Sweeping Sexual Assault Suit Filed Against UT

[37620VOL]

Have there been any criminal proceedings in any of these cases?

 

[Weezer]

All right. Astound me. Show me a viable, documented percentage of false accusations of rape versus convictions that will convince me that there's a significant enough number of cases to overthrow the protection of the victims in the REAL cases.

Because until you can do that? Your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. You can't take away the protection afforded to thousands because of the lies of the two.

I'll wait. Happy googling.

So are you or are you not against equal anonymity for both sides? To paraphrase JFK, "The rights of every person are diminished when the rights of one person are threatened."

 

[BowlBrother85]

I do understand what you're saying but this probably took place more than just a few days ago so they(Butch,etc.) know this player involved that's being referred to as "John Doe". They know obviously more than we do so something has to be announced/done about this supposed "current' football player.

Maybe we here something from Butch about this current football player in the coming days ahead. Hopefully sooner rather than later. I just hope this "current" player isn't any big name even though it's sad no matter who the player involved is to be.

This is an awful story. We can only hope that this turns out for the better for our university not just our sports programs. This could scare lots & lots of females from attending UT in the future if proven to be true!

Right... Women in our state will just have to go to Vanderbilt to be safe, I guess. No chance that a rape could ever be committed by football players on that campus is there? At least not one that Anita Wadhwani will care about.

 

[Weezer]

Maybe not you, but a large percentage will, and you know it's true.

Do I know it's true? A large percentage? No, I don't. I know some idiots will, and I think they should be dealt with, but a large percentage? I don't know how true that is. Often the minority opinion carries a larger voice.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

First, thank you for a civil post. Yes, I agree with you. I believe that in ANY type of he-said, she-said situation both names should be kept out of the public arena. However, to argue that a supposed victim should be paraded around the court of public opinion just because the accused is... Well, that's a case of 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Especially when that wrong includes a person who will be downright crucified for even accusing the other party. This board we are on now should show you that the majority of people are going to give the accused all the slack they need.

Of course they are, but the female involved *usually* gets a ton of slack as well. I'm not saying rape accusations come out of thin air all the time, but it has happened. The female accuser probably still got all the slack in the world and a slap on the wrist.

Just feel like someone has to stand up for the ones being accused in situations now, whether they committed the crime or not. Females and seemingly liberals want so much to come out of a rape accusation and crime but never want to look inward. I just want a fair trial and fair name sharing in the media.

 

[EZE]

He used alleged because that is exactly the correct term. Nothing has been proven,only allegations from these women. Let's be clear, they have a case then bring criminal charges. Saying they were victims doesn't make it so. Just ask Rolling Stone and the University of Va. that sometimes is not the case. This case is a non starter but will be settled because it's cheaper. Your views are decidedly one sided. These woman chose to sign on to the lawsuit let them come forward, not hide behind the lawsuit.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[CAVPUT]

All right. Astound me. Show me a viable, documented percentage of false accusations of rape versus convictions that will convince me that there's a significant enough number of cases to overthrow the protection of the victims in the REAL cases.

Because until you can do that? Your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. You can't take away the protection afforded to thousands because of the lies of the two.

I'll wait. Happy googling.

Ah...so now it comes down to percentages? What's an acceptable number of false allegations and lives ruined in your book? One, ten, fifty? But let's not get off topic here. This isn't about percentages. This is about a fundamental principle that an individual is innocent until proven guilty. My complaint is that the accused gets named, shamed and ruined while the accuser gets the protection of anonymity. Either both are named or both are protected until guilt/innocence is determined. Why is that such a problem? Again, I don't want a single rapist to go unpunished. I also don't want a single innocent man to be ruined by a false allegation. You seem to be fine with any damage done to a man as long as the woman is protected at all costs. I cannot and will not accept that line of thought. Both parties are human beings with families, lives, feelings and futures. Neither one is more or less important than the other.

 

[mscelinaVol]

So are you or are you not against equal anonymity for both sides? To paraphrase JFK, "The rights of every person are diminished when the rights of one person are threatened."

How could they all possibly remain anonymous? AJ Johnson and Michael Williams are about to go to TRIAL. Their names have been out for what--a year and a half BEFORE today? How in the name of bleeding Jesus can you UNidentify them now?

Also--you can't identify the accuser in the CIVIL case without exposing her before the CRIMINAL case. The other guys who left the team--we all knew their names and why when it happened. There's a reason for that. They are STUDENT ATHLETES, the names and faces associated with our university. Their dismissal from the team isn't an anonymous thing.

So unless you have Rufus and a phone booth, I fail to see what you're trying to argue here. And the one current player? He IS anonymous. John Doe. So...um...

Yeah.

Your mind processes...they baffle me. 😒

 

[Volmorning]

Of course they are, but the female involved *usually* gets a ton of slack as well. I'm not saying rape accusations come out of thin air all the time, but it has happened. The female accuser probably still got all the slack in the world and a slap on the wrist.

Just feel like someone has to stand up for the ones being accused in situations now, whether they committed the crime or not. Females and seemingly liberals want so much to come out of a rape accusation and crime but never want to look inward. I just want a fair trial and fair name sharing in the media.

Well, if by slack you mean being ridiculed, saying you asked for it, death treats, and more. I see your point. Look, I can understand your train of thought, I really can. It's just that I have a teenage daughter and have seen first-hand what even kids are capable of, especially on the Internet. Believe me, it's not pretty, and if she accused a star athlete of rape? I can't even imagine.

 

[CAVPUT]

So are you or are you not against equal anonymity for both sides? To paraphrase JFK, "The rights of every person are diminished when the rights of one person are threatened."

A-freakiing-MEN!!!

 

[orangeluvr]

The homosexual rape culture at PSU was a helluva a lot worse than the alleged culture at UT. :yes:

 

[mscelinaVol]

Ah...so now it comes down to percentages? What's an acceptable number of false allegations and lives ruined in your book? One, ten, fifty? But let's not get off topic here. This isn't about percentages. This is about a fundamental principle that an individual is innocent until proven guilty. My complaint is that the accused gets named, shamed and ruined while the accuser gets the protection of anonymity. Either both are named or both are protected until guilt/innocence is determined. Why is that such a problem? Again, I don't want a single rapist to go unpunished. I also don't want a single innocent man to be ruined by a false allegation. You seem to be fine with any damage done to a man as long as the woman is protected at all costs. I cannot and will not accept that line of thought. Both parties are human beings with families, lives, feelings and futures. Neither one is more or less important than the other.

You tell me. How many FALSE rape claims make it acceptable to destroy the protection of all the real rape victims? This is YOUR assertion--that false accusations are the reason for the...views you espouse. Okay fine. How many are there? Must be a huge problem right? National epidemic? All those lying girls, making up rape stories to punish the men they've been with? Surely there are thousands of cases then? Since this is SO urgent?

Still waiting.

 

[zqvol]

Over 135 posts and not one poster grasps what this is really about. One day you will all figure it out, or better yet go read title IX.

If you want to understand what is going on read the pleadings:

Lawsuit

 

[CAVPUT]

How could they all possibly remain anonymous? AJ Johnson and Michael Williams are about to go to TRIAL. Their names have been out for what--a year and a half BEFORE today? How in the name of bleeding Jesus can you UNidentify them now?

Also--you can't identify the accuser in the CIVIL case without exposing her before the CRIMINAL case. The other guys who left the team--we all knew their names and why when it happened. There's a reason for that. They are STUDENT ATHLETES, the names and faces associated with our university. Their dismissal from the team isn't an anonymous thing.

So unless you have Rufus and a phone booth, I fail to see what you're trying to argue here. And the one current player? He IS anonymous. John Doe. So...um...

Yeah.

Your mind processes...they baffle me. 😒

That's the point exactly. These players have already been identified and suffered losses before they've had their day in court. As you said. you can't unidentify them. This accusation has been hovering over them for some time now. Their lives have been put on hold and essentially ruined. Maybe they're guilty and pay a higher price. Maybe they're innocent, but how do you undo the damage if they did nothing wrong? The PC police would never tolerate allowing them to remain anonymous and continuing with their lives until proven guilty. No...they must be considered guilty until they can prove they did nothing wrong. How is this justice?

 

[ptcarter]

opcorn:
This thread is gonna be around for a LONG time. Both sides of the argument have valid concerns. Taking sides is an emotional thing for most everyone.

We don't want our star players off the team, so we hope it isn't true.
We don't want someone to take advantage of a woman in that way.
Injustice can exist in every scenario mentioned for both the alleged raper and alleged rapee.
It could be a witch hunt. It might be real.

One thing for certain. No body on this message board will ever know what really happened.

It's a mess and I predict this thread has enough legs to take us to at least next kickoff.
opcorn: Carry on.

 

[Wolfeman_Vol]

How could they all possibly remain anonymous? AJ Johnson and Michael Williams are about to go to TRIAL. Their names have been out for what--a year and a half BEFORE today? How in the name of bleeding Jesus can you UNidentify them now?

Also--you can't identify the accuser in the CIVIL case without exposing her before the CRIMINAL case. The other guys who left the team--we all knew their names and why when it happened. There's a reason for that. They are STUDENT ATHLETES, the names and faces associated with our university. Their dismissal from the team isn't an anonymous thing.

So unless you have Rufus and a phone booth, I fail to see what you're trying to argue here. And the one current player? He IS anonymous. John Doe. So...um...

Yeah.

Your mind processes...they baffle me. 😒

That's why he's saying in these cases the accused and the plaintiff should both be anonymous until proven innocent or guilty. One or the other should not be exposed because it ruins lives, careers, and relationships on both sides. If the accused is found guilty, they deserve what they get, but if they are innocent they should've been protected from losing everything before the ridiculously long process proved them to be so.

 

[CAVPUT]

You tell me. How many FALSE rape claims make it acceptable to destroy the protection of all the real rape victims? This is YOUR assertion--that false accusations are the reason for the...views you espouse. Okay fine. How many are there? Must be a huge problem right? National epidemic? All those lying girls, making up rape stories to punish the men they've been with? Surely there are thousands of cases then? Since this is SO urgent?

Still waiting.

My point is and will remain that I don't consider it a matter of percentages. EVERY life is valuable. EVERY individual deserves the RIGHT to be considered innocent until proven guilty. I see no reason why one party can remain anonymous and make accusations while the other is held up in public as an accused rapist to suffer the consequences, again, BEFORE he has his day in court. Either both are named or both are anonymous until their day in court. And until that day in court, the men should be allowed to continue living their lives and yes, playing football, working construction, delivering trash, etc. You don't punish until the crime is proven. That's wrong and always will be.

 

[mscelinaVol]

Over 135 posts and not one poster grasps what this is really about. One day you will all figure it out, or better yet go read title IX.

Title IX is being invoked because of the "culture of rape" cited in the lawsuit leading to a gender inequality specifically as it pertains to the adjudication system, accusers, and athletes. (And it's horse****e IMO)

This argument isn't so much about the case. This argument for me is, unfortunately, demonstrating the very culture I think is so bogus in the suit. It's a blame the victim, excuse the players because "boys will be boys" and protect them from potential disaster.

And in the end, the solution for our students is so damn easy. If you are on an athletic scholarship--hell, just in college period-- THINK WITH YOUR BRAIN AND NOT YOUR GENITALS. Men and women. Don't put yourself in a position to either DO something stupid or to be accused of it.

Just have some damn sense.

 

[I40flyer]

UT's part isn't the rape, of course no one would think that any football player was told to go rape a female student-that is stupid as it gets. I believe the suit is based on the way the "system" at UT is stacked-and does not reflect the real world. Imagine your wife or daughter were raped, would you want the same type of "investigation" and hearing to determine the outcome of the rapist??? I think not. As I understand it, CBJ has let a few players go, did he do so just because someone wrote something about them over a urinal? I think not, I'm sure he did some due diligence, at least I hope he did. If the system is "Stacked" against the victim, in fact, works to "Get off" a rapist, then, by all means it needs to be fixed. If anyone in a paid position, exerted any influence to help cover-up a rape or sexual assault, they should not only be fired, right now, but they should face criminal charges, and be named in the civil suit, without UT covering their expenses.

 

[Weezer]

How could they all possibly remain anonymous? AJ Johnson and Michael Williams are about to go to TRIAL. Their names have been out for what--a year and a half BEFORE today? How in the name of bleeding Jesus can you UNidentify them now?

Also--you can't identify the accuser in the CIVIL case without exposing her before the CRIMINAL case. The other guys who left the team--we all knew their names and why when it happened. There's a reason for that. They are STUDENT ATHLETES, the names and faces associated with our university. Their dismissal from the team isn't an anonymous thing.

So unless you have Rufus and a phone booth, I fail to see what you're trying to argue here. And the one current player? He IS anonymous. John Doe. So...um...

Yeah.

Your mind processes...they baffle me. 😒

So to you, it's only about unringing the bell, not fixing the process? Do you think it fair the accused are expected to face the court of public opinion without ever being found guilty?

As for criminal case vs. civil case, I blame that on the attorney. Poor time to file, imo, before a verdict in criminal proceedings is issued. Criminal proceedings first, then civil proceedings, imo. One doesn't actually effect the other as you have different burdens of proof. But if you're going to file a civil suit seeking monetary damages, I still don't see why anonymity should be protected. It's not like they are suing those they have accused of raping them. They're now chasing after money from people who have it. Do they deserve to be recompensed? Maybe, not my call to make. But it's no longer about sexual assault.

 

[EZE]

This will be the next wave of lawsuits filed by plaintiffs attorneys around the country. Watch as school after school is hit with these. And then you might want to ask: Is it reall possible that every school in the country is blatantly fostering an unsafe sexual environment on campus?

 

[montanatenn]

It is a trend throughout the country. No one is being accused of anything. The University is being accused of not handling past cases correctly. If it is proven that they haven't acted correctly, they will be given guidance for the future. Recently, I can't recall where any administrator has tried to cover anything up. The administrators named are ultimately responsible for everyone who works for them and all of the players. I don't they would put themselves at risk by allowing things like this to happen. Anyway they are in a tough position. It would be like having 100 kids in your' own home.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Over 135 posts and not one poster grasps what this is really about. One day you will all figure it out, or better yet go read title IX.

If you want to understand what is going on read the pleadings:

Lawsuit

Can u give us the cliff notes version please?

 

[mscelinaVol]

That's why he's saying in these cases the accused and the plaintiff should both be anonymous until proven innocent or guilty. One or the other should not be exposed because it ruins lives, careers, and relationships on both sides. If the accused is found guilty, they deserve what they get, but if they are innocent they should've been protected from losing everything before the ridiculously long process proved them to be so.

How? How can AJ Johnson be anonymous in this suit? Just explain that one thing to me. How do you intend to erase a year of coverage since he was charged and suddenly MAKE him anonymous?

The current student IS anonymous. I am totallt cool with that. But the other? Cannot be undone.

 

[HoptownVol]

Makes you wonder who is orchestrating this whole thing.