The lights are blinking red

#151
#151
luthervol said:
EU Court: Putin's party rigged the 2011 Russian elections - Business Insider

The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) ruled last week that the 2011 Russian parliamentary elections were "unfair" and "compromised," World Affairs Journal reported.

Maybe Hillary was trying to counterbalance Putin's interference to actually make them more fair.
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So it’s Okay to interfere so long is your reason is righteous?

So by that reasoning, putin can justify his actions because he was counterbalancing the left of center media in the United States. My point was don’t point your finger at someone else for doing the exact same thing you were doing.
 
#152
#152
Orange_Crush said:
I withhold an opinion due to some lack of information.

And again... You have been the antithesis if rational in your posts today. You have been like more than ad hominem attacks and hand waving.
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I'm only asking for your opinion based on the information available at this point. We can qualify every one's response with "subject to change as new information becomes available." I just want a snapshot of people's current positions.
 
#153
#153
Sandman 423 said:
So it’s Okay to interfere so long is your reason is righteous?

So by that reasoning, putin can justify his actions because he was counterbalancing the left of center media in the United States. My point was don’t point your finger at someone else for doing the exact same thing you were doing.
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Where is the evidence that Clinton interfered in the 2011 Russian election? Do you view Russian and American elections as equally legitimate? Do you think the Russian election (without US interference) would have been fair and legitimate,

Interfering in an illegitimate election is in no way exactly the same as interfering in a legitimate election.
 
#154
#154
luthervol said:
I'm only asking for your opinion based on the information available at this point. We can qualify every one's response with "subject to change as new information becomes available." I just want a snapshot of people's current positions.
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That's just it, I have the ability to withhold judgment until I get more information. On one hand, I would not be surprised that Russia would try to affect our elections. On the other hand, I suspect every bit of this as a political too to delegations Trump.

So here we are. I don't really know what to think, and you've stopped tripping down on or fallacies.

It seems a productive usage of time.
 
#157
#157
luthervol said:
Where is the evidence that Clinton interfered in the 2011 Russian election? Do you view Russian and American elections as equally legitimate? Do you think the Russian election (without US interference) would have been fair and legitimate,

Interfering in an illegitimate election is in no way exactly the same as interfering in a legitimate election.
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I believe you stay out of other peoples elections regardless of whether you feel they are legitimate Or illegitimate.

I have never been part of a Russian election so I have no idea how legitimate they are.

If you feel our election is legitimate then how do you consider our president illegitimate?
 
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#158
#158
What I find counterintuitive about this whole thing is:

If Putin wanted Trump to win, why, in the face of intelligence gained from the DNC server hack? An adversary would be in a position of strength dealing with a leader that is compromised.

Makes one wonder what was on that server as well, and frankly both party servers would be squalid to any normal person.


Obama and Hills were tied at the hip and displayed more "affection" for Putin than Trump...."flexibility", reset buttons, etc.
 
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#160
#160
Sandman 423 said:
I believe you stay out of other peoples elections regardless of whether you feel they are legitimate Or illegitimate.
Many countries actually solicit outside observers to help insure an elections legitimacy.
I have never been part of a Russian election so I have no idea how legitimate they are.
You have no idea? Really? You do not have to witness something to have an informed opinion.

If you feel our election is legitimate then how do you consider our president illegitimate?
I was saying legitimate in the absence of outside interference, but I reserve the right to modify that stance. We are close to the point of deligitimizing our own elections due to the prolifiration of the "real fake news" - the effects of the gaslighting campaign.
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*
 
#162
#162
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#163
#163
Orangeburst65 said:
What I find counterintuitive about this whole thing is:

If Putin wanted Trump to win, why, in the face of intelligence gained from the DNC server hack? An adversary would be in a position of strength dealing with a leader that is compromised.

Makes one wonder what was on that server as well, and frankly both party servers would be squalid to any normal person.


Obama and Hills were tied at the hip and displayed more "affection" for Putin than Trump...."flexibility", reset buttons, etc.
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Maybe Trump is more compromised. Or maybe Trump and Putin have vastly more similar world views.
 
#166
#166
luthervol said:
Russian interference for the sake of helping Trump and hurting Clinton. Had Clinton won despite the Russian efforts (which most everyone thought would be the outcome) instead of Trump winning because of those efforts, the outcry would have naturally been less and the the response to Russia more severe.
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What exactly did the Russians do to secure Trump's win (allegedly)?
 
#167
#167
luthervol said:
Maybe Trump is more compromised. Or maybe Trump and Putin have vastly more similar world views.
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That last sentence is it luther duper....you cracked the secret code that everyone has been looking for.....:thumbsup: congrats on ur hard work. You're the winner of a free chicken dinner at KFC.
 
#171
#171
luthervol said:
Maybe Trump is more compromised. Or maybe Trump and Putin have vastly more similar world views.
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Maybe...but so what? It is called Realpolitik. It will always happen...we do it to "them" and they do it to us.

Would u not agree that at least we have national voter ID with acknowledgment of vote by the voter? That seems to allow more integrity of the voting process than someone hacking into a digital system that can change votes via keystroke.

I hate to break it to ya, but this digital age will always be open to compromise. And as I mentioned, I am not even sure my vote has ever been counted.
 
#175
#175
Rasputin_Vol said:
What exactly did the Russians do to secure Trump's win (allegedly)?
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Propagandize against Hillary enough to move some Trump haters into "hold their nose and vote against Hillary" voters. They seem to have played a key role in the Hillary e-mail hysteria. Again, enough to push an unknown number of voters away from Hillary and too Trump.
 
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