Teens throw sand bags off overpass only one gets jail time

[DinkinFlicka]

Yeah lets just send the message that murder is no big deal.

That's far from the only alternative, you rube. Piss off.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

What is entailed in this “treatment”

I'm open to hearing about it instead of spending tens of millions to further facilitate deviant behavior.

 

[tumscalcium]

I'm open to hearing about it instead of spending tens of millions to further facilitate deviant behavior.

Bullets don’t cost much.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Bullets don’t cost much.

Hell I'd do that before imprisonment.

 

[barknoxbrawler]

Bullets don’t cost much.

A rope and a tree are cheaper and can be reused if bulllets don’t cost much is your logic.

 

[tumscalcium]

A rope and a tree are cheaper and can be reused if bulllets don’t cost much is your logic.

Depends on the branch, but yes. There are much cheaper ways.

 

[LouderVol]

Nahh...they didn't kill a "bunch".

and ruined his family's life. at least a wife and kid. thank God the counseling will take care of it and keep everyone safe.

 

[LouderVol]

That's far from the only alternative, you rube. Piss off.

do your murdering while you are young, so that it is forgiven as a "young and dumb" moment?

 

[therealUT]

do your murdering while you are young, so that it is forgiven as a "young and dumb" moment?

Who has forgiven these kids?

Saying that we should try to give these kids an opportunity in life is not the same as saying they are forgiven.

 

[therealUT]

do your murdering while you are young, so that it is forgiven as a "young and dumb" moment?

I did my murdering as an adult.

 

[LouderVol]

Who has forgiven these kids?

Saying that we should try to give these kids an opportunity in life is not the same as saying they are forgiven.

ironic coming from you.

they had their chance, they ruined it.

 

[LouderVol]

I did my murdering as an adult.

good point, wear a uniform on the winning side.

 

[therealUT]

ironic coming from you.

they had their chance, they ruined it.

Where's the irony?

 

[therealUT]

good point, wear a uniform on the winning side.

We won in Iraq? Who knew?

 

[therealUT]

In 1990/91, an eighth grader showed up to my school with a rifle. He went to start shooting and the rifle jammed. One of the teachers, Maureen Huppe, tackled the kid, and the other teachers were able to restrain him.

The school officials called his parents, not the police. He spent a few weeks in inpatient psychological care. After that, he continued to receive counseling through high school.

He's now a productive member of the community, a father, a husband, and a good person. The only reason he didn't kill anyone was a simple mechanical failure.

Not all 13 year old kids who do terrible things are lost. Not all should be forsaken.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

do your murdering while you are young, so that it is forgiven as a "young and dumb" moment?

That's an awfully close minded response. It's not automatic forgiveness to give them a chance to be fixed.

Once again, it's not a simple solution. Would you honestly choose executing children or spending about 10 million bucks incarcerating them for life instead of at least trying to readjust them for a few years first?

 

[DinkinFlicka]

good point, wear a uniform on the winning side.

Lol wut

 

[Orangeslice13]

ironic coming from you.

they had their chance, they ruined it.

We should consider late late late late term abortion with these kids

 

[LouderVol]

Where's the irony?

your minimize their death until 3 or 4.

I guess they shouldn't be given the same chance at life, yet alone any of the unborn fetus's not having a chance at life.

and you have never tied person hood and one being alive so you would probably admit there being a difference.

 

[LouderVol]

We won in Iraq? Who knew?

as an American, wearing an American uniform, and currently living in America, I would consider that winning.

but yeah there was no winning over there at all.

 

[LouderVol]

In 1990/91, an eighth grader showed up to my school with a rifle. He went to start shooting and the rifle jammed. One of the teachers, Maureen Huppe, tackled the kid, and the other teachers were able to restrain him.

The school officials called his parents, not the police. He spent a few weeks in inpatient psychological care. After that, he continued to receive counseling through high school.

He's now a productive member of the community, a father, a husband, and a good person. The only reason he didn't kill anyone was a simple mechanical failure.

Not all 13 year old kids who do terrible things are lost. Not all should be forsaken.

and if these sandbaggers had just tossed and no one had been killed I would be saying something different. I would even be saying something different if the victim had just been hurt.

 

[therealUT]

your minimize their death until 3 or 4.

I guess they shouldn't be given the same chance at life, yet alone any of the unborn fetus's not having a chance at life.

and you have never tied person hood and one being alive so you would probably admit there being a difference.

Oh great, this conversation, again.

 

[therealUT]

and if these sandbaggers had just tossed and no one had been killed I would be saying something different. I would even be saying something different if the victim had just been hurt.

So, it's not their action or behavior you wish to punish, but the consequences. So, you're a consequentialist, then? Interesting.

 

[1972 Grad]

So, it's not their action or behavior you wish to punish, but the consequences. So, you're a consequentialist, then? Interesting.

Is the sentence for murder usually the same as attempted murder?

 

[therealUT]

Is the sentence for murder usually the same as attempted murder?

No, and there are plenty of reasons for that. Reason number one is that our sentencing approach, and that of the Western industrialized world since the mid-1700s, is non-retributive. We approach, as a government, sentencing as either deterrent or corrective.

That said, the vast majority of responses in this thread are responses calling for retribution (i.e., they should be punished harshly merely for what they did). But, retribution focuses on the badness of the person. A person that attempts to kill someone, but fails due to reasons beyond their control, is just as bad as the person who succeeds. If I go to murder you, but my gun jams, I am no better than the man who goes to murder you whose gun does not jam.

The only theory that denies this claim is consequentialism. I find it quite difficult to believe that Louder is a committed or consistent consequentialist, seeing as he takes pretty hard-line non-consequentialist stances on almost every issue.