Tennessee Not On Many Top Players Considerations

#52
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#54

OrangeBeachVol

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#54
I think she has all the tools necessary to be a successful P5 coach. She is now coaching against some of the best HC's in WBB. She will get better just going head to head against them. Just needs to get the program to where she can convince some of the top players to come to TN. Winning and time should take care of that. Use the portal effectively for quicker results.
 
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#57

vettefool

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#57
Great post. Look at Arizona. The coach there had nothing to sell but vision and has not one, but two really quick guards! I may be biased as I am not a graduate of UT, but I think KJH has a great set of values and can also sell UT. I ran D1 track in the 1980s and spent two to three weekends every year at then track power UT. My college (UNC) is beautiful, but I thought the general atmosphere at UT is as good if not better than UNC. The mountains and the people are just that nice. Anyway, I am pulling for KJH. She can get better, but she is far better than her immediate predecessor.
Welp she is a lot better than our last so called coach. Therefore the need to rebuild, not from the bottom, but from lower level mediocre.. Hope Kellie is up to it, but unless she improves recruiting we will still be mediocre at best. Seems like so many teams have passed us by.
 
#59

BruceInLouisville

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#59
Results of looking at the site:
2021 class: Tennessee has zero recruits
2022 class: Tennessee listed by #43, #45, #62
2023 class: Tennessee listed by #33 -- BUT, by far most listings are for "None"

So, not top ten, or top twenty.

One other thing: I put ZERO faith in rankings of recruits before they get to college. So, YMMV.
 
#60

VA_VOLFAN

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#60
Results of looking at the site:
2021 class: Tennessee has zero recruits
2022 class: Tennessee listed by #43, #45, #62
2023 class: Tennessee listed by #33 -- BUT, by far most listings are for "None"

So, not top ten, or top twenty.

One other thing: I put ZERO faith in rankings of recruits before they get to college. So, YMMV.
I think your classes are all off by a year.
 
#61
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#61
I think your classes are all off by a year.
Justine Pissott is a great recruit in c/o 2022 and can play several positions. She's 6'4" and can shoot the 3 consistently....very solid, versatile game.

We are on lists of others in '22, '23, and '24. Kellie and staff are quiet in recruiting efforts, but they are out there. I've been told recruits like what they are building at Tennessee....just gonna take a little time.
 
#62

VA_VOLFAN

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#62
Justine Pissott is a great recruit in c/o 2022 and can play several positions. She's 6'4" and can shoot the 3 consistently....very solid, versatile game.

We are on lists of others in '22, '23, and '24. Kellie and staff are quiet in recruiting efforts, but they are out there. I've been told recruits like what they are building at Tennessee....just gonna take a little time.
I believe you. The person just had the classes off as far as recruits. Our 21’ class has 4 players and he has their ranking with 22’ and Justine with 23’
 
#63

#1LVLS MAN 4 LIFE

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#63
Suggested Recruiting Principles:
  1. Recruit a dynamic and dominant point guard every year.
  2. Recruit your strengths, size and athleticism matters.
  3. Speed still kills, especially lateral speed.
  4. In recruiting you must dominate your state, your conference, and the nation at large.
  5. Win the minds and support of AAU coaches as much as possible, Relationships.
  6. A visit should tell a story and provide an experience that sell their dreams to themselves.
  7. Master the follow up no matter how bad it looks, sometimes the get is in a changed mind.
  8. Always stack and develop players and classes.
  9. Communicate positively and as often as possible through different types of media. Relationships.
  10. Win, Win, Win, and Win some more.
 
#67

NeedOrange

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#67
vicious circle:
Tennessee will not re-establish themselves as an elite WCBB program until the top players consider the program
For reference see University of Arizona 2020-2021. National Championship Finalist box
Cate Reese HG #12 (highest ranking ever for AZ), Lauren Ware HG #26, Aari McDonald HG#55, Sam Thomas HG # 92, Shaina Pellington Not Ranked, Bendu Yeaney Not Ranked, Trinity Baptiste Not Ranked.

Now have commitment from 22 HG#18 Kaylin Gilbert. KJH is on the right track.
 
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#68
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#68
Today's high school athletes are "woke" -- they have strong opinions about social justice and equality and are not shy about voicing and acting on them. Perhaps these opinions are strongly integrated, or perhaps they are emulating their heroes in college and professional sports. Maybe a bit of both.

Reports in State and National media over the last year have highlighted areas of TN public policy that run counter to their ideals (if I list any of these there is no chance this post will survive). Colleges in the state of Georgia are facing the same issue. Coaches from other colleges are using this information -- fairly or unfairly -- when they are competing with TN colleges for top players. Their are even publications urging high school senior athletes to make their views about what they chose not to attend a certain state's schools public if it relates to this issue.

Coaches and administrators are reluctant to talk about it, for obvious reasons. But ignoring it won't help and I don't think this is going to go away.
As long as Kim keeps getting top recruits (and transfers) at Baylor, I’m not putting a ton of stock into this position.
 
#69

creekdipper

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#69
Alabama is one of the least wokiest places around. Hasn't hurt their football recruiting nary one bit.

I'd propose some alternative theories as to why the top recruits cluster around a few schools each year:

Today's athletes tend to be more about instant gratification than delayed success or the satisfication in building a new legacy.

The top recruits envision a pro career in their futures and gravitate toward the programs which will give them more tv exposure and media attention.

Paralleling that, top recruits feel that they'll get the best coaching snd face better practice competition at the current top schools.

Then there are the old standbys...location, academics, name recognition (of both the coaches and the schools), and the increased odds of winning championships (self-perpetuating cycle).

And, of course, the fact that winning is more fun than not winning.
 
#70
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#70
Alabama is one of the least wokiest places around. Hasn't hurt their football recruiting nary one bit.

I'd propose some alternative theories as to why the top recruits cluster around a few schools each year:

Today's athletes tend to be more about instant gratification than delayed success or the satisfication in building a new legacy.

The top recruits envision a pro career in their futures and gravitate toward the programs which will give them more tv exposure and media attention.

Paralleling that, top recruits feel that they'll get the best coaching snd face better practice competition at the current top schools.

Then there are the old standbys...location, academics, name recognition (of both the coaches and the schools), and the increased odds of winning championships (self-perpetuating cycle).

And, of course, the fact that winning is more fun than not winning.
It is easier to recruit from the top because of the factors you mention above.
 
#71

TJVol95

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#71
I noticed on ESPN HoopGurlz list from 2021 players, many of the top players didn’t even consider Tennessee. I wonder if Kellie and her team are gelling well when they are reaching out to these top players?
We are not elite. We haven’t been relevant for many years. Tough for orange glasses wearers to hear.
 
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#72

madtownvol

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#72
For reference see University of Arizona 2020-2021. National Championship Finalist box
Cate Reese HG #12 (highest ranking ever for AZ), Lauren Ware HG #26, Aari McDonald HG#55, Sam Thomas HG # 92, Shaina Pellington Not Ranked, Bendu Yeaney Not Ranked, Trinity Baptiste Not Ranked.

Now have commitment from 22 HG#18 Kaylin Gilbert. KJH is on the right track.

The ratings are always an approximation and a lot depends on whether a player is able to get to key tournaments, etc to get scouted by the services. It is a great to get high ranked recruits but there can be lots of undervalued talent at lower ranks. Plus, players can develop quite a bit while in college. I don't think Rae was all that highly ranked either.
 
#73

Amb3096

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#73
The ratings are always an approximation and a lot depends on whether a player is able to get to key tournaments, etc to get scouted by the services. It is a great to get high ranked recruits but there can be lots of undervalued talent at lower ranks. Plus, players can develop quite a bit while in college. I don't think Rae was all that highly ranked either.
I think this is true for the bottom 75% or so of the top 100. The top 25% is fairly consistent form service to service...especially the top 10. Those are the players that more often than not will make an immediate impact for a team as a freshman. So while there might not be a huge difference between #20 and #40, there is a huge difference between #5 and #40. For players like Rae, it took until her junior year to improve to 2nd team All-SEC, and even then, I don't think her level is high enough to build a team around...and those are the teams that will make FFs and win NCs.

Player development is important, but invariably, a team that recruits a class full of top 10 players will be more successful after 3 years than a team that recruits a class full of 50-100 players and works to develop them.
 
#74

madtownvol

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#74
I think this is true for the bottom 75% or so of the top 100. The top 25% is fairly consistent form service to service...especially the top 10. Those are the players that more often than not will make an immediate impact for a team as a freshman. So while there might not be a huge difference between #20 and #40, there is a huge difference between #5 and #40. For players like Rae, it took until her junior year to improve to 2nd team All-SEC, and even then, I don't think her level is high enough to build a team around...and those are the teams that will make FFs and win NCs.

Player development is important, but invariably, a team that recruits a class full of top 10 players will be more successful after 3 years than a team that recruits a class full of 50-100 players and works to develop them.

Agreed. Where we may differ is on how do you get there. Right now, just stating facts, the LVS are not a destination program, like Stanford, SC, Uconn, Baylor and a few others. So, what is the plan B? Kellie builds a team by finding undervalued talent and creating synergies, where the team as a whole is better than the sum of its individual players. A team like that gets to the Sweet 16 and maybe even the elite 8. Then you get back on the top 10 recruits radar screens.
 
#75

Amb3096

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#75
Agreed. Where we may differ is on how do you get there. Right now, just stating facts, the LVS are not a destination program, like Stanford, SC, Uconn, Baylor and a few others. So, what is the plan B? Kellie builds a team by finding undervalued talent and creating synergies, where the team as a whole is better than the sum of its individual players. A team like that gets to the Sweet 16 and maybe even the elite 8. Then you get back on the top 10 recruits radar screens.
The Vic Shaefer-MSST Model: it's the proverbial chicken-egg game. I said last year that for her first few years, Kellie would have to do more with less to give recruits an incentive to come to Tennessee. I think where it gets tough is that SC is killing them in the south/SEC territory recruiting right now, and other programs are up and coming as well. S16 might not even be enough; we see with the transfer portal that the current crop of recruits seem to have little interest in rebuilding and want to win now/play now.

I think that this season and next season become very important for Kellie to set the tone for the program moving forward, especially since she'll have to make do without Rennia this season and Rae after next season. There's enough talent on the team to work with, but she needs to keep the momentum moving forward with performance and some degree of recruiting success...otherwise, the year after Horston/Key graduate will be very tough.
 

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