The Kiffin Effect

#1
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VegasVol

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#1
Kiffin already set a record for his time at Tennessee -- the worst attrition rate on a SEC program by any coach in such a short time period. Aside from the cut-and-burn approach he took to the then-existing roster (depleting all depth), or the loss of players in the wake of his sudden departure, and not even counting all the recruits we would have lost had he stayed (Hunter & Stone not here; recruits like Ambles, Stanley, Willis likely would have left for reasons they left those programs), let's just look at his 2009 roster.

Kiffin's 2009 Class New #1 Ranking
Worst 4/5* Attrition Rate of 2009 Recruits (not including re-signed players)
Tennessee - 50% (7)
Ole Miss - 45% (4)
Auburn - 33% (3)
South Carolina - 22% (3)
Alabama - 15% (3)
Miss. State - 15% (1)
Florida - 15% (2)
Georgia - 12% (2)
LSU - 12% (2)
Arkansas - 0% (0)
Kentucky - 0% (0)
Vandy - 0 recruits
 
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#2
#2
And yet, we still will probably get more quality production out of that class than Fulmer's last two.
 
#5
#5
tvolsfan said:
And yet, we still will probably get more quality production out of that class than Fulmer's last two.
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Thanks to Kiffin's cut-and-run approach, we have little depth from either class, so you can thank Kiffin for that too. Even then, you seem to be imagining great productivity from many 2009 recruits yet to make any impact:

2007-2008 On-Field Productive Recruits
Eric Berry
Savion Frazier
Gerald Jones
Ben Martin
Nevin McKenzie
Denarius Moore
Dennis Rogan
Chris Walker
DeAngelo Willingham
Willie Bohannon
Aaron Douglas
Montori Hughes (re-signed in 2009)
Austin Johnson
Herman Lathers
Tauren Poole
Prentiss Waggner
Marlon Walls (re-signed in 2009)
Gerald Williams

2009 Productive Recruits
Eric Gordon
Janzen Jackson
Greg King
Zach Rogers
JerQuari Schofield
Marsalis Teague

Does 6 exceed 18 in Kiffin-crack world?
 
#9
#9
At least 8 or 9 of those from 2007-2008 are either already gone, left the program, don't play, or were injured this year.
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#12
#12
AJeray4TN said:
At least 8 or 9 of those from 2007-2008 are either already gone, left the program, don't play, or were injured this year.
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So your definition of "production" for a recruit is solely whether they will be here in 2011? That isn't what the OP said and is an absurd definition of "production." That would exclude every single JC player in either class, every single non-redshirted player from 2007, and every single early NFL entry player. Try using a definition with common sense next time.
 
#13
#13
iuvol2012 said:
Ironic coming from you. How many of those 18 guys are still on the team? Remind me again.
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More ironic coming from you -- defining a productive recruit by whether they are here 5 years after they arrive on campus, excluding all early NFL entries as "productive," excluding all non-redshirt seniors as "productive," and excluding all JC players as "productive." Under your definition, Eric Berry wasn't "productive" for us here at Tennessee.
 
#15
#15
Im talking about this year genius. You know, the 13 games we just got done playing? Who said anything about the 2011 season? It's pretty funy that people are still moaning and crying about Kiffin though.
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#16
#16
Man. Really wish we could get our players back from Memphis, MTSU, Chattanooga, and Louisiana Tech.

And Justin Hunter would have been here.
 
#17
#17
AJeray4TN said:
Im talking about this year genius. You know, the 13 games we just got done playing? Who said anything about the 2011 season? It's pretty funy that people are still moaning and crying about Kiffin though.
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Because the 2009 recruits make a bigger difference on the 2011 season than recruits from five years ago ever could. What's pretty funny is how people obsess over Fulmer to justify their mistaken confidence in Kiffin; you're the one wanting to debate a 2007 class in a post that was only about the 2009 class -- so who is "moaning and crying" about irrelevant people? Let's compare just the 2008 & 2009 recruits.

Fulmer's 2008 Recruits (some re-signed in 2009)
Likely Productive in 2011
Bohannon
Hughes
Johnson
Lathers
Poole
Thomas
Waggner
Walls

2009 Recruits
Likely Productive in 2011
Schofield
Jackson
King
Rogers
Teague

So one of Fulmer's worst-ever classes (2008) is likely to give us more productive recruits in 2011 (using your chosen standard), than Kiffin's celebrated 2009 recruits.
 
#18
#18
VegasVol said:
Because the 2009 recruits make a bigger difference on the 2011 season than recruits from five years ago ever could. What's pretty funny is how people obsess over Fulmer to justify their mistaken confidence in Kiffin; you're the one wanting to debate a 2007 class in a post that was only about the 2009 class -- so who is "moaning and crying" about irrelevant people? Let's compare just the 2008 & 2009 recruits.

Fulmer's 2008 Recruits (some re-signed in 2009)
Likely Productive in 2011
Bohannon
Hughes
Johnson
Lathers
Poole
Thomas
Waggner
Walls

2009 Recruits
Likely Productive in 2011
Schofield
Jackson
King
Rogers
Teague

So one of Fulmer's worst-ever classes (2008) is likely to give us more productive recruits in 2011 (using your chosen standard), than Kiffin's celebrated 2009 recruits.
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I'm sure Nyshier Oliver and Eric Gordon will be benchwarmers next year.

Kiffin's 2009 class only included about 11 guys that were really his and not Fulmer holdovers or guys Fulmer likely also would have gotten. Those guys were signed with little time for evaluation and with very little competition from other guys for their signatures. Not exactly the best judge of his recruiting capabilities.

Also seeing as how we signed 22 guys, and about half them were Phil's, I'd say the lack of production from that class isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Fulmer, either.
 
#19
#19
VegasVol said:
Kiffin's 2009 Class New #1 Ranking
Worst 4/5* Attrition Rate of 2009 Recruits (not including re-signed players)
Tennessee - 50% (7)
Ole Miss - 45% (4)
Auburn - 33% (3)
South Carolina - 22% (3)
Alabama - 15% (3)
Miss. State - 15% (1)
Florida - 15% (2)
Georgia - 12% (2)
LSU - 12% (2)
Arkansas - 0% (0)
Kentucky - 0% (0)
Vandy - 0 recruits
Click to expand...

What do these numbers mean? We lost 50% of our 4/5 players from the 2009 class? What is the 7 in parentheses? Whose numbers are you using?
 
#20
#20
Rivals shows us with eleven 4 and 5 stars in 2009. We've lost 5 of them. 45%.

Scout has it at 13 players, 5 of them gone. 38%.
 
#21
#21
And going by Rivals, looks like Ole Miss signed 9 4/5 star players in 2009 and lost 5. So they've got a 55.5% attrition rate.
 
#22
#22
Auburn signed 9. Lost 4. 44% attrition rate.

Don't care to look through the rest of them, but I imagine there are other inaccuracies.
 
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#23
#23
VegasVol said:
More ironic coming from you -- defining a productive recruit by whether they are here 5 years after they arrive on campus, excluding all early NFL entries as "productive," excluding all non-redshirt seniors as "productive," and excluding all JC players as "productive." Under your definition, Eric Berry wasn't "productive" for us here at Tennessee.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Nevin McKenzie and DeAngelo Willingham were so productive. Good one :crazy:
 
#24
#24
kptvol said:
Auburn signed 9. Lost 4. 44% attrition rate.

Don't care to look through the rest of them, but I imagine there are other inaccuracies.
Click to expand...

Really? Inaccuracies with VegasVol's stats? I'm shocked.
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