The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

[hog88]

My wife just finished her 18 month tour of duty on a Federal Grand Jury, one day a month for 18 months. She was the spokesperson and said it was quite the education for her. I think she said only one case was not sent to trial. They went through a few cases each day, pretty short, concise, to the point and here’s the evidence. My bro in law is a litigator in Memphis. I was in town and met him at the courthouse, “the pit”, because he had a court appointment for a couple of cases before we could go to lunch. Eye opening stuff.

18 months is a long time. Is that normal for a federal GJ?

 

[VOLS INC.]

There are more smokescreens with "we've got the political opponent this time" than there are with UT coaching searches.

Ya know. I’m hearing Gruden would consider us now.

 

[Orangeburst]

18 months is a long time. Is that normal for a federal GJ?

Just one day/month but That sounds like a job.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Trump hush-money grand jury proceedings 'canceled' for Wednesday, sources say

 

[Orangeburst]

Watch this and read the comments..who is a cult now?

 

[85SugarVol]

Excellent. Let's hope your original, still-unedited post, which could be taken literally doesn't do any harm. I would hope anyone influenced by your carelessness would continue reading as see your amendment posted later. But we can never be sure of how others engage with our posts, can we?

I went back and read it. Yikes.

 

[RockyTop85]

My wife just finished her 18 month tour of duty on a Federal Grand Jury, one day a month for 18 months. She was the spokesperson and said it was quite the education for her. I think she said only one case was not sent to trial. They went through a few cases each day, pretty short, concise, to the point and here’s the evidence. My bro in law is a litigator in Memphis. I was in town and met him at the courthouse, “the pit”, because he had a court appointment for a couple of cases before we could go to lunch. Eye opening stuff.

Yeah, the federal system is a little different, too. Most of the time, they have the luxury of doing more fact finding before deciding whether to even present the case to the grand jury.

A lot of times, State cases start within minutes of the crime and the prosecutor is on the clock. It’s not unusual for cases to linger in sessions court but the amount of work getting done on developing the proof probably rounds down to 0 on average, if you take the DUIs out of the equation.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Is Trump derangement syndrome to blame for NY DA Bragg to withhold evidence from the grand jury.

That's just part of "doing whatever is necessary."

 

[Gandalf]

So they don't have him now? Again?

Teflon Don, indeed.

But then, of all the things they might try to bring, this was always one of the weakest.

TBH - I simply cannot fathom how they cannot find SOMETHING that is reasonably credible on a guy who has been doing real estate development in NYC for 50 years. No doubt they will keep trying though.

I mean, have had good friends (and even enemies) laid low by Vance (Bragg's predecessor) and by Eastern and Southern District, where they simply twisted laws into new creations or fabricated whole cloth to destroy a political person. These were serious power players of many years, not babes in the wood. How Trump has been able to escape this fate boggles my mind. It must be the money.

 

[whodeycin85]

Must have been somebody else that lives in Hattiesburg.

If you’re retired or have the time and especially if you live in a city, I think it is worth going and watching general sessions court for a morning. Sit in the front behind the prosecutors and see how the sausage is made. Criminal court too, to see the contrast, if you’re really interested.

A lot of the stuff that people associate with the fairness of the criminal Justice system aren’t enforced obligations against prosecutors or police. Even the ones that are obliged are defined narrowly and rarely enforced. They generally have to be raised by the defendant.

The way Chattanooga used to be set up, there were too many cases for the first prosecutor to really know wtf was going on. Generally, the cops told them what they needed to know and the police essentially drove the bus until it got through the grand jury and everything got turned over to the felony prosecutor an defense attorney. General Sessions was a sieve. The system was sorting out most of the minor stuff where there was no dispute of fact and a bit of the more serious stuff where the state was unlikely to win on the facts.

The grand jury is a secret proceeding. I’ve never been on one but just piecing things together it is minimalistic process that may spend a few minutes on each case, they mostly just read them the affidavit and answer any questions.

Having been indicated before I understand the process. My point is more to the fact that this is clearly politically motivated so much so that key details of the case we're intentionally left out by a xealot DA....let me ask you this what exactly is he point of our justice system???? Justice or convictions

 

[Vol737]

18 months is a long time. Is that normal for a federal GJ?

I don’t know about “normal”, but my guess is maybe they have several going on at once, hence why they only had to meet one day each month. Doesn’t really interfere much with work schedules.

 

[Vol737]

Ya know. I’m hearing Gruden would consider us now.

Maybe, but we’re sure not considering him unless he wants to be Heupel’s water boy.

 

[VOLS INC.]

Having been indicated before I understand the process. My point is more to the fact that this is clearly politically motivated so much so that key details of the case we're intentionally left out by a xealot DA....let me ask you this what exactly is he point of our justice system???? Justice or convictions

Neither.

Leveraging semi-entertaining television shows at 1pm to sell cleaning supplies and gold.

That’s the point!

 

[OrangeTsar]

That's yet one more reason why Trumpism was/is horribly wrong and destructive.

Just out of (honest) curiosity, what in your definition differentiates “Trumpism” from traditional constitutional conservatism as practiced pre 2016?
I have my own definition and I am wondering how closely they match.

 

[RockyTop85]

Having been indicated before I understand the process. My point is more to the fact that this is clearly politically motivated so much so that key details of the case we're intentionally left out by a xealot DA....let me ask you this what exactly is he point of our justice system???? Justice or convictions

Except you clearly do not know how it works.

Key details of the case are left out of probably every case that is presented to a grand jury. You think the grand jury heard the arguments that you or your lawyers would have made and heard the facts that you would have relied on for those arguments?

The point of the system is certainly not justice. That may be what you want it to be, but not what it actually is. The most realistic description is probably something like “enforcing laws as economically as possible within the bounds allowed by the constitution.”

 

[OrangeTsar]

Trump hush-money grand jury proceedings 'canceled' for Wednesday, sources say

 

[whodeycin85]

Except you clearly do not know how it works.

Key details of the case are left out of probably every case that is presented to a grand jury. You think the grand jury heard the arguments that you or your lawyers would have made and heard the facts that you would have relied on for those arguments?

The point of the system is certainly not justice. That may be what you want it to be, but not what it actually is. The most realistic description is probably something like “enforcing laws as economically as possible within the bounds allowed by the constitution.”

Fair enough..I was guilty so didn't have much of a lg to stand on. Lol. Do you think this is an issue for the DA Bragg?

 

[luthervol]

Excellent. Let's hope your original, still-unedited post, which could be taken literally doesn't do any harm. I would hope anyone influenced by your carelessness would continue reading to see your amendment posted later. But we can never be sure of how others engage with our posts, can we?

That's a lesson Trump certainly never learned. Or maybe he actually learned it very well.......

But I feel pretty safe with my post, out of the few who are so dense as to misinterpret, none are left leaning.

I'm not picking up on your angle. Maybe it's one of the times when blue font would actually be beneficial?

 

[OrangeTsar]

….

The point of the system is certainly not justice. That may be what you want it to be, but not what it actually is. The most realistic description is probably something like “enforcing laws as economically as possible within the bounds allowed by the constitution.”

Call me cynical; but considering that DAs are elected positions I would say the point is….
“Select enough highly visible and emotionally engaging cases with high probabilities of conviction to win re-election”
Bragg clearly knows his electorate well (80% Biden voters). That is ALL this is

 

[luthervol]

Purely subjective and biased.

lol....There is no chance that the two sides have exactly even uses of propaganda. Which means one side is more reliant on propaganda than the other. I'm confident with my somewhat subjective and somewhat objective opinion. Maybe you are equally confident in yours......but obviously, we both can't be correct.

 

[OrangeTsar]

This is precisely what the left refuses to acknowledge. Sure, they will declare all day everyday “Y’all just need to move on from Trump! He’s bad for the country. Nominate someone with integrity, someone that will unite rather than divide. Someone that America can be proud to support. As a lifelong democrat, I may even cast a vote for that person”.

The problem with that view is this: R = Racist, sexist, intolerant bigot in the eyes of most democrat voters. No matter who we nominate, many on the left will consider them “literally Hitler”. So don’t believe the lies they spew. We need to nominate a fighter because we are in a fight to protect ourselves and children from the democrat party agenda.

Yup, for me the game was up when I saw them paint Mitt Milquetoast Romney as some sort of right wing ideologue when he ran against Obama.
I knew right then there was no way they would ever settle for ANY Republican, their protestations to the contrary were hollow.

 

[McDad]

But I feel pretty safe with my post, ...

Osama Bin Laden felt pretty safe, too, as long as others wore the suicide vest.

 

[RockyTop85]

Call me cynical; but considering that DAs are elected positions I would say the point is….
“Select enough highly visible and emotionally engaging cases with high probabilities of conviction to win re-election”
Bragg clearly knows his electorate well (80% Biden voters). That is ALL this is

Those cases get special treatment, but it’s not the purpose of the system or even a goal that the system really works towards. It’s just individual components of the system getting a side benefit by making a show of doing their job “well.”

Probably 99.999% of criminal cases aren’t newsworthy but states still spend resources on them.

 

[RockyTop85]

Fair enough..I was guilty so didn't have much of a lg to stand on. Lol. Do you think this is an issue for the DA Bragg?

I don’t think selectively presenting the case to the grand jury thing will ever be an issue for him. I think that’s more “Roger Stone didn’t get a fair trial” stuff from outrage media.

I think Bragg’s issue is going to happen when he over sells and under delivers. People who want Trump punished for something aren’t going to be satisfied by “I tried,” and I just don’t see this as a case that’s likely to be successful, based on what little I know about it.

 

[luthervol]

Just out of (honest) curiosity, what in your definition differentiates “Trumpism” from traditional constitutional conservatism as practiced pre 2016?
I have my own definition and I am wondering how closely they match.

One primary component is viewing the left as the enemy.
That the only way to move the country forward is to increase divisiveness.
Another would be the belief that MSM news sources are as left as Fox is right.
A fourth would be that the 2020 election was stolen.
Fifth, Jan. 6th was an appropriate response.