The Official Lakers Thread

#1,660
#1,660
GahLee said:
Chris Paul and David West are every bit as good as Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp.
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I think CP3 is on Payton's level, but West's prime is nowhere near what Kemp was in his prime, IMO. Hornets were an underrated team, though.
 
#1,662
#1,662
GahLee said:
How so?
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Kemp vs West?

In Kemp's prime he was a good defender and great rebounder. He scored around 20 ppg and his efficiency was elite.

In West's prime he was an OK defender and rebounder. He scored around 20 ppg and his efficiency was good.
 
#1,663
#1,663
n_huffhines said:
Kemp vs West?

In Kemp's prime he was a good defender and great rebounder. He scored around 20 ppg and his efficiency was elite.

In West's prime he was an OK defender and rebounder. He scored around 20 ppg and his efficiency was good.
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What a joke. First off, the defense comment has is laughable. Not the statement itself. Just you saying it as if you studied the nuances of their defensive prowess. Instead, you just looked at blocks and steals.

Secondly. Saying that one guy was a "great rebounder" in his prime and the other was "OK" in his when the difference is 2 rebounds per game is so you.

They (Paul and West) were every bit as good as Payton and Kemp, a few rebounds and percentage points in shooting means nothing.
 
#1,664
#1,664
GahLee said:
What a joke. First off, the defense comment has is laughable. Not the statement itself. Just you saying it as if you studied the nuances of their defensive prowess. Instead, you just looked at blocks and steals.

Secondly. Saying that one guy was a "great rebounder" in his prime and the other was "OK" in his when the difference is 2 rebounds per game is so you.

They (Paul and West) were every bit as good as Payton and Kemp, a few rebounds and percentage points in shooting means nothing.
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Kemp was my favorite player when I was in HS. I watched him play D. Do you just feel like arguing, or are you saying West is as good on D?

West did 8.9 rpg once....if his prime is one season, then sure, the margin is only 2. West has only done 7.8+ rpg 3 times in his career. Not impressive at all. Kemp did 10+ rpg 6 times.

Kemp was almost 40% more productive on the glass for his career. That's a huge difference.
 
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#1,665
#1,665
n_huffhines said:
Kemp was my favorite player when I was in HS. I watched him play D. Do you just feel like arguing, or are you saying West is as good on D?

West did 8.9 rpg once....if his prime is one season, then sure, the margin is only 2. West has only done 7.8+ rpg 3 times in his career. Not impressive at all. Kemp did 10+ rpg 6 times.

Kemp was almost 40% more productive on the glass for his career. That's a huge difference.
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It's all about how you try to frame an argument with numbers. It's absurd.

10 rebounds vs 8 rebounds is not that big of a difference, certainly not "elite" and "ok".
 
#1,666
#1,666
I'll try to argue in a way more pleasing to your preferences next time.

10 vs 8 is a 25% increase, so yeah it's a big difference. I suppose you don't think hitting .350 vs .280 is a big difference (25% increase)? One problem is it's not 10 vs 8. West struggled to get 8 a few times and Kemp easily did 10, even 11.
 
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#1,668
#1,668
n_huffhines said:
I'll try to argue in a way more pleasing to your preferences next time.

10 vs 8 is a 25% increase, so yeah it's a big difference. I suppose you don't think hitting .350 vs .280 is a big difference (25% increase)? One problem is it's not 10 vs 8. West struggled to get 8 a few times and Kemp easily did 10, even 11.
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The point is that the difference between the two duo's is marginal at best, which ever side you take.
 
#1,669
#1,669
005 said:
I would take Payton and Kemp over Paul and West forever.
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And that's fine. I'm not against someone saying they like that pairing more than the other. I'm saying it's close. The original comment stemmed from whatever his name is saying that Scott has significantly less to work with than Karl. Which is blatantly false.
 
#1,670
#1,670
GahLee said:
The point is that the difference between the two duo's is marginal at best, which ever side you take.
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But my point is that it's not a marginal difference. CP3 is a better offensive player than Glove, but Payton has him on D. At career's end, I'll probably be taking CP3 by a small margin.

Kemp vs West is no contest. He's unquestionably better at scoring, defense, and rebounding. With a more detailed focus, the only thing I can think of that West does better is his pivot game and he was a better ballhandler.
 
#1,671
#1,671
n_huffhines said:
But my point is that it's not a marginal difference. CP3 is a better offensive player than Glove, but Payton has him on D. At career's end, I'll probably be taking CP3 by a small margin.

Kemp vs West is no contest. He's unquestionably better at scoring, defense, and rebounding. With a more detailed focus, the only thing I can think of that West does better is his pivot game and he was a better ballhandler.
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Kemp's prime years with Seattle amounted to 18 ppg, 10 rpg and a low 50's shooting percentage.

West's prime years with New Orleans amounted to 19 ppg, 8 rpg and about 50% shooting.

Explain how there is such a disparity.
 
#1,672
#1,672
GahLee said:
Kemp's prime years with Seattle amounted to 18 ppg, 10 rpg and a low 50's shooting percentage.

West's prime years with New Orleans amounted to 19 ppg, 8 rpg and about 50% shooting.

Explain how there is such a disparity.
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True shooting %. FG% is a misleading stat cause it doesn't account for FT and 3 pt efficiency.

Kemp's TS% last 4 years in Seattle:
.593
.610
.631
.583

West's TS% his best 4 years in New Orleans:
.540
.554
.560
.558

These are pretty big margins. League average for a PF was .539 this year. So West's best season was only .021 better than that and Kemp's best was .071 better than West's best. Kemp also shot .578 and .567, so 6 seasons better than West's best.
 
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