The further we get away

#26
#26
VolsSportsFan said:
I never knew a 2 point win was an ass whipping. If that's the case, then Dooley has had 5 for sure this year.

Zook also embarrassed us in our house in his first try.
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At the end of that game Spurrier himself that "we were stronger on the line of scrimmage, they whipped us upfront". Zook went 1-2 against Fulmer. But all that ain't the point. The point is Zook took over a well oiled machine. And proceeded to waste it. That is NOT what Dooley did. Dooley took over a bunch of scrap metal. And then was told to build a working, functional vehicle out of it. Their situations are TOTALLY different. No sense in comparing them.
 
#27
#27
And all those fumbles in 2002 were not caused or recovered by Zook. Nor were they Fulmers fault. The Negavols have a morbid way of describing losses. What gives?
 
#29
#29
1) UT/hamilton hired a recruiter and then he left.

2) UT/hamilton hired a very smart, pedigreed, unproven coach that was sure to stay.
(this coach for whatever reason had the offense to win)

3) UT/hart hired SS

Look we need a monster recruiter. We need it for both sides of the ball. But we could easily have won and won in an exciting way this year with some competence on defense, which imo has been there until hart arrived.
 
#33
#33
Majorvol23 said:
This proves how useless preseason predictions are. Those 3 caveats turned out to be false, and we lost those games.

And yes, 10 wins was the height of all predictions I saw, and for a team that went 5-7 the year prior and didn't even know how to win ... yes, 10 wins was a stretch and an absolute best case scenario. I don't recall seeing anyone predicting 11 wins for us

The 3 preseason "truths" regarding UF, USCe, and MsSt turned out to be inaccurate - People's mindsets are angered because expecations weren't met, yet those expectations were based on unknowns and false assumptions
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whenever you make predictions there are bound to be some things that don't turn out exactly like you thought - we've also been able to run the ball better than i think most reasonable posters would have guessed so nothing is 100%

i still still think a quality coach goes at least 9-3 with with this team - DD was right there with GA, SC and Mstate - you pull 2 of those out and your looking at 9-3 with the wins vs the weak teams at the end of the year

I just don't think that is a delusional expectation for this team - they have dramatically underachieved, that doesnt make the initial prediction less realistic
 
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#34
#34
I agree, it seems the New Vol Fan has accepted defeat as a way of life.....following the Vols since 1963 I've never seen such fan appathy.....the Old Tennessee Volunteers had Pride By God and we expected to win....my how things change. One thing is for sure the Vols are not supposed to be at the bottom of the SEC or 0-5 in November
 
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#35
#35
photovol said:
I agree, it seems the New Vol Fan has accepted defeat as a way of life.....following the Vols since 1963 I've never seen such fan appathy.....the Old Tennessee Volunteers had Pride By God and we expected to win....my how things change. One thing is for sure the Vols are not supposed to be at the bottom of the SEC or 0-5 in November
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I'm with you - I grew up in the 90s and went to college in the early 2000s so to say that it is delusional to expect UT to beat Vandy,UK,Mistate, NCstate, South Carolina, and MO - i mean really - that is a far different TN than I grew up watching if that is delusional
 
#36
#36
PimpVol said:
Yeah. Zook took over a team in 2002 that Spurrier had number 1 or 2 all year in 2001 until we whipped his ass on the swamp at the end of the year. Florida was SEC champs in 99 & 2000. Zook then proceeded to do nothing with it. He had no sanctions, no turmoil, no two coaches in one year to deal with or anything of that nature. He had the best recruiting base in the nation. He had an excellent recent tradition of winning to boot.
So when you compare Dooley to Zook, you will see that you really can't. Objectively anyway. But don't let a little thing like facts get in the way of a good Dooley bash. VN would never allow that. Would they?
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You really must stop using facts and logic here on VN my friend, LOL.

People will hate you on here for doing that.

You're be called a sunshine pumper, a CDD lover, wanting to jump in the sack with CDD, Vince Dooley or Barbara, told you love Tennessee losing, ect, ect, ect LOL!

Try my approach buddy...Write really long posts with facts and mature logic and then most people won't even read them because they fear they might actually learn something, LOL.

Then many people will click the thumbs up, you'll get lots of likes from the more mature smarter people and less hatred because the others won't read your posts as much, LOL.

I support your attempts to try and help people learn a little more about college football other than only a win/loss record buddy.

VFL...GBO!!!
 
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#37
#37
SCvol333 said:
whenever you make predictions there are bound to be some things that don't turn out exactly like you thought - we've also been able to run the ball better than i think most reasonable posters would have guessed so nothing is 100%

i still still think a quality coach goes at least 9-3 with with this team - DD was right there with GA, SC and Mstate - you pull 2 of those out and your looking at 9-3 with the wins vs the weak teams at the end of the year

I just don't think that is a delusional expectation for this team - they have dramatically underachieved, that doesnt make the initial prediction less realistic
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I'll have to disagree with you my frtiend and here's why...

It's way OVERexpecting to predict 8, 9 or 10 wins this season with basically the same team that packed it in and didn't even try to beat Kentucky last year.

All Summer I warned against this and said 7 Wins was a decent season, 8 was a good season and anything over 8 wins would be a great season.

THINK...We lost Da'rick Rogers because he's stupid and kept breaking rules and I also think he was a Cancer to our team especially to Bray BUR he was also our most physical WR that would use his body to shield off defenders better and he would fight for the ball so he was a big loss.

All smart people know that it takes 2 years to get a new 3-4 Defence down well so it's a really tough D to try and beat so anyone that thought our D would be good this season didn't know that or didn't pay attention as many times as I tried to explain this to everyone on here.

I agree with you that CDD fixed our running game much better than expected like he promised to do and our Offense is better than we've had in 10 years even without Da'rick Rogers but I knew our new 3-4 D would give up alot of big plays but I didn't expect quite this many to be honest.

The 3-4 is complicated and tough to learn but many times our kids do well and make great plays.

The biggest problem I see is on the shifts.

When the O makes shifts our D also has to make the right shifts and do it fast...but while we're still thinking and trying to make our shifts to get into the right positions the O snaps the ball fast and we get caught out of position and a big play or a big scoring play happens.

We also lost Randolph for the season and that hurts and Maggitt has had turf toe all season so I'm amazed that he can even play byt that toe problem slows him way doen and he's lost his PUSH to be able to get off blocks faster if at all and plays get past him.

We're so close to being a really good team and if only 3 to 5 plays per game had gone differently we would be a 1 loss team, ranked in the top 10 and already be the SEC East Champions heading to Atlanta and trying to figure out how to beat Bama for the SEC Championship.

Sadly, close doesn't count for this year.

VFL...GBO!!!
 
#38
#38
Titan&Volfan4life said:
You really must stop using facts and logic here on VN my friend, LOL.

People will hate you on here for doing that.

You're be called a sunshine pumper, a CDD lover, wanting to jump in the sack with CDD, Vince Dooley or Barbara, told you love Tennessee losing, ect, ect, ect LOL!

Try my approach buddy...Write really long posts with facts and mature logic and then most people won't even read them because they fear they might actually learn something, LOL.

Then many people will click the thumbs up, you'll get lots of likes from the more mature smarter people and less hatred because the others won't read your posts as much, LOL.

I support your attempts to try and help people learn a little more about college football other than only a win/loss record buddy.

VFL...GBO!!!
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I love making long drawn out posts that most people lack the intellectual capacity to respond to... Then when they do the responses are so full of logical fallacies and opinions they make for hilarious reading... I just wish I was reading the brain farts of another fanbase and not ours...
 
#40
#40
While I agree that those are the expectations, and Dooley has not lived up to them...

I STILL want to know who his replacement is BEFORE he gets fired... No point in the U spending that much money unless we get the right guy..

without the right guy.. all a move does is set us back a few more years.

Things need to be thought out before emotionally driven decisions get made that hurt the team in the long run..

I mean is there ANYONE who honestly thinks firing fulmer was still the right move? Would it even have been possible for fulmer to lose as many games in the last 4 years as Dooley and kiffin did?

It would have taken a decade for fulmer to lose that many IMO..

Fulmer haters bash away...
 
#41
#41
ImportedVoL said:
While I agree that those are the expectations, and Dooley has not lived up to them...

I STILL want to know who his replacement is BEFORE he gets fired... No point in the U spending that much money unless we get the right guy..

without the right guy.. all a move does is set us back a few more years.

Things need to be thought out before emotionally driven decisions get made that hurt the team in the long run..

I mean is there ANYONE who honestly thinks firing fulmer was still the right move? Would it even have been possible for fulmer to lose as many games in the last 4 years as Dooley and kiffin did?

It would have taken a decade for fulmer to lose that many IMO..

Fulmer haters bash away...
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Interesting point.

If it could be proven that Fulmer had things headed back toward the late 90's you would have a point. Kiffin bolting for USC and Dooley not being an answer shouldn't be the gauge for whether Fulmer should still be here.

It was pretty evident that UT had fallen out of the top tier in Fulmers last years (and there are many opinions as to why that happened) the fact remains that LSU, UGA, UF, USCe and Bama had all passed us or where headed that way. I think they were getting better, while we were getting worst.

Is Fulmer better than Dooley? Absolutely, and the track record backs that up. I don't see either of them being the answer to the current SEC landscape.
 
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#42
#42
ImportedVoL said:
While I agree that those are the expectations, and Dooley has not lived up to them...

I STILL want to know who his replacement is BEFORE he gets fired... No point in the U spending that much money unless we get the right guy..

without the right guy.. all a move does is set us back a few more years.

Things need to be thought out before emotionally driven decisions get made that hurt the team in the long run..

I mean is there ANYONE who honestly thinks firing fulmer was still the right move? Would it even have been possible for fulmer to lose as many games in the last 4 years as Dooley and kiffin did?

It would have taken a decade for fulmer to lose that many IMO..

Fulmer haters bash away...
Click to expand...


OK. I'll take a stab at it.

First, I'm not a Fulmer hater. Until around 2003, I was on the Fulmer bandwagon. However, his recruiting fell off bigtime (don't hold me exactly to the 2003 number).
By the time he was fired, there just wasn't a lot to get excited about. We had been on a slow downhill slide. Overall, it just wasn't getter any better. He is a nice guy, but it was time to move over and let someone else have a turn.

Great coach. His time had passed.

Any time you make a change, there is risk involved. Still, it needed to happen.

I was all for the Kiffin experiment. However, it failed miserably. I did think it was an interesting ride though.

Unfortunately, when he left as he did, it left the team in shambles. Dooley, a bright young coach, inherited a mess. This mess has been slowly but surely rebuilt.

Obviously, losing such a high number of assistants last year did not help. Hiring Sunseri as a coordinater - so far - has been a disaster. Giving another year probably isn't going to be an option.

So, here we are. We have a coach who has done a very good job in recruiting - given the circumstances. But his on-the-field coaching, I would give a B- - given the circumstances.

I agree with the above posters who say that we SHOULD be competing for championships. The thing is, I have watched Tennessee football since the late 60's. We have our ups and downs. Sometimes our downs last a while. We are on the upswing.

We have three choices, IMO. We can continue on the course that Dooley has set (I don't think the AD is going to do this. Nor will the whathaveyoudoneformelately fanbase). We can fire Dooley, and take what is available (again, another very risky move that could set us back another 3 or 4 years). Or, we can dish out a record amount of money, and go for a "sure thing."

Nothing in life is a sure thing, but I think I am being realistic like a lot of other big-picture thinkers on here: Either let Dooley finish his job, or hire that "sure thing" guy. We have already "wasted" enough time giving the up-and-comer a chance.

So, I guess I at least agree with one of your three assertions. Dooley has certainly made me wonder if he is ever going to get over the hump. Someone has to get this team thinking they can win, or knowing how to win. I guess it is just hard to do that when your "all-star" qb is such an enigmatic person.

I do not live and die by any coach. I just think that you can't compare Dooley's situation to Zook, etc. You have to take it on it's own merits.

Dooley has brought us part of the way back up the mountain. Now, lets stay the course (probably not gonna happen) or let's let somebody that knows how, finish the job. (No, Fulmer is NOT our guy. Leave the past where it belongs.)
 
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#43
#43
It's time to see if the University of Tennessee is satisfied with near bottom of the SEC for 3 years....I hope this is not what UT has become...another Vandy/Kentucky permanently! Who would have ever thought this school would sink this far?
 
#44
#44
Titan&Volfan4life said:
I'll have to disagree with you my frtiend and here's why...

It's way OVERexpecting to predict 8, 9 or 10 wins this season with basically the same team that packed it in and didn't even try to beat Kentucky last year.

All Summer I warned against this and said 7 Wins was a decent season, 8 was a good season and anything over 8 wins would be a great season.

THINK...We lost Da'rick Rogers because he's stupid and kept breaking rules and I also think he was a Cancer to our team especially to Bray BUR he was also our most physical WR that would use his body to shield off defenders better and he would fight for the ball so he was a big loss.

All smart people know that it takes 2 years to get a new 3-4 Defence down well so it's a really tough D to try and beat so anyone that thought our D would be good this season didn't know that or didn't pay attention as many times as I tried to explain this to everyone on here.

I agree with you that CDD fixed our running game much better than expected like he promised to do and our Offense is better than we've had in 10 years even without Da'rick Rogers but I knew our new 3-4 D would give up alot of big plays but I didn't expect quite this many to be honest.

The 3-4 is complicated and tough to learn but many times our kids do well and make great plays.

The biggest problem I see is on the shifts.

When the O makes shifts our D also has to make the right shifts and do it fast...but while we're still thinking and trying to make our shifts to get into the right positions the O snaps the ball fast and we get caught out of position and a big play or a big scoring play happens.

We also lost Randolph for the season and that hurts and Maggitt has had turf toe all season so I'm amazed that he can even play byt that toe problem slows him way doen and he's lost his PUSH to be able to get off blocks faster if at all and plays get past him.

We're so close to being a really good team and if only 3 to 5 plays per game had gone differently we would be a 1 loss team, ranked in the top 10 and already be the SEC East Champions heading to Atlanta and trying to figure out how to beat Bama for the SEC Championship.

Sadly, close doesn't count for this year.

VFL...GBO!!!
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Wow man, you really do love excuses don't you?

Let's see if I can translate this...

1. Expecting this team to win more than 7 games was silly considering how Dooley lost his team last year. Dooley should have lowered your expectations then. If you expect anything more than mediocrity from him now, then it's your fault, not his.

2. Da'Rick Rogers was a cancer to our team, but since he was kicked off, it has really hurt our team. Dooley had nothing to do with any of this.

3. Someone (don't know who. Maybe the same guy who couldn't control Da'Rick) decided this team should switch to a 3-4 and it is so tough to learn that your first year running it will obviously be the worst defense in your schools' 100 year history. Dooley also had nothing to do with this.

4. We had a couple of players get injured. This is a unique situation in college football.

5. If just 3-5 plays went differently each game, we could be winners. This is also a unique situation in college football.

6. Derek Dooley (hey look, he finally gets responsibility for something!) has single handedly improved our run game beyond what we thought possible to the level of 69th in the nation! Go Derek!

Wow, man. I don't know what to say. I guess I have to admire your passion for the guy.
 
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#45
#45
ImportedVoL said:
While I agree that those are the expectations, and Dooley has not lived up to them...

I STILL want to know who his replacement is BEFORE he gets fired... No point in the U spending that much money unless we get the right guy..

without the right guy.. all a move does is set us back a few more years.

Things need to be thought out before emotionally driven decisions get made that hurt the team in the long run..

I mean is there ANYONE who honestly thinks firing fulmer was still the right move? Would it even have been possible for fulmer to lose as many games in the last 4 years as Dooley and kiffin did?

It would have taken a decade for fulmer to lose that many IMO..

Fulmer haters bash away...
Click to expand...

A whole decade? LOL.

Coaches are not some kind of permanently stable commodity. They are capable of regressing with age themselves, because they're human and that's what humans do. Fulmer changed after 2001 whether people want to admit it or not. By 2008, he had shown no signs of leading this program back to greatness.
 
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#46
#46
I'm not a Kiffin lover, but he did get the players to play all out...even above their abilities....and he did at least bring some excitement back to Rocky Top. Dooley now has some of the fan base feeling empathy and the excitement...what excitement? Everyone expects us to lose....."we need an injection of new HC adrenaline" Loosing breaks your spirit after so long......
 
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#48
#48
25801VOL said:
From Saturdays the softer most posters get. By Wednesday of every loss most have decided to lower expectations and stick with CDD.

That's weak. Hell Zook was 16-8 during the same time CDD has went 4-16 and UF fired him. Not good ol rocky top.

Expectations should be. Compete for the East every year.

Win SEC once every 5-7 years.

National Championship contenders every 10 years.

Average 10 wins per season.

Anything less than that is just trash.
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Ignorance. Zook inherited a top 5 machjine and ran it in the ground. Dooley inherited a nuclear dump. Those are the expectations for a healthy UT program, and when we get healthy they will be again. But to impose those expectations on anybody that took this job 3 years ago is stupidity on a monstrous scale.
 
#49
#49
VolsSportsFan said:
I never knew a 2 point win was an ass whipping. If that's the case, then Dooley has had 5 for sure this year.

Zook also embarrassed us in our house in his first try.
Click to expand...

The 2 point ass whipping rule does not apply to Precious. Unless by some bizarre chance he were to administer it.
Pleas refer to your Doolrite members handbook.
 
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