The Problem of Whiteness

[1972 Grad]

You see what you want to see.

Looks like Jim Brown in his football helmet.

 

[volprof]

LOL @ "serious archeologists". I think you mean white supremacists.

Google "Olmec heads" and look at them. So you deny those are black people?

I don't need an archeologist to tell me what a black man looks like. Those are gigantic black heads that were found in Central America. In fact the features are super negroid with extremely wide noses, thick lips, and kinky hair. No confusing them with anyone else.

White supremacy just can't fathom black people came to the Americas before Europeans so they refuse to believe evidence stating right at them.

You need to put down the critical race theory and Internet loon theory for a bit.

I had never heard of the Olmec heads, and after looking at them, I can't believe you consider this proof. Further many Central Americans have wider noses and lips as well. Many of them also have huge derrieres. Please don't tell me this is from Sub-Saharan African intermixture dating back to nearly 1000 BCE.

Further, are you seriously suggesting that it's "indisputable fact" that Ham, a man who most likely never even existed, was the father of the black race?

I just can't even. What?

 

[Vol8188]

Who do the Olmec heads look like then?

I don't need a white person to tell me that is a black man's face and features.

Then don't ask a white person, dumbass.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You see what you want to see.

One Native American with a wide nose doesn't of all of a sudden make the entire population negroid. There are some Jews I know with noses wider than most black people. That doesn't make all white people wide nosed.

Its funny how thick lips and wide noses were used for so long to denigrate black people. But then once giant heads with negroid features are found in the ground in Central America suddenly those features have nothing to do with black people and rather white supremacists scour the internet for outlier images to support their agenda.

Just know when those heads were first pulled out of the ground the European who found them thought they were BLACK.

 

[volprof]

Looks like Jim Brown in his football helmet.

I know I don't typically say this, but thank you for providing that image.

It's further confirmation of what I said about Central American peoples above.

To have the audacity to think that these stone heads are "black people" from Africa is a ethno-narcissism of the highest order. It is also a complete slight to the actual peoples of this region, replicating the same systems of power and cultural erasure of which Dobbs 4 Heisman accuses white Euro-American culture.

 

[volprof]

One Native American with a wide nose doesn't of all of a sudden make the entire population negroid. There are some Jews I know with noses wider than most black people. That doesn't make all white people wide nosed.

Its funny how thick lips and wide noses were used for so long to denigrate black people. But then once giant heads with negroid features are found in the ground in Central America suddenly those have nothing to do with black people and white supremacists scour the net for outlier images to support their agenda.

Just know when those heads were first pulled out of the ground the European who found them thought they were BLACK.

That European was not very bright then, and neither are you.

It's almost as if you want Trump to start a race war.

 

[Orange_Crush]

One Native American with a wide nose doesn't of all of a sudden make the entire population negroid. There are some Jews I know with noses wider than most black people. That doesn't make all white people wide nosed.

Its funny how thick lips and wide noses were used for so long to denigrate black people. But then once giant heads with negroid features are found in the ground in Central America suddenly those have nothing to do with black people and white supremacists scour the net for outlier images to support their agenda.

Just know when those heads were first pulled out of the ground the European who found them thought they were BLACK.

I never said that one Central American was negroid. You did. I said he was Central American, with wide nose and lips, so it makes sense that ancient cultures, which would have obviously included non-negroid citizens with wide noses and lips, could have made scultures of people with wide noses and lips without the need for them to be negroid.

If it's a combination of traits seen in the native population, it negates the need for African influence as an answer.

This is simple critical thinking, D4H.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You need to put down the critical race theory and Internet loon theory for a bit.

I had never heard of the Olmec heads, and after looking at them, I can't believe you consider this proof. Further many Central Americans have wider noses and lips as well. Many of them also have huge derrieres. Please don't tell me this is from Sub-Saharan African intermixture dating back to nearly 1000 BCE.

Further, are you seriously suggesting that it's "indisputable fact" that Ham, a man who most likely never even existed, was the father of the black race?

I just can't even. What?

No. Obviously not.

The point is that people in the Ancient world considered Egypt and Ethiopia as brothers. As both being black.

The story is obviously allegorical. But allegories have to align with reality. If the Ancient Egyptians weren't black it would make no sense to Ancient man to be told they were brothers born from the same father.

 

[tumscalcium]

Could it be possible that people hundreds of years ago who may not have ever seen all the people from around the world (it's not like there were pictures, tv, internet, etc...) just assumed that if people were darker than them they appeared black. Just like if someone was lighter they were just white? Could it be possible people hundreds of years ago just lumped others into the same race? Hey, they look black. Hey, those guys look white?

 

[Orange_Crush]

No. Obviously not.

The point is that people in the Ancient world considered Egypt and Ethiopia as brothers. As both being black.

The story is obviously allegorical. But allegories have to align with reality. If the Ancient Egyptians weren't black it would make no sense to Ancient man to be told they were brothers born from the same father.

You know, a non-racist may see the story, consider that we're all from the same stock in Noah (we're all brothers), and stop trying to build any x-supremecist agenda. Just a thought there, broseph.

 

[1972 Grad]

I know I don't typically say this, but thank you for providing that image.

It's further confirmation of what I said about Central American peoples above.

To have the audacity to think that these stone heads are "black people" from Africa is a ethno-narcissism of the highest order. It is also a complete slight to the actual peoples of this region, replicating the same systems of power and cultural erasure of which Dobbs 4 Heisman accuses white Euro-American culture.

I have to agree with you on this, but none of this "discussion" makes one iota of difference in my life. I don't give a rat's ass who it looks like or what it means.

 

[Vol8188]

Who do the Olmec heads look like then?

I don't need a white person to tell me that is a black man's face and features.

"Both the Olmecs and West Africans have short flat noses because they lived in wet tropical areas....these same traits are seen in Eastern Asian and Pacific populations also".

It's a great read. It talks about how your hero attempts to rob native cultures of their accomplishments and claim them as the accomplishments of black people.
http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/current/vansertima.pdf

 

[Orange_Crush]

I have to agree with you on this, but none of this "discussion" makes one iota of difference in my life. I don't give a rat's ass who it looks like or what it means.

Same here. I couldn't care less if Africans sailed here in pre-Columbian days. Actually, I'd think it a pretty cool pre-historical factoid.

With that said... D4H may be the biggest racist I've ever interacted with, and I actually worked with a Klan member 20 years or so ago. Creepy dude. Kept my distance from that one. Had nothing on D4H.

 

[Vol8188]

Same here. I couldn't care less is Africans sailed here in pre-Columbian days. Actually, I'd think it a pretty cool pre-historical factoid.

With that said... D4H may be the biggest racist I've ever interacted with, and I actually worked with a Klan member 20 years or so ago. Creepy dude. Kept my distance from that one. Had nothing of D4H.

They didn't. It's psuedo science because he doesn't understand that people living in similar conditions will adopt similar traits without being in anyway genetically the same people.

 

[JoeKyleVol]

The Canaanites, such as the Philistines, are also listed in the Bible as descendants of Ham. The Philistines are originally from Crete, of Minoan descent. Thus, not every descendant of Ham is meant to be understood as an "African."

The Bible's history is also "legendary and mythic" and is basically ancient propaganda. By making Egypt and Canaan the descendants of Ham (the accursed son of Noah), it was a way of making the Israelites, sons of Shem, to be viewed as superior. Saying they were the sons of Ham was a way to cast them as enemies of Yahweh. We see this in other parts of the Bible where the Moabites and Ammonites, both enemies of Israel, are presented as descendants of an incestuous union between Lot and his daughters. It was a way of saying other nations were inbred hicks. So, the Bible saying Mizraim, Kush, and Canaan are descendants of Ham is not at all a postive thing.

Again, the Bible's account is also "legendary-mythic history" that is not meant to be taken seriously. It would make sense to have the peoples of Egypt and Ethiopia be from the same son of Noah since their nations are right next to each other. That doesn't mean they are considered to be the same race.

Even among modern Young-Earth Creationists, there is the idea that Shem, Ham, and Japeth were genetically diverse to provide for all the races on the Earth.

Of course, this must all be white supremacy, and even if black scholars agree, it's also white supremacy. So, there's basically no way to be "right" unless you agree with D4H and confirm his cherished beliefs to make him feel better about himself.

 

[volprof]

Could it be possible that people hundreds of years ago who may not have ever seen all the people from around the world (it's not like there were pictures, tv, internet, etc...) just assumed that if people were darker than them they appeared black. Just like if someone was lighter they were just white? Could it be possible people hundreds of years ago just lumped others into the same race? Hey, they look black. Hey, those guys look white?

I agree. This is the primary reason I think the theory that the ancient Egyptians were black Sub-Saharan Africans north of the Sahara falls flat. I don't doubt that such people were among Egypt's demographics, but I do not believe they were the "power establishment," the decision-makers and power brokers of ancient Egypt, as Dobbs suggests.

I think we see this phenomenon - associating art with racial demographics - in ancient Greece as well. Grecian urns often portray "black men," but that's largely because darkness is associated with masculinity and hardness in the ancient Greek mind. Not because black men were actually warriors and/or leaders in ancient Greece.

 

[Vol8188]

I love the "if you disagree with me, you're a white supremacist".

 

[1972 Grad]

The Canaanites, such as the Philistines, are also listed in the Bible as descendants of Ham. The Philistines are originally from Crete, of Minoan descent. Thus, not every descendant of Ham is meant to be understood as an "African."

The Bible's history is also "legendary and mythic" and is basically ancient propaganda. By making Egypt and Canaan the descendants of Ham (the accursed son of Noah), it was a way of making the Israelites, sons of Shem, to be viewed as superior. Saying they were the sons of Ham was a way to cast them as enemies of Yahweh. We see this in other parts of the Bible where the Moabites and Ammonites, both enemies of Israel, are presented as descendants of an incestuous union between Lot and his daughters. It was a way of saying other nations were inbred hicks. So, the Bible saying Mizraim, Kush, and Canaan are descendants of Ham is not at all a postive thing.

Again, the Bible's account is also "legendary-mythic history" that is not meant to be taken seriously. It would make sense to have the peoples of Egypt and Ethiopia be from the same son of Noah since their nations are right next to each other. That doesn't mean they are considered to be the same race.

Even among modern Young-Earth Creationists, there is the idea that Shem, Ham, and Japeth were genetically diverse to provide for all the races on the Earth.

Of course, this must all be white supremacy, and even if black scholars agree, it's also white supremacy. So, there's basically no way to be "right" unless you agree with D4H and confirm his cherished beliefs to make him feel better about himself.

Therein lies the problem. He has an inferiority complex. He admitted to not liking his blackness when he was young. He still can't really accept it.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Yes.

Arabic and Hebrew are considered Afro-Asiatic languages. Most closely related to languages spoken in Ethiopia and Somalia.

The original speakers of Arabic and Hebrew were black.

In other words, there is no such thing as an Arab, Arabic, or Islamic. Just different derivatives of black.

 

[Vol8188]

I agree. This is the primary reason I think the theory that the ancient Egyptians were black Sub-Saharan Africans north of the Sahara falls flat. I don't doubt that such people were among Egypt's demographics, but I do not believe they were the "power establishment," the decision-makers and power brokers of ancient Egypt, as Dobbs suggests.

I think we see this phenomenon - associating art with racial demographics - in ancient Greece as well. Grecian urns often portray "black men," but that's largely because darkness is associated with masculinity and hardness in the ancient Greek mind. Not because black men were actually warriors and/or leaders in ancient Greece.

Most things I've read show their genetics being more similar to middle easterners than africans

 

[volprof]

"Both the Olmecs and West Africans have short flat noses because they lived in wet tropical areas....these same traits are seen in Eastern Asian and Pacific populations also".

It's a great read. It talks about how your hero attempts to rob native cultures of their accomplishments and claim them as the accomplishments of black people.
http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/current/vansertima.pdf

Dobbs has evidently also never seen an East African.

If they had stone statues of themselves from ancient times, the white racialist equivalent of Dobbs would be claiming that it was proof that white people - with narrow noses and narrow faces had actually been the first inhabitants of Africa.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Dobbs has evidently also never seen an East African.

If they had stone statues of themselves from ancient times, the white racialist equivalent of Dobbs would be claiming that it was proof that white people - with narrow noses and narrow faces had actually been the first inhabitants of Africa.

Proof positive the ancient Egyptians were white nerds:

 

[YorkVol]

We end when white people stop pretending it doesn't exist and work to destroy its vistages in society. Right now most white people like yourself deny it even exists thus not even getting us to the point of how to end it.

I made a long list once before on how to end white supremacy. The digest version is this. First, give all descendants of slavery and colonialism reparations. Second, create specialized education targeted to black children for black pride and empowerment. Third, transfer 50% of the control of all mass media to people of color. That way we can now start controlling our potroyal in the media.

That's just the appetizer. There's alot more that needs to be done to fix the damage white supremacy caused.

Minorities already control mass media, just saying.

 

[Vol8188]

Minorities already control mass media, just saying.

Here's the great thing about America, if you want to control the media, do it. Start your own news paper.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Minorities already control mass media, just saying.

By his reasoning in other posts, they are not just minorities, but actually blacks.