Sweeping Sexual Assault Suit Filed Against UT

[Jax_Vol]

What did good ol Finebaum say?

Finebaum should be the new spokesman for Trojan

 

[BowlBrother85]

Only to football guys. Sexual assault has been a serious problem on college campuses for many years--and is mostly definitely a problem with athletes--and has for many years been swept under the rug as universities and athletic departments, including some prestigious ones, use various means to keep cases quiet or subtly dissuade victims from pursuing charges. Look at the J. Winston case at FSU--the police basically failed to pursue the case.

I was referring specifically to Anita W.'s prior reports - nothing else.

 

[mscelinaVol]

Person goes to a bar, picks up a woman, goes home with her and they have consensual sex. Women accuses man of rape, presses charges or files a civil suit. Man's name is drug through the mud. He loses his job, his friends, families and community thinks he is a rapist. His life gets wrecked. Shouldn't there be recourse and compensation for him when he is found not guilty?

Absolutely. If the accuser lied, she should be charged/convicted of perjury, and held liable for civil damages.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Absolutely. If the accuser lied, she should be charged/convicted of perjury, and held liable for civil damages.

... but that never happens. See the accuser in the Duke lacrosse case.

 

[Weezer]

The fact that you're using air quotes around alleged simply demonstrates to me how essential it is these women remain unidentified. Anytime ANYONE claims sexual abuse, they should be treated carefully.

Why?

Because RAPE IS A CRIME. A PSYCHOLOGICAL DEVASTATOR. A SOCIAL STIGMA. And because only too many people quite obviously are only too happy to ASSUME these women are lying because it would be inconvenient for them to be telling THE TRUTH.

Thank you for proving my point so perfectly. I hope no woman in your life is ever in this situation, so she would have to endure what you are so willing to condemn women to do.

Have a nice day.

Yes, rape is a devastating crime. I agree with you on that 100%. Being falsely accused of rape is also a devastating crime that can emotionally cripple a man just as much as rape can emotionally cripple a woman. And yes there are people willing to ASSUME the women are lying, but there are also people willing to ASSUME they are telling the truth. And it's not as simple as saying if you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they are lying, then they should be fair game. Proving someone is lying is not easy. Most rape cases that don't make it to trial are dismissed because of lack of evidence to support the accuser's charges. That doesn't mean she's lying, it only means they can't prove she's not. There is no beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Godfatha]

Absolutely. If the accuser lied, she should be charged/convicted of perjury, and held liable for civil damages.

And I agree that there is a need for anonymity of the accuser. I don't want there to ever be a scenario where a victim of a crime is afraid to come forward. I just think it needs to work both ways.

 

[mscelinaVol]

... but that never happens. See the accuser in the Duke lacrosse case.

Which is why I said "should". Can't punish all potential victims for the travesty of justice at Duke.

 

[CAVPUT]

The fact that you're using air quotes around alleged simply demonstrates to me how essential it is these women remain unidentified. Anytime ANYONE claims sexual abuse, they should be treated carefully.

Why?

Because RAPE IS A CRIME. A PSYCHOLOGICAL DEVASTATOR. A SOCIAL STIGMA. And because only too many people quite obviously are only too happy to ASSUME these women are lying because it would be inconvenient for them to be telling THE TRUTH.

Thank you for proving my point so perfectly. I hope no woman in your life is ever in this situation, so she would have to endure what you are so willing to condemn women to do.

Have a nice day.

Again, BS. I'm assuming nothing. You seem perfectly content to dismiss the impact these allegations have on these young men and their families. You also seem to ignore the FACT that false allegations are made. If these women want to bring charges, that's perfectly fine and their right. You state

RAPE IS A CRIME. A PSYCHOLOGICAL DEVASTATOR. A SOCIAL STIGMA. And because only too many people quite obviously are only too happy to ASSUME these women are lying because it would be inconvenient for them to be telling THE TRUTH.

Not one word in your reply considers the possibility that the accused are INNOCENT. Your stance is completely one sided. Women want equality so embrace it. If one side is identified, the other should be as well. You can't and shouldn't have it both ways.

 

[ericpVOL4LIFE]

The press only reports when someone is charged with a crime or lawsuit. They NEVER report when someone is found innocent.

This . The press should not be allowed to print accusations . They should only be able to publicize resulting facts as it can potentially harm the innocent.

 

[QuickSmurf]

So you don't believe in equality? You believe women should have more rights then men.


I get what you're saying, I honestly do, but the world we live in now is not the world of the past. Like I said previously, if this were an actual criminal case, I would understand protection through anonymity, but I believe the accused should be protected by that same anonymity until guilt or innocence is established. Sometimes it turns out the accused IS the victim. But this isn't a criminal case. This is a civil case seeking monetary recompense based on perceived actions of the University of TN. It's not a rape trial.

I bet there have been far more women raped and didn't come forward than there are men who have been falsly accused. It's a problem in our culture and to pretend like its not is absurd.

 

[mscelinaVol]

Yes, rape is a devastating crime. I agree with you on that 100%. Being falsely accused of rape is also a devastating crime that can emotionally cripple a man just as much as rape can emotionally cripple a woman. And yes there are people willing to ASSUME the women are lying, but there are also people willing to ASSUME they are telling the truth. And it's not as simple as saying if you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they are lying, then they should be fair game. Proving someone is lying is not easy. Most rape cases that don't make it to trial are dismissed because of lack of evidence to support the accuser's charges. That doesn't mean she's lying, it only means they can't prove she's not. There is no beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But you cannot operate from the assumption the two situations are the same. The paramount concern in these cases must be the welfare and justice for a VICTIM of a predatory sexual assault. Has to be. Otherwise the entire system of justice is undermined from the get go. Far better to protect the few false claimants than to destroy a single true victim.

 

[Fijivol72]

The fact that you're using air quotes around alleged simply demonstrates to me how essential it is these women remain unidentified. Anytime ANYONE claims sexual abuse, they should be treated carefully.

Why?

Because RAPE IS A CRIME. A PSYCHOLOGICAL DEVASTATOR. A SOCIAL STIGMA. And because only too many people quite obviously are only too happy to ASSUME these women are lying because it would be inconvenient for them to be telling THE TRUTH.

Thank you for proving my point so perfectly. I hope no woman in your life is ever in this situation, so she would have to endure what you are so willing to condemn women to do.

Have a nice day.

He used alleged because that is exactly the correct term. Nothing has been proven,only allegations from these women. Let's be clear, they have a case then bring criminal charges. Saying they were victims doesn't make it so. Just ask Rolling Stone and the University of Va. that sometimes is not the case. This case is a non starter but will be settled because it's cheaper. Your views are decidedly one sided. These woman chose to sign on to the lawsuit let them come forward, not hide behind the lawsuit.

 

[volfanhill]

This . The press should not be allowed to print accusations . They should only be able to publicize resulting facts as it can potentially harm the innocent.

What? That's the most ridiculous statement ever made:

 

[utvolpj]

This . The press should not be allowed to print accusations . They should only be able to publicize resulting facts as it can potentially harm the innocent.

It's a fact that they were accused

 

[Weezer]

I bet there have been far more women raped and didn't come forward than there are men who have been falsly accused. It's a problem in our culture and to pretend like its not is absurd.

Who said rape doesn't occur? Absolutely it does, and it should be punished. Hell, I think rape should be a capital crime punishable by death. Rapists can murder the soul of a person as surely as any killer can take a life. But to act like false accusations don't occur, that's absurd. A man should not have to suffer for the rest of his life off of baseless allegations. That doesn't bring justice to the women where rapists got away with the crime. Anonymity should be protected on both sides until guilt or innocence is established through court of law.

 

[flatiron]

It really would mean something to me if it was literally ANY other source breaking this than Anita. She has an agenda that's very clear. I have read enough of her material to know that she has omitted details and told half truths. She wrote her narrative here long ago.

Not taking up for the reporter, but she's breaking the story about the suit because she's been following this more closely than any other reporter. The plaintiffs probably gave her a heads up that it was being filed (if they didn't send her a copy of the suit directly). It's pretty standard procedure.

 

[VolNExile]

He used alleged because that is exactly the correct term. Nothing has been proven,only allegations from these women. Let's be clear, they have a case then bring criminal charges. Saying they were victims don't make it so. Just ask Rolling Stone and the University of Va. that sometimes is not the case. This case is a non startery but will be settled because it's cheaper. Your views are decidedly one sided. These woman chose to sign on to the lawsuit let them come forward, not hide behind the lawsuit.

--> Why is it mandatory that the alleged victims

--> Why is it mandatory that the "alleged" victims

There is a hell of a lot of difference in those two phrases, and I think that is what mscelinaVol was saying when she spoke of air quotes.

The word alleged all on its own says that it isn't proven one way or another. You don't need to add quotes to it.

"Alleged", on the other hand, carries a connotation of false victimhood.

And so the off-season officially begins...

 

[mscelinaVol]

Again, BS. I'm assuming nothing. You seem perfectly content to dismiss the impact these allegations have on these young men and their families. You also seem to ignore the FACT that false allegations are made. If these women want to bring charges, that's perfectly fine and their right. You state



Not one word in your reply considers the possibility that the accused are INNOCENT. Your stance is completely one sided. Women want equality so embrace it. If one side is identified, the other should be as well. You can't and shouldn't have it both ways.

At this point, guilt or innocence isn't the point. The point is that you are advocating a course of action that if ANY of these accusations are true would subject the victim to continued and unalleviated--and escalating--trauma. Do I think they're true? Nope. Probably not. But it doesn't matter what I think.

What I find ridiculous about all this is the inability to understand that if there were sexual crimes committed the victims should be penalized for having the courage to come forward.

Just another example of the "blame the victim" culture that has permeated the American justice system regarding sex crimes since the day it was founded.

 

[samanderson]

I swear to god! It seems as if there is a designated ATM machine set up for those suffering from post copulatory remorse to run to! And I am an avowed liberal saying this!

 

[EZE]

Horse crap. What happens when a player is accused? CBJ promptly suspends him. If he's cleared he's reinstated. It's established procedure, so the "knee jerk reaction?"

Not mine.

Criminal matters are much different than civil matters IMO.

 

[Weezer]

But you cannot operate from the assumption the two situations are the same. The paramount concern in these cases must be the welfare and justice for a VICTIM of a predatory sexual assault. Has to be. Otherwise the entire system of justice is undermined from the get go. Far better to protect the few false claimants than to destroy a single true victim.

Your argument is completely one-sided. You only see this from the female perspective. Do you even begin to understand the emotional damage a man can suffer from being falsely accused of rape? It's far easier to prove guilt or innocence in a murder trial than it is in a rape trial. Men who have been accused of rape, they are forever branded. It doesn't matter what a court of law rules, there will always be people who doubt their innocence. There will always be whispers about how they got away with it. Men have taken their own lives over things like this. Is that justice? Who was served?


Anonymity is an important cornerstone of sexual assault law. I do not oppose it in sexual assault cases, but I think both parties deserve protection. The public doesn't need to know John Doe was accused of rape. If he's convicted of rape, then fine, publish his name, but until an actual conviction occurs, let him be protected by anonymity as well while the case is being investigated. Why ruin someone's life before you know the facts? Makes no sense to me.


And, to once more be clear, the current case is not a sexual assault case. It is a civil case filed against the University of TN. I don't see why anonymity in such a case should be important. If the criminal cases of sexual assault are still on-going, they should have delayed the timing of the lawsuit until after verdicts were rendered.

 

[mscelinaVol]

Criminal matters are much different than civil matters IMO.

True but the policy is based upon a potential violation of the athlete's code of conduct. Suspended while the investigation. Is ongoing, then either dismissed or reinstated depending upon the outcome. It's not MY policy, but the school's.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

AJ Johnson had an NFL future. He was at least going to make a lot of money. Now where's he at? What more do they want?? Innocent until proven guilty, they can't smear their names anymore than they have.

 

[EZE]

I believe an accuser of this sort of crime should be anonymous unless claims are found to be false. Then the accuser should be fair game and subject to a countersuit for defamation of character in cases of civil suits.

This is not a criminal charge. That is the thing. Here, plaintiffs are accusing defendants of a tort and seeking money damages.

My problem is this. Why were criminal complaints never pursued?

 

[Volmorning]

Yes, rape is a devastating crime. I agree with you on that 100%. Being falsely accused of rape is also a devastating crime that can emotionally cripple a man just as much as rape can emotionally cripple a woman. And yes there are people willing to ASSUME the women are lying, but there are also people willing to ASSUME they are telling the truth. And it's not as simple as saying if you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they are lying, then they should be fair game. Proving someone is lying is not easy. Most rape cases that don't make it to trial are dismissed because of lack of evidence to support the accuser's charges. That doesn't mean she's lying, it only means they can't prove she's not. There is no beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Please, just please STFU. The scenario you describe happens maybe 1% of the time. The fact that there is something called "revenge porn" should tell you all you need to know. Your white penis is overriding your brain.