The Atlanta Braves Thread (Terry Pendleton Edition)

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#3,126
#3,126
VOLinthaNATI said:
How exactly do you know that his arm could handle the workload of being a starter?
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Because anyone who can pitch professionally for 23 years without any arm trouble at all has pretty obviously got an arm that's been touched by God.

Besides, the dude can walk on water, so surely he could go out there and throw 100 pitches every five days like Paul Maholm can.
 
#3,129
#3,129
Mariano Rivera started exactly 10 games in the big leagues in his very first year. In 1995 he made 10 starts and appeared in 19 games. He pitched 67 innings total. Tells me he could not go deep into games.
 
#3,130
#3,130
VOLinthaNATI said:
Mariano Rivera started exactly 10 games in the big leagues in his very first year. In 1995 he made 10 starts and appeared in 19 games. He pitched 67 innings total. Tells me he could not go deep into games.
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He couldn't go deep into games because he sucked. He had an ERA of almost 6 and gave up 86 baserunners in 50 innings. Or maybe he just got worn out from backing up third base.
 
#3,131
#3,131
That year Rivera had an ERA of 2.70 in the 1st inning, 0.90 in the 2nd inning.....and then 10.24 in the 3rd, 2.89 in the 4th, 5.62 in the 5th, and 14.09 in the 6th. Gee, it's almost like he did all right the first time through the order, but got into trouble the second and third time through. Imagine that.
 
#3,133
#3,133
Vercingetorix said:
That year Rivera had an ERA of 2.70 in the 1st inning, 0.90 in the 2nd inning.....and then 10.24 in the 3rd, 2.89 in the 4th, 5.62 in the 5th, and 14.09 in the 6th. Gee, it's almost like he did all right the first time through the order, but got into trouble the second and third time through. Imagine that.
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Gee, I wonder if he even threw his cutter during that season? Can you look that up for me?
 
#3,134
#3,134
VOLinthaNATI said:
Gee, I wonder if he even threw his cutter during that season? Can you look that up for me?
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Oh, we all know that God descended from the heavens in 1997 and gave Mariano Rivera his cutter. That's part of the hagiography. You think that cutter would be the same pitch if he had to throw it 90 times in a game instead of 15?
 
#3,135
#3,135
Vercingetorix said:
Oh, we all know that God descended from the heavens in 1997 and gave Mariano Rivera his cutter. That's part of the hagiography. You think that cutter would be the same pitch if he had to throw it 90 times in a game instead of 15?
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No idea, but I do know that he threw it for 16 years and nobody could do anything with it.
 
#3,137
#3,137
VOLinthaNATI said:
No idea, but I do know that he threw it for 16 years and nobody could do anything with it.
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Well, unless you think that Rivera is a superhero who could somehow maintain the same velocity when going six innings that he has when pitching only one, then the question is whether you think that the cutter would be the same dominant pitch at 87 mph than it is at 92. I'm skeptical. I would predict that you're not.
 
#3,138
#3,138
Vercingetorix said:
Well, unless you think that Rivera is a superhero who could somehow maintain the same velocity when going six innings that he has when pitching only one, then the question is whether you think that the cutter would be the same dominant pitch at 87 mph than it is at 92. I'm skeptical. I would predict that you're not.
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Why do you keep saying superhero and things like that? Where did I say anything remotely close to any of the adjectives you have used to condescendingly describe him?

Of course his cutter would not be the same at 87 but that's assuming he'd lose 5mph over 6 innings. I have no idea if he would or he wouldn't but all things equal, if he could maintain his velocity with his cutter over 6 innings then I have no reason to believe hitters would be any better than they have been against him his whole career.
 
#3,139
#3,139
John Smoltz first season as a stater: 2-7 5.48 ERA

... Tommy Glavine 2-4 5.54 ERA

... Greg Maddux 6-14 5.52 ERA

... Mariano Rivera 5-3 5.51 ERA


Y'all drawing a conclusions that Mo Rivera was a horrible starting pitcher and would've never hacked it (as a SP) is very premature, and quite unreasonable. Bang.
 
#3,140
#3,140
Scotty's Flat Top said:
John Smoltz first season as a stater: 2-7 5.48 ERA

... Tommy Glavine 2-4 5.54 ERA

... Greg Maddux 6-14 5.52 ERA

... Mariano Rivera 5-3 5.51 ERA


Y'all drawing a conclusions that Mo Rivera was a horrible starting pitcher and would've never hacked it (as a SP) is very premature, and quite unreasonable. Bang.
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:hi:
 
#3,141
#3,141
VOLinthaNATI said:
Why do you keep saying superhero and things like that? Where did I say anything remotely close to any of the adjectives you have used to condescendingly describe him?

Of course his cutter would not be the same at 87 but that's assuming he'd lose 5mph over 6 innings. I have no idea if he would or he wouldn't but all things equal, if he could maintain his velocity with his cutter over 6 innings then I have no reason to believe hitters would be any better than they have been against him his whole career.
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Sorry, it's not aimed at you in particular. Just this idea that Mariano Rivera is a magical being, somehow exempt from the laws that govern mere mortal pitchers, is annoying, and right now that's all you hear anywhere.

He couldn't maintain the same velocity as a starter. No one can. I was just reading a thing the other day about how Aroldis Chapman is staying in the bullpen because he couldn't maintain enough velocity as a starter. Smoltz threw harder as a closer, and then dropped back down as a starter. Etc.

But anyway, I do think that pitch would still have been excellent at 87, and assuming he had a couple others to go with it, he could have been a good starter, though probably not immortal. He would have to have been a much different pitcher.
 
#3,142
#3,142
Vercingetorix said:
Sorry, it's not aimed at you in particular. Just this idea that Mariano Rivera is a magical being, somehow exempt from the laws that govern mere mortal pitchers, is annoying, and right now that's all you hear anywhere.

He couldn't maintain the same velocity as a starter. No one can. I was just reading a thing the other day about how Aroldis Chapman is staying in the bullpen because he couldn't maintain enough velocity as a starter. Smoltz threw harder as a closer, and then dropped back down as a starter. Etc.

But anyway, I do think that pitch would still have been excellent at 87, and assuming he had a couple others to go with it, he could have been a good starter, though probably not immortal. He would have to have been a much different pitcher.
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Not sure Justin Verlander would agree with this. Certainly there are others as well.

Either way, good discussion. Have a good weekend sir.

:hi:
 
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#3,143
#3,143
Just stumbled upn this:

183440.gif


The internet is great
 
#3,148
#3,148
Helton has accumulated a career Wins Above Replacement (WAR) mark of 61, an average of 3.6 per season. Rivera has 56 career WAR points, or 2.9 per season. And the only reason it’s that close is Helton’s late career fade that began in 2010 (Rivera has been better as an old closer than Helton has an old first baseman – we’ll concede that much). But during his rip-roaring 2000 to 2004 stretch, Helton put up an OPS of over 1.000 each year while averaging a 7.5 WAR.
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