The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

[cardvolfan]

That was during the Barnes “ill show Them moment”.

It was clear to me he was willing to lose the game to make his point.

I doubt he was willing to lose a game to prove a point. He was begging for someone to step up and help during THIS game. He gave them an opportunity, and no one cashed in.

 

[BruinVol]

.

 

[admiralkerr]

He definitely wasn't trying to lose - just the opposite. He was doing whatever he could to light a spark (spoiler alert - it didn't work). I applaud him for it. Fulky didn't play at the end because he was hurting us out there. He was getting killed on defense and couldn't make his free throws. At least at the end, I believe Barnes would have played him if he had thought he would have helped us. Did playing Pember and Gaines in the first half mean he was willing to lose - maybe. But the way we were playing we were going to lose anyway.

 

[walkenvol]

Trying to lose is tough to confirm but it is nice to have a coach that is comfortable enough in his own skin that results of a single game isn’t the ultimate goal.


I think it was a move where he was saying “if you won’t, I’ll try someone else”


My son asked after the game if Fulky was hurt. I said no and he was so pissed that Barnes didn’t play him the last 5 minutes of the game. Overall it was a message sending kind of game from Barnes and losing was the price to pay for it I guess although I doubt we win either way .

I’m not sure if Fulky’s wrist isn’t hurt from the prior game. Pretty unusual for a 90% free throw shooter to go 3 for 8.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I’m not sure if Fulky’s wrist isn’t hurt from the prior game. Pretty unusual for a 90% free throw shooter to go 3 for 8.

90% is kind of a statistical anomaly. He seems more like a 70-75% guy.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Couple of my thoughts on that game, stayed away because this place got delusional real quick..

1. Really bad formula, no excuses, just saying a lot of things bad occurred in that game...Bama plays that 5 out and their 5 is quicker than Fulky, this was a problem, they routinely matched Jones in ISO against Fulk and took advantage more than we did on the other end. Normally in this scenario we’d go Pons at the 5, however he obviously was in foul trouble until late, at that point you saw how dominant he was that last 10 minutes and how much better our defense was, unfortunately the offense didn’t get better. Also, going small would be best not only with Pons out there but also Springer, obviously he was out with an injury, so now you’re down 2 of the better guys you’d want out there in that matchup.

2. If that wasn’t bad enough, Alabama then proceeds to shoot 20% over their season average from 3...for those of you who follow advanced metrics you know this is something that happens once or twice a year at least, a team gets hot “lucky” and makes more shots than they normally do. The silver lining is that this game occurred in January and not March, hopefully we don’t see that happen too much more.

3. On a similar note, a website called shot quality which is a legitimate trusted source by NBA and college teams maps outs shot quality etc...after this game their model showed that if both teams hit their average percentage based on shot quality that Tennessee wins the game by 8 points. Essentially, Bama shot better than expected from 3 and Tennessee shot worse than expected from all over the court.

4. Give Bama some credit, it’s not a style that is going to win you a ton of games consistently imo, but it’s a style that will win you some games you probably shouldn’t on paper. I’m betting they’ll finish around Top 5 in the league but have some WTF losses too, but again, credit to them as they hit the shots they needed to. Side note: I’m ready for John Petty to be gone.

5. I would have been curious to see Springer healthy, would he have gotten PG minutes and if so how would he have fared? Vescovi struggled (as he does against quick guards) but Keon was even worse, would Springer have been better or struggled too? My hunch is he wouldn’t have been great either, it’s games like that I really miss a Jordan Bone and can’t wait for Kennedy Chandler, we have either of those guys on roster and we win that game IMO.

6. Big picture, if Springer is fine and Tennessee learns some things from this game it’s not a big deal at all, they weren’t ever going to go 25-0. However if they don’t learn anything from this game and just stay status quo they will drop a couple more games along the way they probably shouldn’t.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Couple of my thoughts on that game, stayed away because this place got delusional real quick..

1. Really bad formula, no excuses, just saying a lot of things bad occurred in that game...Bama plays that 5 out and their 5 is quicker than Fulky, this was a problem, they routinely matched Jones in ISO against Fulk and took advantage more than we did on the other end. Normally in this scenario we’d go Pons at the 5, however he obviously was in foul trouble until late, at that point you saw how dominant he was that last 10 minutes and how much better our defense was, unfortunately the offense didn’t get better. Also, going small would be best not only with Pons out there but also Springer, obviously he was out with an injury, so now you’re down 2 of the better guys you’d want out there in that matchup.

2. If that wasn’t bad enough, Alabama then proceeds to shoot 20% over their season average from 3...for those of you who follow advanced metrics you know this is something that happens once or twice a year at least, a team gets hot “lucky” and makes more shots than they normally do. The silver lining is that this game occurred in January and not March, hopefully we don’t see that happen too much more.

3. On a similar note, a website called shot quality which is a legitimate trusted source by NBA and college teams maps outs shot quality etc...after this game their model showed that if both teams hit their average percentage based on shot quality that Tennessee wins the game by 8 points. Essentially, Bama shot better than expected from 3 and Tennessee shot worse than expected from all over the court.

4. Give Bama some credit, it’s not a style that is going to win you a ton of games consistently imo, but it’s a style that will win you some games you probably shouldn’t on paper. I’m betting they’ll finish around Top 5 in the league but have some WTF losses too, but again, credit to them as they hit the shots they needed to. Side note: I’m ready for John Petty to be gone.

5. I would have been curious to see Springer healthy, would he have gotten PG minutes and if so how would he have fared? Vescovi struggled (as he does against quick guards) but Keon was even worse, would Springer have been better or struggled too? My hunch is he wouldn’t have been great either, it’s games like that I really miss a Jordan Bone and can’t wait for Kennedy Chandler, we have either of those guys on roster and we win that game IMO.

6. Big picture, if Springer is fine and Tennessee learns some things from this game it’s not a big deal at all, they weren’t ever going to go 25-0. However if they don’t learn anything from this game and just stay status quo they will drop a couple more games along the way they probably shouldn’t.

Ultimately to me at least despite the Pons foul trouble, Fulky being off and the Springer injury it still came down to number 3. and if that's how we lose, then I can handle it.

I don't want to see poor effort, a game full of bad fouls (ref or player driven), or mental mistakes. Some nights ya shoot bad and the other team doesn't, many a top seed has gone home in March for this very issue.


With his size and motor I'd like to see Gaines get more looks as a 4. I know he's not as explosive as Pons, but I feel like in these random matchups with teams that play the 5 out I think Pons/Gaines could stay with the "bigs" of the other teams better than Fulkerson/EJ. And 6'7" with his wingspan I feel like Gaines has potential, he could also be a problem on offense since he seems to have the ability to drive past slower defenders.

My biggest complaint I guess with the team and it's not me calling him out, but I really would have liked to see James force the issue offensively a bit more. He often had the best matchup on that end and with Springer out him pushing for another 4-6 shots and take it to his guy could have forced Alabama to play a bit differently.

 

[walkenvol]

I’m with you on Petty - seems like he goes unconscious against us every time

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I’m with you on Petty - seems like he goes unconscious against us every time

What's crazy is last year we played them in February and Pons stayed on Petty most the game. Petty was 37.5% from field and 25% from 3 with just 8 points.

He's had 2 great games against us, and in both cases it was just a hot shooting night from 3 that seemed to be the catalyst for it. (all 3 games he scored big on us he was 60% or better from 3)

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Ultimately to me at least despite the Pons foul trouble, Fulky being off and the Springer injury it still came down to number 3. and if that's how we lose, then I can handle it.

I don't want to see poor effort, a game full of bad fouls (ref or player driven), or mental mistakes. Some nights ya shoot bad and the other team doesn't, many a top seed has gone home in March for this very issue.


With his size and motor I'd like to see Gaines get more looks as a 4. I know he's not as explosive as Pons, but I feel like in these random matchups with teams that play the 5 out I think Pons/Gaines could stay with the "bigs" of the other teams better than Fulkerson/EJ. And 6'7" with his wingspan I feel like Gaines has potential, he could also be a problem on offense since he seems to have the ability to drive past slower defenders.

My biggest complaint I guess with the team and it's not me calling him out, but I really would have liked to see James force the issue offensively a bit more. He often had the best matchup on that end and with Springer out him pushing for another 4-6 shots and take it to his guy could have forced Alabama to play a bit differently.

Agree on your last point, and while I’ve seen some critiquing Vescovi for forcing some shots, nobody else was trying to make things happen other than Bailey...so I get why those 2 maybe forced a couple looks.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

I think Vescovi has a high ceiling, but he still makes some bewildering decisions with the ball in his hands. He more often than not tries too hard to make something happen, as evidenced by the 3-4 times in the game we had a chance to get it back to 1-2 possessions and he either forced a terrible pass or he tried to drive the lane on his own and got stuffed.

Barnes even called him out in the post-game presser and said he had to stop playing that euro-style of ball and play within himself. Hopefully he takes this as a learning experience that he needs to let the game come to him and not force a bad decision in a critical possession.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Agree on your last point, and while I’ve seen some critiquing Vescovi for forcing some shots, nobody else was trying to make things happen other than Bailey...so I get why those 2 maybe forced a couple looks.

Yeah, I know that Santi isn't comfortable in that role. But when his own HC is telling him to force the issue and take more shots what's he supposed to do?

Bailey & Santi both seem to thrive more when they are getting catch and shoot looks. Despite them both "forcing" the issue Santi finished with 13 points, 33.3% from the field 37.5% from 3 and just 1 TO and Bailey had 16 with 1 TO, but his lack of 3 balls absolutely killed his FG % (just 28.6% and 0% from 3)

We really just had our best and worst shooting games in back to back games, pretty rare that happens. We've got to find a way to keep the valley high enough we can still pull out wins.

But end of the day we've got 4 new guys in rotation on what I consider a very young team (2 freshmen, 2 sophomores getting 18+ mpg right now and Springer's averaged dropped a ton since he only played 5 last night)

 

[gainesvol82]

Ultimately to me at least despite the Pons foul trouble, Fulky being off and the Springer injury it still came down to number 3. and if that's how we lose, then I can handle it.

I don't want to see poor effort, a game full of bad fouls (ref or player driven), or mental mistakes. Some nights ya shoot bad and the other team doesn't, many a top seed has gone home in March for this very issue.


With his size and motor I'd like to see Gaines get more looks as a 4. I know he's not as explosive as Pons, but I feel like in these random matchups with teams that play the 5 out I think Pons/Gaines could stay with the "bigs" of the other teams better than Fulkerson/EJ. And 6'7" with his wingspan I feel like Gaines has potential, he could also be a problem on offense since he seems to have the ability to drive past slower defenders.

My biggest complaint I guess with the team and it's not me calling him out, but I really would have liked to see James force the issue offensively a bit more. He often had the best matchup on that end and with Springer out him pushing for another 4-6 shots and take it to his guy could have forced Alabama to play a bit differently.

I don't think Gaines is the answer at the 4. He would get posted up and pushed around. He also is an offensive liability except on hustle plays and cuts to the basket. I don't remember seeing him make a single jumper at UT.....he needs to put up thousands of shots in the off season. I think his energy/hustle are his best attributes but hurt his jump shot. He needs to learn how to make quick moves and then control that energy when he shoots.

 

[gainesvol82]

Ultimately to me at least despite the Pons foul trouble, Fulky being off and the Springer injury it still came down to number 3. and if that's how we lose, then I can handle it.

I don't want to see poor effort, a game full of bad fouls (ref or player driven), or mental mistakes. Some nights ya shoot bad and the other team doesn't, many a top seed has gone home in March for this very issue.


With his size and motor I'd like to see Gaines get more looks as a 4. I know he's not as explosive as Pons, but I feel like in these random matchups with teams that play the 5 out I think Pons/Gaines could stay with the "bigs" of the other teams better than Fulkerson/EJ. And 6'7" with his wingspan I feel like Gaines has potential, he could also be a problem on offense since he seems to have the ability to drive past slower defenders.

My biggest complaint I guess with the team and it's not me calling him out, but I really would have liked to see James force the issue offensively a bit more. He often had the best matchup on that end and with Springer out him pushing for another 4-6 shots and take it to his guy could have forced Alabama to play a bit differently.

I do agree on JJJ. He should be posting up smaller guards. If he develops a turnaround like Pons then he could be a very effective scorer from the elbow or low block and it would open up other guys to get open and he could draw fouls.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I don't think Gaines is the answer at the 4. He would get posted up and pushed around. He also is an offensive liability except on hustle plays and cuts to the basket. I don't remember seeing him make a single jumper at UT.....he needs to put up thousands of shots in the off season. I think his energy/hustle are his best attributes but hurt his jump shot. He needs to learn how to make quick moves and then control that energy when he shoots.

Not if the opponent is playing 5 out like Bama was, they weren't posting up anyone. Forced our bigs to pull out to the 3 line and driving on them. Fulkerson, ORN, and EJ all 3 just had guys going by them. If Bama had gone back to posting up, ya sub out Gaines (and the chess match continues).

I'm not saying make him a 4, I'm saying with his height/wingspan he can guard a perimeter 4 better than the other 3 I just mentioned. And if his body ever fills out, his game could elevate to a different level. I think his potential is the closest to be another Pons type, can defend 1-5 and be a nightmare matchup on that side of the court.

 

[gainesvol82]

Not if the opponent is playing 5 out like Bama was, they weren't posting up anyone. Forced our bigs to pull out to the 3 line and driving on them. Fulkerson, ORN, and EJ all 3 just had guys going by them. If Bama had gone back to posting up, ya sub out Gaines (and the chess match continues).

I'm not saying make him a 4, I'm saying with his height/wingspan he can guard a perimeter 4 better than the other 3 I just mentioned. And if his body ever fills out, his game could elevate to a different level. I think his potential is the closest to be another Pons type, can defend 1-5 and be a nightmare matchup on that side of the court.

Gotcha and mostly agree. Not sure he ever gets to Pons level of guarding all 5 positions.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

After Vescovi’s debut versus LSU I thought that Barnes had sneaked the next Steve Nash onto the roster. I’ve lost my orange tinted specs.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Gotcha and mostly agree. Not sure he ever gets to Pons level of guarding all 5 positions.

I don't know that we'll ever have anyone get to Pons level again. Ya can't teach that kind of explosiveness, I think his background in dance makes him a unique leaper. But I do know even right now Gaines is a better on ball perimeter defender than Fulkerson, ORN, or EJ and he's as tall as EJ/ORN.

Gaines is however about to turn 21, so I'm not sure he's going to pull a Tatum for us and shoot up another 2". But if he can find a way to get 200-210lbs on that frame, considering he's still got another 3 years of eligibility without having to burn a RS...I don't know that he'll ever get a shot in the league but as a project player he could be developed into a very good college player under Barnes.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

After Vescovi’s debut versus LSU I thought that Barnes had sneaked the next Steve Nash onto the roster. I’ve lost my orange tinted specs.

I like his game personally. He is not a blazing fast guard, but he has shown to be a dependable player the majority of the time. When his outside shot is falling, we are a tough team to beat.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I like his game personally. He is not a blazing fast guard, but he has shown to be a dependable player the majority of the time. When his outside shot is falling, we are a tough team to beat.

Maybe I can hope for the next Scott Skiles or Aaron Craft. But I think he’ll settle in to an off the bench 2 for the next 2 years,

 

[BruinVol]

@bleedingTNorange this place wasn’t that bad after the loss. Seemed reasonable to me.

I know you love Bailey but I wanted your thoughts to this. You may have missed it in the other thread

A couple of stats that I think need to addressed for this team to be at it’s best.

Imo Bailey is shooting way too much and JJJ isn’t shooting enough.


Thru 8 games Bailey is by far the leading player in shot attempts with 80. While his overall % is very solid his 3pt % is a poor 31% with 35 attempts. If that % doesn’t improve quickly he’s going to have to tone it down. I know he has a history of being a good shooter but this team has way too many options for him to get so many more shots than the rest of the team.


last year we saw that JJJ was a darn good 3 pt shooter and he’s off to a solid start being 7/19 38%. The issue is that’s not enough attempts for a guy that has proven himself here.

 

[berryvol]

After Vescovi’s debut versus LSU I thought that Barnes had sneaked the next Steve Nash onto the roster. I’ve lost my orange tinted specs.

Not that I think he's Steve Nash, but Vescovi still has a very high ceiling here. He is already wildly effective and 1. still has a very weak right hand, 2. hasn't fully caught up to the American game with his decision making, and 3. could greatly improve on his finishing ability inside. If he improves as much as Bone did, he will be a phenomenal player by the time his UT career is up. I think people often forget that he has only been in the program for one calendar year and is still inexperienced by all means.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

After Vescovi’s debut versus LSU I thought that Barnes had sneaked the next Steve Nash onto the roster. I’ve lost my orange tinted specs.

Not far off...

Nash's career: 30.1mpg 14.9ppg 3.1rbpg 4.5apg 43% fg 40% 3p 86.7% ft 3.1 topg
Santi's career: 29.6mpg 10.4ppg 3.4rbpg 3.7apg 38.5% fg 38.3% 3p 83.9% ft 3.0 topg
Nash's first 31: 24mpg 8.1ppg 2.5rbpg 2.2apg 42.4% fg 40.8% 3p 82.5% ft 2.0 topg

And his FG, 3p, and FT this season are all higher than his career averages: 42.1% FG, 43.9% 3p 100% ft

He's also dropped his turnovers per game by almost 2, 3.5 last season to 1.6 this year. To be honest he's actually higher in most totals to where Nash was at this time in his career (he's only played in 27 games)

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Not that I think he's Steve Nash, but Vescovi still has a very high ceiling here. He is already wildly effective and 1. still has a very weak right hand, 2. hasn't fully caught up to the American game with his decision making, and 3. could greatly improve on his finishing ability inside. If he improves as much as Bone did, he will be a phenomenal player by the time his UT career is up. I think people often forget that he has only been in the program for one calendar year and is still inexperienced by all means.

I don’t see his role as a PG expanding until after Chandler moves on. Bone had a lot of minutes to refine his skills as a PG. I think that Barnes keeps giving many minutes to JJJ/KJ/JS.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I think our fanbase as a whole just needs to accept that Barnes' style of ball with how he's recruiting now we're unlikely to see Kevin Punter type of numbers from anyone.

Feel like 4-6 guys in that 10-14ppg range will be the norm.