Tennessee Vols Basketball Recruiting

#12,102
#12,102
Vols till I fall said:
You are acting like we are supposed to win every single recruiting battle.
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How is pointing out our lack of success against one particular school, a single program, saying that I think we should win every single recruiting battle? Is it not true that we largely don’t beat Calipari for recruits “he wants” as the Kentucky insider would put it?

That’s not even an indictment on our recruiting as very few schools, if any, best Kentucky for recruits. We’ve done a great job against other programs not named Kentucky. But going head to head with UK, especially when kids call them their “dream school” has typically resulted in getting beat. It’s simply pointing out a fact. Sorry if people don’t like to hear it.
 
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#12,107
#12,107
VolFreakJosh said:
Cal is a snake oil salesman that sells these kids on getting to the NBA.

Some kids fall for that BS.

It is what it is.
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I mean, if Cal does anything well it’s showcasing talent and getting kids to the NBA. It doesn’t always translate to CBB wins, but it’s hard to argue he’s a “snake oil salesman” selling that he can get kids to the NBA. He’s quite literally the best in the business at doing it.
 
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#12,109
#12,109
It is cool to see how sour the UK fans are towards Cal right now. A lot of them want him gone because they’re tired of not going to the Final 4 anymore. They put up with the fact that there were new rosters every year and players leaving early when they were going to the F4 but now their patience is running thin with him.
 
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#12,110
#12,110
berryvol said:
I mean, if Cal does anything well it’s showcasing talent and getting kids to the NBA. It doesn’t always translate to CBB wins, but it’s hard to argue he’s a “snake oil salesman” selling that he can get kids to the NBA. He’s quite literally the best in the business at doing it.
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A lot of those players he got to the NBA, would have still been drafted at any other school based on potential.
 
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#12,111
#12,111
VolFreakJosh said:
A lot of those players he got to the NBA, would have still been drafted at any other school based on potential.[/QUOTE

You’re stating the obvious on the binary issue of whether a player of that skill level would/wouldn’t be drafted. In fairness, Cal has a style of play that allows talented kids to get on the floor quickly and show their athleticism and skills in one on one matchups and on defense. It’s hard to contest his success there. Barnes provides something much more valuable in my mind. He shows that skilled players can fit inside a team defensive scheme and play in a structured/collaborative offense. I’d make the case that players like Chandler make more sooner by being able to answer doubts about discipline, coachability and team play. Kat fans like to pretend like that’s an outdated argument, but I think signing players like Phillips suggest that they see the growth and how it ends up effecting draft position and money.
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#12,113
#12,113
If Cal's players left high school for the NBA vs going to Kentucky, their draft status is unchanged. Sadly that's likely also the case with Edwards, should he chose to go there and lose to us next year (2023-24).
 
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#12,115
#12,115
Stoerner Fumbles said:
That’s a proven fiction.
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Kentucky's highest draft pick didn't play a second this season, and that wasn't even the first time that happened. His run of 5 star 1 and dones would not have suffered if the straight to the NBA route had been available. Wall, Cousins, Towns, Davis, etc are all still 1st round/lottery types without stepping foot on campus.
 
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#12,116
#12,116
TheMookieMonster said:
How is pointing out our lack of success against one particular school, a single program, saying that I think we should win every single recruiting battle? Is it not true that we largely don’t beat Calipari for recruits “he wants” as the Kentucky insider would put it?

That’s not even an indictment on our recruiting as very few schools, if any, best Kentucky for recruits. We’ve done a great job against other programs not named Kentucky. But going head to head with UK, especially when kids call them their “dream school” has typically resulted in getting beat. It’s simply pointing out a fact. Sorry if people don’t like to hear it.
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Did they beat us out for another player?
 
#12,117
#12,117
There’s an open door from Kentucky to the NBA due to hype and mystique. Barnes prepares players to kick the door down and take it.
 
#12,118
#12,118
VolArmy74 said:
Kentucky's highest draft pick didn't play a second this season, and that wasn't even the first time that happened. His run of 5 star 1 and dones would not have suffered if the straight to the NBA route had been available. Wall, Cousins, Towns, Davis, etc are all still 1st round/lottery types without stepping foot on campus.
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Your original post referred to “Cal’s players”. Now it’s Wall Cousins and Towns. There has been a pretty rich body of statistical work done on this topic because other coaches want to disprove his value in improving draft stock. The numbers say stock improves. If you want to point to players where their stock went down meaningfully, try Tyrese Maxey, Hamidou Diallo and Brandon Boston Jr. Those guys went undrafted after being projected to go, then did very well in the league. Not a good look for Cal’s case. On the other hand, you have Devin Booker, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Tyler Herro, who all did better than their pre-college projections. The stats favor that story over a long period. Lately, people are figuring out Cal’s game, and abusing his poor use of spacing and outside shot creation. St. Peters really beat them on that front. As for the top of the top of his classes, generally they do better than pre-college projections. Your example of Sharpe is a weird one since he didn’t play, but even he went up from his post EYBL/FIBA projections. Sometimes just letting excitement build for a year is enough. Cal has the most first rounders of any coach over his 13 years. Many did not begin college as first round projections. While I tend to think Cal’s stock and strategies are trending down, he can still say he raises the stock of his players for the draft. None of that implies I like him as a coach, or want to inherit his model. Barnes is a better coach, a better man, and develops players better. It’s just wrong to say that the numbers show that Cal’s players would have the same results as they would being drafted out of HS.
 
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#12,122
#12,122
volfaninky said:
I get why you say that BUT… the previous coaches not named Rick Pitino weren’t bringing in those kids that Cal does. It’s not because it’s Ky imo. Because with that mentality then auburn and Alabama wouldn’t be getting the kids they are.
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Kentucky can't take everyone, though. With only 13 scholarships, there will always be scraps.

I think it is a mix of both. Cal is an elite recruiter. He was at Memphis, he is at UK. At the same time, Kentucky is the basketball version of Notre Dame football. Decades and decades of success, the gold standard in their sport, and even in their "lean years" they are still competitive. There is a mystique about UK, Rupp Arena, their rich history, etc. That kind of tradition and reputation recruits itself. You marry that to a recruiter like Calipari, and you have a powerhouse recruiting machine, which is what they've been for 13 years, now. It hasn't always translated to F4-level success, but on paper, they always seem to have F4-level talent, which explains their lofty (sometimes bloated) preseason ranking every year.
 
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#12,123
#12,123
volfaninky said:
Cal is the worst x and o’s coach in the SEC, but the best recruiter
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It’s impossible to determine who is the best / worst x & o’s coach. What criteria are you using to determine who is good or bad at x & o’s?

Cal has the resources at Kentucky to hire top assistants who are strong at x & o’s if he’s lacking. He’s also had high level of success at 2 prior schools so he must not suck at coaching basketball. While he’s probably not a technical savant, the many years of results simply don’t match up with a guy who just “rolls the balls out”. Hate the guy if you want for his past shady recruiting issues - no need to create a narrative to dislike him. FWIW, CRB appears to be friendly with him so maybe Cal isn’t as bad as you think? JMO, TIFWIW, AARP
 
#12,124
#12,124
walkenvol said:
It’s impossible to determine who is the best / worst x & o’s coach. What criteria are you using to determine who is good or bad at x & o’s?

Cal has the resources at Kentucky to hire top assistants who are strong at x & o’s if he’s lacking. He’s also had high level of success at 2 prior schools so he must not suck at coaching basketball. While he’s probably not a technical savant, the many years of results simply don’t match up with a guy who just “rolls the balls out”. Hate the guy if you want for his past shady recruiting issues - no need to create a narrative to dislike him. FWIW, CRB appears to be friendly with him so maybe Cal isn’t as bad as you think? JMO, TIFWIW, AARP
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Criteria, as with most Tennessee fans, is probably "I hate Cal the most so he sucks the most".

Cal is not the worst Xs and Os coach in the SEC. First off, Mike White still coaches in the SEC, so he automatically is at the bottom, and aside from that, the SEC is home to 5 new head coaches, all with a lot to prove in a conference full of good coaches.
 
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#12,125
#12,125
The guys cal gets to nba we’re going there regardless of school pick. It’s not rocket science when you pulling top 15 players all the time. Those guys are going where they are going in draft regardless
 
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