Sweeping Sexual Assault Suit Filed Against UT

[Weezer]

At this point, guilt or innocence isn't the point. The point is that you are advocating a course of action that if ANY of these accusations are true would subject the victim to continued and unalleviated--and escalating--trauma. Do I think they're true? Nope. Probably not. But it doesn't matter what I think.

What I find ridiculous about all this is the inability to understand that if there were sexual crimes committed the victims should be penalized for having the courage to come forward.

Just another example of the "blame the victim" culture that has permeated the American justice system regarding sex crimes since the day it was founded.

Guilt or innocence should always be the point. The guilty should be punished, the innocent should not. And who's blaming the victim? Most of us are saying don't rush to judgement because sometimes it turns out the victim is the one being accused, not the one doing the accusing.

 

[EZE]

True but the policy is based upon a potential violation of the athlete's code of conduct. Suspended while the investigation. Is ongoing, then either dismissed or reinstated depending upon the outcome. It's not MY policy, but the school's.

This is not that kind of proceeding, either. The plaintiffs have already (1) gone through that and are unhappy with the findings or (2) decided to skip them altogether. So, the school's policy doesn't apply here.

 

[mscelinaVol]

Your argument is completely one-sided. You only see this from the female perspective. Do you even begin to understand the emotional damage a man can suffer from being falsely accused of rape? It's far easier to prove guilt or innocence in a murder trial than it is in a rape trial. Men who have been accused of rape, they are forever branded. It doesn't matter what a court of law rules, there will always be people who doubt their innocence. There will always be whispers about how they got away with it. Men have taken their own lives over things like this. Is that justice? Who was served?


Anonymity is an important cornerstone of sexual assault law. I do not oppose it in sexual assault cases, but I think both parties deserve protection. The public doesn't need to know John Doe was accused of rape. If he's convicted of rape, then fine, publish his name, but until an actual conviction occurs, let him be protected by anonymity as well while the case is being investigated. Why ruin someone's life before you know the facts? Makes no sense to me.


And, to once more be clear, the current case is not a sexual assault case. It is a civil case filed against the University of TN. I don't see why anonymity in such a case should be important. If the criminal cases of sexual assault are still on-going, they should have delayed the timing of the lawsuit until after verdicts were rendered.

BECAUSE IDIOTS WHO FIND OUT THESE WOMEN'S NAMES WILL THREATEN AND TORTURE THEM. You get that right? Hell--there are UT "fans" who've sent death threats to players on our own team for a bad play!

Jesus Christ. It's not that hard to understand unless you are UNWILLING to attempt to do so.

ETA: by the way, I strongly object to the idea that there's a male versus female point of view on this issue and that my argument is "one-sided" and solely the "female" perspective. All of us, regardless of gender, should be equally invested in protecting the victims of sexual assault from further trauma--whether it applies to this case or not. Victims of sex crimes are male and female, young and old, gay and straight. Let's not turn this into yet another tired old rehash of outdated gender biases.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

I wish more coaches like Butch would take the Jimbo Fisher approach with these "rape" cases. Unless there is clear and convincing evidence right away the player doesn't need to be suspended. AJ Johnson got screwed whether he did it or not. If he did do it he'll get his due justice anyways, so why not let him play football and continue his life.

 

[EZE]

Guilt or innocence should always be the point. The guilty should be punished, the innocent should not. And who's blaming the victim? Most of us are saying don't rush to judgement because sometimes it turns out the victim is the one being accused, not the one doing the accusing.

Please people, realize that there will be no "guilt" or "innocence" in this CIVIL LAWSUIT even if it goes to a jury. There will only be findings of liability or no liability for MONEY DAMAGES. THIS IS NOT A CRIMINAL MATTER.

 

[Weezer]

Please, just please STFU. The scenario you describe happens maybe 1% of the time. The fact that there is something called "revenge porn" should tell you all you need to know. You're white penis is overriding your brain.

Congratulations on the most idiotic post I've read of the day. And I've read some doozies.

 

[EZE]

BECAUSE IDIOTS WHO FIND OUT THESE WOMEN'S NAMES WILL THREATEN AND TORTURE THEM. You get that right? Hell--there are UT "fans" who've sent death threats to players on our own team for a bad play!

Jesus Christ. It's not that hard to understand unless you are UNWILLING to attempt to do so.

When they step into a civil courtroom seeking money damages from people not even involved in the alleged act (i.e., Butch, etc.), they should not be granted immunity IMO.

A criminal complaint against the accused is another matter.

 

[volman85]

The University is stuck between a rock and a hard place here. Anytime someone makes an accusation against a player, it has to be researched and fully vetted before action is taken. The University can't just kick someone off a team any time an accusation is made. Do you know how many people are either looking to cash in, looking to settle a score, or otherwise gain from making accusations like this? Not saying one way or the other this is what happened, but a player's rights have to be protected, too.

What if you ruin a young man's life by revoking his scholarship and potentially destroying an NFL career, over an accusation that was made that turned out to be false?

Here's one example of that even though it did not happen on a college campus.Ex-USC Trojans recruit exonerated on rape conviction

 

[Weezer]

BECAUSE IDIOTS WHO FIND OUT THESE WOMEN'S NAMES WILL THREATEN AND TORTURE THEM. You get that right? Hell--there are UT "fans" who've sent death threats to players on our own team for a bad play!

Jesus Christ. It's not that hard to understand unless you are UNWILLING to attempt to do so.

Honestly, you seem to be the one unwilling to understand. I've argued FOR anonymity in the criminal cases, only I've argued protecting both sides. Is that so hard for you to comprehend? Do you not get that sometimes people are innocent of crimes they are accused of committing?


Read through my posts in this thread. I've been consistent with my stance. I think fanboys should be dealt with. It's not okay to harass anyone. Pretty simple, imo.

But once again, this is not a CRIMINAL case, this is a CIVIL case. Different sets of rules apply.

 

[CAVPUT]

Far better to protect the few false claimants than to destroy a single true victim.

I disagree completely. You, again, ignore the impact on those falsely accused. Why are their lives, families, and reputations any less important than those of the true victims? Point in fact....the falsely accused are victims, too. Why is their plight so easily dismissed?

 

[Volmorning]

Congratulations on the most idiotic post I've read of the day. And I've read some doozies.

Really?? You have the nerve to call me idiotic, when you are the one advocating that rape victims be paraded in front of the court of public opinion so guys like you can sit there and talk about what a "whore" they are so your favorite athlete can continue to play sports.

I would bet you any amount of money that if you were bent over by a couple of dudes, you wouldn't want your name out there, now would ya'?

 

[CAVPUT]

It's not that hard to understand unless you are UNWILLING to attempt to do so.

If the shoe fits.....

 

[Weezer]

Please people, realize that there will be no "guilt" or "innocence" in this CIVIL LAWSUIT even if it goes to a jury. There will only be findings of liability or no liability for MONEY DAMAGES. THIS IS NOT A CRIMINAL MATTER.

Oh, I agree as it pertains to this case, my post was more about criminal proceedings. The whole point of a criminal trial is guilt or innocence, so it should matter.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

Really?? You have the nerve to call me idiotic, when you are the one advocating that rape victims be paraded in front of the court of public opinion so guys like you can sit there and talk about what a "whore" they are so your favorite athlete can continue to play sports.

I would bet you any amount of money that if you were bent over by a couple of dudes, you wouldn't want your name out there, now would ya'?

Why is the male's name published then? He's only accused. It's innocent until proven guilty but everyone knows that's not the way it goes. So yes, either publish both names, or none at all until a trial is held.

 

[munsterlander]

I believe an accuser of this sort of crime should be anonymous unless claims are found to be false. Then the accuser should be fair game and subject to a countersuit for defamation of character in cases of civil suits.

Was thinking along same lines.

If rape and cover-up, people should go to prison or worse.

If seeking a payday, would sue their butts off and seek criminal penalty if possible. (Having no legal background, no clue what is possible.) And in this case, lawyer would be a total POS.

I clearly don't know what all happened, but at least some of this reads like something on the Maury Povich show. Girl having sex with boyfriend while another guy watches? And THEN things go south? Girl texting guy she wants to have sex, then it's rape? WTH?

I have no problem with severe consequences for actual rapists. I do have a problem with ruining people's lives with unproven allegations.

And as others have said - credibility is strained to say the least when the actual law enforcement agency is not brought in.

What a mess.

Looking forward to article entitled "Sweeping Journalistic Incompetence at Tennessean" if/when this case is lost.

 

[Weezer]

Really?? You have the nerve to call me idiotic, when you are the one advocating that rape victims be paraded in front of the court of public opinion so guys like you can sit there and talk about what a "whore" they are so your favorite athlete can continue to play sports.

I would bet you any amount of money that if you were bent over by a couple of dudes, you wouldn't want your name out there, now would ya'?

I called your post idiotic, not you. When did I advocate parading rape victims before the court of public opinion? I'm pretty sure I haven't done that. What I have said is this case, you know, the one this whole thread is about, is not a criminal case. It is a civil case. Since when do parties seeking damages enjoy the right of anonymity? Two totally different scenarios, imo.

 

[mscelinaVol]

I disagree completely. You, again, ignore the impact on those falsely accused. Why are their lives, families, and reputations any less important than those of the true victims? Point in fact....the falsely accused are victims, too. Why is their plight so easily dismissed?

All right. Astound me. Show me a viable, documented percentage of false accusations of rape versus convictions that will convince me that there's a significant enough number of cases to overthrow the protection of the victims in the REAL cases.

Because until you can do that? Your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. You can't take away the protection afforded to thousands because of the lies of the two.

I'll wait. Happy googling.

 

[orangeluvr]

Given the recent settlements Hart and Cheek have paid out I'd say your spot on with the settlement part of things.

Some folks want money w/o working for it. this is tant amount to suing the taxpayers of Tennessee. :realmad:

 

[ptcarter]

This.

I would bet a large sum of money this goes absolutely nowhere.

I would bet a large sum of money goes somewhere.

 

[Weezer]

Really?? You have the nerve to call me idiotic, when you are the one advocating that rape victims be paraded in front of the court of public opinion so guys like you can sit there and talk about what a "whore" they are so your favorite athlete can continue to play sports.

I would bet you any amount of money that if you were bent over by a couple of dudes, you wouldn't want your name out there, now would ya'?

Also, I was taught to be far more respectful of women than to brandish a word like whore around. I've never called a woman accusing someone of sexual assault a whore, nor will I ever do that. That's just absurd. And I have never put athletes above anyone else. If they committed the crime, they deserve the time. But if they didn't commit the crime, it seems like you're okay if their lives get ruined in the process. No big deal, right?

 

[VolNExile]

F these whores.

And so there you are.

You don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. But hey, they sue the university, and so they are whores.

Frankly, I think Butch Jones has zero tolerance for sexual assault. The fact that he bounced a bunch of guys immediately, AND that he didn't do so with a couple others, tells me that he weighs the limited evidence that he has at the time and tries to do what's right.

Is there sexual violence at UT (and at other colleges across the nation?) Yes. Is there a higher incidence among college athletes who have been allowed to get away with crap from the time they were ten years old, because they have an arm, or they're fast, or they're tall, or whatever (and other students who got away with crap because Daddy had money or social status or connections?) Yes.

I don't think we do that here, or not knowingly at least. But then, we all want to believe that we do things more ethically than others.

 

[Volmorning]

Why is the male's name published then? He's only accused. It's innocent until proven guilty but everyone knows that's not the way it goes. So yes, either publish both names, or none at all until a trial is held.

First, thank you for a civil post. Yes, I agree with you. I believe that in ANY type of he-said, she-said situation both names should be kept out of the public arena. However, to argue that a supposed victim should be paraded around the court of public opinion just because the accused is... Well, that's a case of 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Especially when that wrong includes a person who will be downright crucified for even accusing the other party. This board we are on now should show you that the majority of people are going to give the accused all the slack they need.

 

[wmcovol]

I can't see how UT can settle this. If they do, they open a complete Pandora's box for every fake case one can imagine.

OTOH, not all of these little darlings are completely innocent. Some were out looking for some action and got it. There are videos, cell phone records, etc which will be very embarrassing and will show some of it was mutual until someone had regrets.

I've been in civil suits and the response these women will get from UT attorneys will scare the living hell out of them.

 

[CAVPUT]

He used alleged because that is exactly the correct term. Nothing has been proven,only allegations from these women. Let's be clear, they have a case then bring criminal charges. Saying they were victims doesn't make it so. Just ask Rolling Stone and the University of Va. that sometimes is not the case. This case is a non starter but will be settled because it's cheaper. Your views are decidedly one sided. These woman chose to sign on to the lawsuit let them come forward, not hide behind the lawsuit.

Exactly. The presumption is that these men are guilty until proven innocent. Instead of the term "accusers" we are led to the descriptor of "victims". That has yet to be proven. Until it is PROVEN, these players are just as much a victim.

 

[Volmorning]

Also, I was taught to be far more respectful of women than to brandish a word like whore around. I've never called a woman accusing someone of sexual assault a whore, nor will I ever do that. That's just absurd. And I have never put athletes above anyone else. If they committed the crime, they deserve the time. But if they didn't commit the crime, it seems like you're okay if their lives get ruined in the process. No big deal, right?

Maybe not you, but a large percentage will, and you know it's true.