The Official 2nd Amendment Appreciation Thread

[InVOLuntary]

Not unavailable, but not easy to find if you use Walmart as your guide.

300 AAC Blackout Ammo | SGAmmo.com

It's a niche round that has some advantages as InVol explained. But as an overall alternative to the .223/5.56, there are others that outperform it like the 6.8 and 6.5. The downside of those two is the incompatibility of mags and bolts. Upside is you get a whole lot more range.

The only reason I built mine was to shoot suppressed. It is really quiet. Check out some of the videos. It's cool.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Yuck. Well, I guess that makes sense, though, given I'm guessing fairly low supply in comparison to 5.56.

I don't know if you've ever used Ammoseek.com it's a listing service that shows you the whole has the best prices on ammo. After a brief search it looks like 300BO is running about 50 cents a round. Reloads for about 40 cents. Compare that to 223/556 at a little over 30 cents a round.

 

[volinbham]

Range report on Walther CCP and Sig P225.

I shot the CCP as good or better than the Sig. The SRT on the Sig is pretty amazing. I have it on my 226. Not quite at the PPQ level but close. That said, I was as accurate with the CCP which has virtually no reset (in the bad way) and a bit of a grabby trigger - you just don't notice when shooting.

Didn't notice a reduction in recoil with the CCP but it wasn't bad.

For a first shoot I go right out of the box without cleaning - just want to see how it does with the factory gunk in there.

CCP had some hiccups. Mostly FTF with not going fully into battery (quick push on the back solved it) and not feeding at all (less common). Had one extraction failure that was nearly a jam. Had to drop the mag and really crank on the slide to get it open.

Overall I ran about 200 rounds through the CCP. Had roughly 4 failure to go into full battery, 2 FTF and one extraction error. In addition I had 3 or 4 instances where it went into battery but very slowly. It kinda stopped about 1/2 inch from full battery then eased itself closed.

Tried WWB 115, Freedom (reman)115, 124, 147, ZERO (reload) 115 (the jam source) and Hornaday Critical Duty (25 no failures).

Had more failures when going 8+1 vs 8 only. Probably had about 7-9 total out of 200 rounds. Too many for sure.

Turns out I have an early version and Walther has made some changes since. Heading back this week to try again after cleaning.

Had one hiccup with the Sig. - FTF with an 8+1. Can't recall which ammo.

Hope the Walther cleans up it's act - love the gun but don't want an unreliable rig.

 

[VolAllen]

Range report on Walther CCP and Sig P225.

I shot the CCP as good or better than the Sig. The SRT on the Sig is pretty amazing. I have it on my 226. Not quite at the PPQ level but close. That said, I was as accurate with the CCP which has virtually no reset (in the bad way) and a bit of a grabby trigger - you just don't notice when shooting.

Didn't notice a reduction in recoil with the CCP but it wasn't bad.

For a first shoot I go right out of the box without cleaning - just want to see how it does with the factory gunk in there.

CCP had some hiccups. Mostly FTF with not going fully into battery (quick push on the back solved it) and not feeding at all (less common). Had one extraction failure that was nearly a jam. Had to drop the mag and really crank on the slide to get it open.

Overall I ran about 200 rounds through the CCP. Had roughly 4 failure to go into full battery, 2 FTF and one extraction error. In addition I had 3 or 4 instances where it went into battery but very slowly. It kinda stopped about 1/2 inch from full battery then eased itself closed.

Tried WWB 115, Freedom (reman)115, 124, 147, ZERO (reload) 115 (the jam source) and Hornaday Critical Duty (25 no failures).

Had more failures when going 8+1 vs 8 only. Probably had about 7-9 total out of 200 rounds. Too many for sure.

Turns out I have an early version and Walther has made some changes since. Heading back this week to try again after cleaning.

Had one hiccup with the Sig. - FTF with an 8+1. Can't recall which ammo.

Hope the Walther cleans up it's act - love the gun but don't want an unreliable rig.

Exactly why I don't have any newer Walthers. All of them were unreliable as hell. My 65 Ppk has never missed a beat, nor have my Bersas.

 

[volinbham]

Exactly why I don't have any newer Walthers. All of them were unreliable as hell. My 65 Ppk has never missed a beat, nor have my Bersas.

I bought my PPQ used and it has zero failures. Best shooting gun I have bar none. I don't think Walther as a brand has a problem. Some CCPs have had problems and I'm hoping I don't have one of the duds but overall I think the brand is fine.

I hope to hell mine works out - it is a perfect fit. Worst comes to worst I'll sell it and get a newer version.

 

[vol_in_ar]

My dream rifle! I want a walnut stock with octagonal barrel , iron sights, I already have the sling I made for when I convince Lil momma I need to buy it.

My great grandfather carried one as a mounted sheriff in Canton Ohio. I have his Marlin model 19 16 gauge pump where the entire bolt slides back to your nose with a hammer, I'll never shoot it but it is still safe and in decent condition, my dad has his horseback scabbard that held both the shotgun and rifle. The shotgun was sold by Abercrombie and fitch, along with his green river fighting knife, I could only imagine how badass my great grandfather was keeping the peace on horseback in Ohio.

His knife has a ebony handle with very aggressive checkering that wouldn't slip out your hand without taking skin with it, I have yet to replicate the checkering, working on a cnc program to cut it into scales for knives I make.

Great History there, hope you get the 45/70 soon

 

[Grand Vol]

I bought my PPQ used and it has zero failures. Best shooting gun I have bar none. I don't think Walther as a brand has a problem. Some CCPs have had problems and I'm hoping I don't have one of the duds but overall I think the brand is fine.

I hope to hell mine works out - it is a perfect fit. Worst comes to worst I'll sell it and get a newer version.

I consider used firearms like divorced women. Either:

A. They are waiting for someone to treat them right.

B. Or someone got tired of their **** and got rid of them.

It's not scientific, but the logic is generally sound.

 

[C1500]

I consider used firearms like divorced women. Either:

A. They are waiting for someone to treat them right.

B. Or someone got tired of their **** and got rid of them.

It's not scientific, but the logic is generally sound.

Never thought about it this way. I like it! lol

 

[InVOLuntary]

Ok, Grand.

You have me intrigued about this 6.8 SPC. I have two lowers I purchased that I need to do something with. A few questions:

You mentioned earlier the 6.8 used a different bolt. I'd probably just purchase a hole dedicated BCG. Are there they available or do I need to convert a 556?

From what I've read, the regular 556 mags will work but they're not the best. Do you know of a mag that is specifically designed for the 6.8? I've read these would become available eventually.

Do they make subsonic rounds for the 6.8? I have purchased a can and would like for it to work with all my ARs.

Ammo seems to run about $1 per round, is this typical? This is significantly higher higher than the $.50 round of the 300Bo.

Other than the bolt and barrel, any other differences in the basic mil-spec AR?

TIA

 

[Grand Vol]

Ok, Grand.

You have me intrigued about this 6.8 SPC. I have two lowers I purchased that I need to do something with. A few questions:

You mentioned earlier the 6.8 used a different bolt. I'd probably just purchase a hole dedicated BCG. Are there they available or do I need to convert a 556?

I just used a standard BCG and got a 6.8 specific bolt.

From what I've read, the regular 556 mags will work but they're not the best. Do you know of a mag that is specifically designed for the 6.8? I've read these would become available eventually.

Yes, I would personally recommend the PRI magazines designed for the 6.8 and pick them up from Brownells

Do they make subsonic rounds for the 6.8? I have purchased a can and would like for it to work with all my ARs.

Don't know about subsonic ammo, but I've never seen a factory load that's subsonic.

Ammo seems to run about $1 per round, is this typical? This is significantly higher higher than the $.50 round of the 300Bo.

The Sellier & Beliot FMJ loads run around $0.65 a round. The Remington green box FMJ loads run about $0.75 a round in bulk.

Most of your premium ammo runs around a buck a shot.

Other than the bolt and barrel, any other differences in the basic mil-spec AR?

I'd run a mid length gas system myself and a minimum of an H2 buffer. Springco Blue and all that. Of course, you can run the same setup for a 5.56 AR, so it is cost neutral.

TIA

Answers above. I'll also add the nice thing about 6.8 barrels is the thread pitch for the muzzle device is typically 5/8x24, so you can use any .30 caliber device with the same effectiveness. I tossed a PWS brake on mine and never looked back.

It's designed for 16 inch barrels so you don't have to worry about barrel length and ballistics like you would with a 6.5 Grendel. And plenty of mainstream companies produce rounds from FMJ up to AMAX and bonded softpoint. Round selection shouldn't be a problem.

The 6.8 is a nice fill between the 5.56 and 7.62 in terms of capabilities. Not as accurate at range as the 6.5G, but plenty fine for hunting applications.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Answers above. I'll also add the nice thing about 6.8 barrels is the thread pitch for the muzzle device is typically 5/8x24, so you can use any .30 caliber device with the same effectiveness. I tossed a PWS brake on mine and never looked back.

It's designed for 16 inch barrels so you don't have to worry about barrel length and ballistics like you would with a 6.5 Grendel. And plenty of mainstream companies produce rounds from FMJ up to AMAX and bonded softpoint. Round selection shouldn't be a problem.

The 6.8 is a nice fill between the 5.56 and 7.62 in terms of capabilities. Not as accurate at range as the 6.5G, but plenty fine for hunting applications.

Thanks Grand. I appreciate all your advice. If you look back I started all this back in the spring by just wanting to change my old carry handle upper to a flat top. Learned that a 10.5" barrel is a big no no. Ended up building a pistol because of that. Since I've built a several including a 300BO. Not an expert by any means but thanks to you and others, I've learned quite a bit.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

For those who may have interest in concealed carry; you can get the carry laws from any state you want from this link.

USCCA | Defend Yourself

 

[VolAllen]

Range report on Walther CCP and Sig P225.

I shot the CCP as good or better than the Sig. The SRT on the Sig is pretty amazing. I have it on my 226. Not quite at the PPQ level but close. That said, I was as accurate with the CCP which has virtually no reset (in the bad way) and a bit of a grabby trigger - you just don't notice when shooting.

Didn't notice a reduction in recoil with the CCP but it wasn't bad.

For a first shoot I go right out of the box without cleaning - just want to see how it does with the factory gunk in there.

CCP had some hiccups. Mostly FTF with not going fully into battery (quick push on the back solved it) and not feeding at all (less common). Had one extraction failure that was nearly a jam. Had to drop the mag and really crank on the slide to get it open.

Overall I ran about 200 rounds through the CCP. Had roughly 4 failure to go into full battery, 2 FTF and one extraction error. In addition I had 3 or 4 instances where it went into battery but very slowly. It kinda stopped about 1/2 inch from full battery then eased itself closed.

Tried WWB 115, Freedom (reman)115, 124, 147, ZERO (reload) 115 (the jam source) and Hornaday Critical Duty (25 no failures).

Had more failures when going 8+1 vs 8 only. Probably had about 7-9 total out of 200 rounds. Too many for sure.

Turns out I have an early version and Walther has made some changes since. Heading back this week to try again after cleaning.

Had one hiccup with the Sig. - FTF with an 8+1. Can't recall which ammo.

Hope the Walther cleans up it's act - love the gun but don't want an unreliable rig.

I went by the local gun store today and saw a PPS M2. Dude that thing was SWEET. They also had a grayish CCP that I held, but I think I liked the new PPS a little more. I still have my reservations about the reliability so please buy one and let me know how it is

 

[LouderVol]

Unless it's on backlog I should have my FAL next week, I am really excited.

I have some general questions as a new gun owner.

General storage and transportation.

1. This seems really dumb but is it OK to keep a magazine (empty) in while storing or keep it empty if not in use?
2. I am going to travel across a lot of southern state lines with it, anything to know about that? Or a good rule of thumb for safe transportation?
3. Suggested methods of transport? The gun comes with a hard case, I figure I am buying bulk ammo that comes in it own box. Is it worth getting a better "box" than what it comes with? Should the ammo be locked up? Should I carry all the misc. Stuff in one bag or is it best to keep things separated as much as possible?

Gun/round questions.

4. What I got is a 308 Winchester, why is Winchester specified? Is it any different than any other 308?
5. The extra magazines I ordered say 308 winchester metric. I know they go with the gun but why does it say metric? I thought it was the American round?
6. This goes with the last question too, I know the 308 is basically the 7.62x51 round. How close are they? Will my gun chamber a 7.62, will it chamber a 7.62 any different? Or is it worth just sticking to a round sold as a 308?
7. When I get the gun is there any thing I should do first? Bham mentioned cleaning factory gunk out. I figure I can start there and get some familiarity with the gun before I go shooting.


General maintenance:
8. I figure it gets cleaned after every shooting, is it also like a car where it is a good idea to "check the battery" if I don't use it for a while?
9. Another really dumb question. Is there a preferred cleaning kit? For rifles vs pistol?

10. Ear and eye protection I know about, anything else to get? I figure I will do ear muffs and plugs firing a big round.

Sorry for the battery of questions. I have googled most of these and gotten a barrage of information and just had information overload. I will also be sure to read the owners manual before starting, some answers might be there.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Unless it's on backlog I should have my FAL next week, I am really excited.

I have some general questions as a new gun owner.

General storage and transportation.

1. This seems really dumb but is it OK to keep a magazine (empty) in while storing or keep it empty if not in use?
2. I am going to travel across a lot of southern state lines with it, anything to know about that? Or a good rule of thumb for safe transportation?
3. Suggested methods of transport? The gun comes with a hard case, I figure I am buying bulk ammo that comes in it own box. Is it worth getting a better "box" than what it comes with? Should the ammo be locked up? Should I carry all the misc. Stuff in one bag or is it best to keep things separated as much as possible?

Gun/round questions.

4. What I got is a 308 Winchester, why is Winchester specified? Is it any different than any other 308?
5. The extra magazines I ordered say 308 winchester metric. I know they go with the gun but why does it say metric? I thought it was the American round?
6. This goes with the last question too, I know the 308 is basically the 7.62x51 round. How close are they? Will my gun chamber a 7.62, will it chamber a 7.62 any different? Or is it worth just sticking to a round sold as a 308?
7. When I get the gun is there any thing I should do first? Bham mentioned cleaning factory gunk out. I figure I can start there and get some familiarity with the gun before I go shooting.


General maintenance:
8. I figure it gets cleaned after every shooting, is it also like a car where it is a good idea to "check the battery" if I don't use it for a while?
9. Another really dumb question. Is there a preferred cleaning kit? For rifles vs pistol?

10. Ear and eye protection I know about, anything else to get? I figure I will do ear muffs and plugs firing a big round.

Sorry for the battery of questions. I have googled most of these and gotten a barrage of information and just had information overload. I will also be sure to read the owners manual before starting, some answers might be there.

1. Yes
2. Not really
3. Look for some USGI .30 cans at the next gun show. Should be about $6. Good gaskets and make taking ammo to the range easy.
4. Winchester invented the round
5. Might be an indication it will work for 7.62 ammo
6. Rounds will chamber the same.
7. Find a YouTube video on how to at least field strip the rifle. Taking it down to a pile of parts is up to you and your abilities. I do think it's important to know how parts interact in order to isolate and address problems.
8. Unless you're shooting crossive ammo a wipe down of the bore after the range is good. Things like gas systems should be rarely cleaned. They are made to go lots of rounds without maintenance.
9. Lots of opinions on this. To me bore snake is fine for light duty. Lots of people swear by one piece rods for rifles. CLP and brake cleaner are about all I use. Light grease may be suggested where metal contacts metal.
10. You should wear eyes and ears firing any round. A case failure in a small caliber gun could just as easily send brass or copper jacket towards your face. Understand you are operating a machine that produces pressures of 60,000 psi six inches from your eyes. Safety is the main thing. If you have never owned or fired a gun I would suggest either taking a class or going to the range with someone who is knowledgable.

 

[InVOLuntary]

1. Yes
2. Not really
3. Look for some USGI .30 cans at the next gun show. Should be about $6. Good gaskets and make taking ammo to the range easy.
4. Winchester invented the round
5. Might be an indication it will work for 7.62 ammo
6. Rounds will chamber the same.
7. Find a YouTube video on how to at least field strip the rifle. Taking it down to a pile of parts is up to you and your abilities. I do think it's important to know how parts interact in order to isolate and address problems.
8. Unless you're shooting crossive ammo a wipe down of the bore after the range is good. Things like gas systems should be rarely cleaned. They are made to go lots of rounds without maintenance.
9. Lots of opinions on this. To me bore snake is fine for light duty. Lots of people swear by one piece rods for rifles. CLP and brake cleaner are about all I use. Light grease may be suggested where metal contacts metal.
10. You should wear eyes and ears firing any round. A case failure in a small caliber gun could just as easily send brass or copper jacket towards your face. Understand you are operating a machine that produces pressures of 60,000 psi six inches from your eyes. Safety is the main thing. If you have never owned or fired a gun I would suggest either taking a class or going to the range with someone who is knowledgable.

This for sure. There are unwritten range protocols that having someone with experience help you with. If you have little experience with firearms, find someone that does, buy them lunch, and take them with you.

 

[volinbham]

I went by the local gun store today and saw a PPS M2. Dude that thing was SWEET. They also had a grayish CCP that I held, but I think I liked the new PPS a little more. I still have my reservations about the reliability so please buy one and let me know how it is

I don't think there are any issues with the PPS.

My CCP is waiting a return call from Walther to go in for repair. 2nd range trip was a disaster. Hope they can fix it because I love it (assuming it works).

 

[volinbham]

Question about doing a trigger swap. I purchased the short reach trigger (not the short reset trigger - already had that) for my Sig 225.

Online videos show a pretty straight forward approach for swapping.

Is this something I should attempt or is it gunsmith level work for safety/warranty?

 

[VolAllen]

I don't think there are any issues with the PPS.

My CCP is waiting a return call from Walther to go in for repair. 2nd range trip was a disaster. Hope they can fix it because I love it (assuming it works).

Daaamn what happened on the 2nd trip??

 

[InVOLuntary]

question for Grand.

Been reading up on the 6.8 in particular the barrel. I am awaiting a tax stamp on a suppressor. If I build the 6.8 I would like to be able to use it suppressed. From what I call tell most 6.8 barrels have a twist rate of 1:10. One site says that they don't recommend shooting the 6.8 suppressed in a 1:10 barrel because of potential for bullet tumble. they make a 6.8 barrel with 1:7 twist that they claim is best suited for shooting suppressed.

What are your thoughts on twist rates for the 6.8?

What would be the downside to a 1:7 TR not shooting suppressed?

 

[volinbham]

Daaamn what happened on the 2nd trip??

what didn't happen - pretty sure the striker spring failed causing most of the problems. Spring isn't broken but it is bent and overly compressed at one end.

Some dirty ammo and a wet gun didn't help.

Worst issues were light strikes (didn't cause fire) and some of those light strikes were off center (one was barely on the primer). Pull trigger, nothing happens, manually eject a cartridge with a tiny dent on the primer.

Had two cases with a delayed fire - pull trigger, wait a second or two, bang! I'm guessing it was a light strike that had a delayed reaction on the primer. This was by far the most dangerous problem.

The too wet was my fault - didn't do my research and the gas system can get gunked up which impacts the slide retraction.

The striker spring (and whatever else is going on) isn't my fault.

Other than that it was great!

 

[volinbham]

Didn't realize the PPS M2 went to the ergo grip - will have to check out if the CCP doesn't get straightened out.

 

[VolAllen]

what didn't happen - pretty sure the striker spring failed causing most of the problems. Spring isn't broken but it is bent and overly compressed at one end.

Some dirty ammo and a wet gun didn't help.

Worst issues were light strikes (didn't cause fire) and some of those light strikes were off center (one was barely on the primer). Pull trigger, nothing happens, manually eject a cartridge with a tiny dent on the primer.

Had two cases with a delayed fire - pull trigger, wait a second or two, bang! I'm guessing it was a light strike that had a delayed reaction on the primer. This was by far the most dangerous problem.

The too wet was my fault - didn't do my research and the gas system can get gunked up which impacts the slide retraction.

The striker spring (and whatever else is going on) isn't my fault.

Other than that it was great!

Whew man...that really sucks. Walter should be rebranded as Issues lol. I love the old Ppk's and the history of the brand, but man their new stuff sucks.

 

[KSPVol36]

Unless it's on backlog I should have my FAL next week, I am really excited.

I have some general questions as a new gun owner.

General storage and transportation.

1. This seems really dumb but is it OK to keep a magazine (empty) in while storing or keep it empty if not in use?
2. I am going to travel across a lot of southern state lines with it, anything to know about that? Or a good rule of thumb for safe transportation?
3. Suggested methods of transport? The gun comes with a hard case, I figure I am buying bulk ammo that comes in it own box. Is it worth getting a better "box" than what it comes with? Should the ammo be locked up? Should I carry all the misc. Stuff in one bag or is it best to keep things separated as much as possible?

Gun/round questions.

4. What I got is a 308 Winchester, why is Winchester specified? Is it any different than any other 308?
5. The extra magazines I ordered say 308 winchester metric. I know they go with the gun but why does it say metric? I thought it was the American round?
6. This goes with the last question too, I know the 308 is basically the 7.62x51 round. How close are they? Will my gun chamber a 7.62, will it chamber a 7.62 any different? Or is it worth just sticking to a round sold as a 308?
7. When I get the gun is there any thing I should do first? Bham mentioned cleaning factory gunk out. I figure I can start there and get some familiarity with the gun before I go shooting.


General maintenance:
8. I figure it gets cleaned after every shooting, is it also like a car where it is a good idea to "check the battery" if I don't use it for a while?
9. Another really dumb question. Is there a preferred cleaning kit? For rifles vs pistol?

10. Ear and eye protection I know about, anything else to get? I figure I will do ear muffs and plugs firing a big round.

Sorry for the battery of questions. I have googled most of these and gotten a barrage of information and just had information overload. I will also be sure to read the owners manual before starting, some answers might be there.

Loud,

I'm more of a lurker and just enjoy reading about what firearms other people have. I'm a bit of an enthusiast as are the rest of you, but I'm nowhere near an expert.

Anyway, I teach CCDW classes in KY, and I get question #2 a lot (provided I understood your question). I recommend to my students an app called Legal Heat. It costs a couple dollars or so, but it will provide you the legal requirements for each state in the country, and it even uses tombstone/bullet emojis to represent how friendly states are to other states' licenses.

For the record, I am not affiliated with Legal Heat in any form; it's just my preferred app. There are many others to choose from. Hope that helps.

Stay Safe

 

[VolAllen]

Didn't realize the PPS M2 went to the ergo grip - will have to check out if the CCP doesn't get straightened out.

it was sweet, dude. Seemed easier to conceal than the CCP, IMO.