Tebow finished

#152
#152
TBrown said:
Pierre garçon imo. His career has crashed and is burning.. With receptions, yards, and dollar signs.
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Going from the #2 option at best and sometimes #3 option in one offense to the #1 option on another NFL team wouldn't be considered a career crash and burn scenario. He's an often injured player though which hurts his yearly stats.
 
#154
#154
TennesseeFan07 said:
I want Tebow to succeed, but no franchise wants his sideshow to distract the other 52 guys. His celebrity status and constant being covered by the media is killing any chance he ever has of playing in the NFL. Instead of taking him for what he is, a solid backup, everyone either wants to anoint him as a starter or whine that he should be cut. It creates too much friction for the other quarterbacks competing with him.
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How do you figure he's a solid backup?

The "media circus" excuse is highly overblown; if he was good enough to be a #2, he'd be one, period.
 
#155
#155
n_huffhines said:
The ones who could use Tebow are stupid for not having him. When Tebow has played in games, he has been successful.

The Jets didn't play him. Neither did the Patriots (though they are one of the teams that I don't think would want him in the first place). Saying he failed in those places is technically true, but we all know scouting is flawed. That's why Kurt Warner sits the bench behind Trent Green (no, I'm not saying Tebow=Warner). We don't know what would have happened had he been given a real opportunity.
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Basically Tebow has a 50% successful rate, if you even want to be that generous and overlook his horrible QB rating, completion percentage, and the fact he cannot consistently pass; I fail to see why so many seem to think that means he'd be a positive for a team.

So again, you're down to either believing the vast majority of teams don't have the intelligence to adequately judge Tebow, or Tebow is simply not good enough to be in the NFL. I'm going to side with the NFL.
 
#156
#156
005 said:
Seriously gonna say Edge just wasn't very good? Clark?

I don't think anyone, even at the time, thought Addai, Brown, Tamme were really that good.

I do get your point that yeah, the stats say they had their best years then... And they do. But nobody was crowning them due to those stats. Because people can think beyond statistics.
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Edge left for more money and it didn't work out. Pollard left for more money. It didn't work out. I don't really know what your point is. If Addai had been a FA at the right time, you know he would have gone for big money. He was a freaking pro-bowler. 4 years later he couldn't make a team and he was only like 28 years old.
 
#157
#157
VolsSportsFan said:
Basically Tebow has a 50% successful rate, if you even want to be that generous and overlook his horrible QB rating, completion percentage, and the fact he cannot consistently pass; I fail to see why so many seem to think that means he'd be a positive for a team.
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Because he makes a poor running team into the best rushing team in the NFL. I don't know why it's so hard for haters to see the value there. I'm not saying he's winning a SB with that scheme, but he's better than the majority of 3rd string QBs with that scheme.

If you think most 3rd string QB could take that Broncos team to the playoffs then you haven't watched enough football.
 
#158
#158
So his few games and some possibly lucky wins is a big enough sample size to fool around with?

There are reasons he doesn't have a job. Part talent, part circus. 80/20 split, maybe?
 
#159
#159
005 said:
So his few games and some possibly lucky wins is a big enough sample size to fool around with?

There are reasons he doesn't have a job. Part talent, part circus. 80/20 split, maybe?
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No. It's not a big enough sample size. But it's still more meaningful than what most 3rd string QBs have on their resumes. Consider that Kyle Orton, who has a career winning record went 1-4 with those Broncos and then signed with the average Chiefs and went 2-1.

Kyle Orton was a lot better than almost all 3rd string QBs and Tebow took his mess and made it into a playoff team.
 
#160
#160
n_huffhines said:
No. It's not a big enough sample size. But it's still more meaningful than what most 3rd string QBs have on their resumes. Consider that Kyle Orton, who has a career winning record went 1-4 with those Broncos and then signed with the average Chiefs and went 2-1.

Kyle Orton was a lot better than almost all 3rd string QBs and Tebow took his mess and made it into a playoff team.
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The problem is you keep giving Tebow all the credit for that, and that's just crap. Tebow didn't make Marion Barber run out of bounds like a moron, which if he hadn't the Broncos lose that game. The Broncos also happened to play in the worst division in the NFL that year and only made the playoffs because the Raiders lost the last weekend.

Whereas you look at that and see Tebow = winner, most everyone else, including apparently the rest of the NFL, looks at it as mostly luck and highly fortunate circumstances.
 
#161
#161
n_huffhines said:
Because he makes a poor running team into the best rushing team in the NFL. I don't know why it's so hard for haters to see the value there. I'm not saying he's winning a SB with that scheme, but he's better than the majority of 3rd string QBs with that scheme.

If you think most 3rd string QB could take that Broncos team to the playoffs then you haven't watched enough football.
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I've watched enough football to know that division was by far the worst in the NFL that year, and even then the Broncos backed into the playoffs.
 
#162
#162
n_huffhines said:
Because he makes a poor running team into the best rushing team in the NFL. I don't know why it's so hard for haters to see the value there. I'm not saying he's winning a SB with that scheme, but he's better than the majority of 3rd string QBs with that scheme.

If you think most 3rd string QB could take that Broncos team to the playoffs then you haven't watched enough football.
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In 2011, the Broncos were 6th in yards per rush at 4.8. That was closer to the average (4.3) than they were to the #1 team (5.4). Meanwhile they were 29th in passing yards per attempt, with by far the fewest passing attempts in the league. Put them together and they were 25th in scoring.

People don't see the value in what he does for a team's running game because it's not worth what it does to the passing game, and therefore a team's overall scoring. What he costs hurts worse than the value he brings.
 
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#163
#163
VolsSportsFan said:
The problem is you keep giving Tebow all the credit for that, and that's just crap.
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VolsSportsFan said:
I've watched enough football to know that division was by far the worst in the NFL that year, and even then the Broncos backed into the playoffs.
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We can't even have a conversation cause you just make **** up or make irrelevant points.

Exactly how many 3rd string QBs have backed into the playoffs? It doesn't really matter how he made the playoffs. Tebow is in the small minority of NFL QBs with a playoff win.
 
#164
#164
Vercingetorix said:
People don't see the value in what he does for a team's running game because it's not worth what it does to the passing game, and therefore a team's overall scoring. What he costs hurts worse than the value he brings.
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What I don't understand is why you can't see that Tebow has more value than the 3rd string QBs who can't throw or run.
 
#165
#165
n_huffhines said:
What I don't understand is why you can't see that Tebow has more value than the 3rd string QBs who can't throw or run.
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Nobody wants to pay a 3rd string QB millions - if he takes what someone offers fine, but he (or his agent) wont.
 
#166
#166
n_huffhines said:
We can't even have a conversation cause you just make **** up or make irrelevant points.

Exactly how many 3rd string QBs have backed into the playoffs? It doesn't really matter how he made the playoffs. Tebow is in the small minority of NFL QBs with a playoff win.
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What exactly am I making up or posting that is irrelevant? Are you seriously going to sit there and act like it was all Tebow as the reason they made the playoffs? If you're not saying that, you sure as heck could have fooled me, considering you said HE took them to the playoffs.

And speaking of irrelevant, what does it matter if he does have a playoff win? That somehow makes him a better choice as a 3rd string QB? Again I point out for about the 5th time, if any NFL team felt he was a better option than what they have at 3rd string, he'd be on a roster. Period.

Maybe you just don't want to think about the possibility that NFL coaches and owners look at that playoff victory is a much different light, i.e. they won in spite of Tebow, not because of him.
 
#169
#169
VolsSportsFan said:
What exactly am I making up or posting that is irrelevant? Are you seriously going to sit there and act like it was all Tebow as the reason they made the playoffs?
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This is exactly what you make up. It's called a straw man. Never did I say Tebow was the only reason (and even if I did, it could only be hyperbole) they made the playoffs. All I'm saying is he is one of the few QBs who has been good enough to win a playoff game. Never would I argue that he is the reason they made the playoffs. You attribute that argument to me, then you strike it down. That is why there is no need to have a conversation. You are conversing with yourself.
 
#170
#170
n_huffhines said:
What I don't understand is why you can't see that Tebow has more value than the 3rd string QBs who can't throw or run.
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The job of a 3rd string QB is to run the normal offense as normally as possible, in practice and occasionally in an emergency. Tebow can't pass well enough to do that. The value of his running is useless in that role. You can't waste practice time learning the option on the off chance your backup has to come in.

When the wildcat was in vogue a few years ago, I assumed somebody would use Tebow in a regular fullback/wildcat role, but that's never happened. Maybe Tebow himself refuses to consider anything that's not QB-only. And now I don't think anyone in the NFL ever uses the wildcat anymore anyway.
 
#172
#172
n_huffhines said:
This is exactly what you make up. It's called a straw man. Never did I say Tebow was the only reason (and even if I did, it could only be hyperbole) they made the playoffs. All I'm saying is he is one of the few QBs who has been good enough to win a playoff game. Never would I argue that he is the reason they made the playoffs. You attribute that argument to me, then you strike it down. That is why there is no need to have a conversation. You are conversing with yourself.
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n_huffhines said:
Tebow took his mess and made it into a playoff team.
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n_huffhines said:
If you think most 3rd string QB could take that Broncos team to the playoffs then you haven't watched enough football.
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Somehow I doubt you were simply using hyperbole, as I also doubt that all you were trying to say is he's won a playoff game.
 
#173
#173
Tebow is so sought after in the NFL that it's making headlines every day. Where will he bounce to for the big payoff?
 
#175
#175
VolsSportsFan said:
Somehow I doubt you were simply using hyperbole, as I also doubt that all you were trying to say is he's won a playoff game.
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Those quotes don't imply that Tebow is THE reason they went to the playoffs. He is A reason. Don't know what your point is.
 
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