Stop judging coaches by tourney success

VolsSportsFan

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Yea, yea, yea...if you want to live in a fantasy world. It’s all about economics. Winning is part of that equation.

I guess you are too young to know about Wade Houston, Buzz Peterson, Cuonzo Martin, and Donnie Tyndall.

Link below of attendance year by year. UT fell outside the top 10 in 2014 and fell to 20th after being top 5 under Pearl. It took Barnes a couple of years to get back to top 5. Down 5,000 fans from lowest point back up to top. Over a full season, that’s real money. But, hey, Barnes doesn’t win enough, and we live in a fantasy world.

NCAA Men's Basketball Attendance
To your point, Jerry Green went to the NCAAT 4 straight years and I think according to this the highest he got was 9th and that peaked his 3rd year. His 4th year we dropped to 12th. And on paper at least he's one of the most successful coaches UT has had, and even then people weren't filling the place up.
 
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To your point, Jerry Green went to the NCAAT 4 straight years and I think according to this the highest he got was 9th and that peaked his 3rd year. His 4th year we dropped to 12th. And on paper at least he's one of the most successful coaches UT has had, and even then people weren't filling the place up.
In 2000-01 TN climbed to #4 in the AP in January and had dropped completely out of the final poll. With all that talent. The 4x 20s and 4x NCAATs would have been enough equity for a coach that wasn’t also an a*****e. The TBA had 5,000 more seats then, but Kmart also was having some enticing sales to get to.
 

bleedingTNorange

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I realize that Barnes will be here at least until the end of his contract and will most likely be defined by the bolded portions you mention. I however have no problem with people who think the program could have more and I certainly don't think Barnes is above criticism.
The point was that you asked why the grief, the reason is because most of those same folks are getting exactly what they stated they hoped they would get and now are b!tching about it.

I’ve never said Barnes is above criticism, I’m actually not sure anyone has?
 

brockytop

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Yea, yea, yea...if you want to live in a fantasy world. It’s all about economics. Winning is part of that equation.

I guess you are too young to know about Wade Houston, Buzz Peterson, Cuonzo Martin, and Donnie Tyndall.

Link below of attendance year by year. UT fell outside the top 10 in 2014 and fell to 20th after being top 5 under Pearl. It took Barnes a couple of years to get back to top 5. Down 5,000 fans from lowest point back up to top. Over a full season, that’s real money. But, hey, Barnes doesn’t win enough, and we live in a fantasy world.

NCAA Men's Basketball Attendance
Yeah, I’m too young—graduated from UT in 1984. Hey it’s good TN kills it on the financial end because the ROI isn’t there on the court when it matters most. Unfortunately, outside the EE team it never has been.
 
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Yeah, I’m too young—graduated from UT in 1984. Hey it’s good TN kills it on the financial end because the ROI isn’t there on the court when it matters most. Unfortunately, outside the EE team it never has been.
So the standard is to win one game in the 2nd weekend?

Too bad Pearl failed to leverage that EE into something meaningful instead of a dumpster fire for the program.
 

zjcvols

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Drew won 21 games his first three years at Baylor. Not 21 per year, 21 total. There’s zero chance he would’ve seen year 4 at UT with that record, regardless of the circumstances he inherited. Heck we have people here who hold it against Barnes for not making the tournament the first two years despite being the third head coach in three years at UT.
Would you like to maybe tell the story of what was going on when Scott Drew took over and why he had 21 wins in three years?
 

VolArmy74

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Rick Barnes changed jobs in that time span and took over a mess left by Donnie Tyndall, a cheater. You also fail to mention that in that same to frame Drew has been popped for cheating. I’d take Barnes everyday over a shitstain like Scott Drew
Tyndall was here for 11 months and left Admiral and Punter for Barnes. We had no NCAA repercussions from Tyndall and his cheating was no different than dozens of coaches coaching right now. He just did it at the wrong school.

The Drew is a cheater argument is hilarious. His NCAA trouble involved sending too many texts a decade ago. He took Baylor, a horrible program historically that had only been to 4 NCAA tournaments ever, from one of the worst basketball probation/NCAA scandals in NCAA history and has built them into an elite CBB power. It's the basketball equivalent of taking Vanderbilt and turning it into a consistent top 15 football program and winning a NC there but having to start after Vandy got hammered by the NCAA at Penn State levels.
 
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VolArmy74

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CRB may not be a great coach (that’s subjective... he will be in the HoF), but he has the TN basketball program in the best shape that it’s been in since Ray Mears and Stu Aberdeen were courtside in orange blazers. Pearl didn’t get his one EE and SEC championship without also wrecking the program.
Barnes will not make the HoF unless he pulls a late life NCAA title. I don't think people realize how elite the HoF NCAA coaches are. Especially ones who coach in the expanded NCAA T era.
 

golfballs

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Tyndall was here for 11 months and left Admiral and Punter for Barnes. We had no NCAA repercussions from Tyndall and his cheating was no different than dozens of coaches coaching right now. He just did it at the wrong school.

The Drew is a cheater argument is hilarious. His NCAA trouble involved sending too many texts a decade ago. He took Baylor, a horrible program historically that had only been to 4 NCAA tournaments ever, from one of the worst basketball probation/NCAA scandals in NCAA history and has built them into an elite CBB power. It's the basketball equivalent of taking Vanderbilt and turning it into a consistent top 15 football program and winning a NC there but having to start after Vandy got hammered by the NCAA at Penn State levels.
And he had to cheat to do it. He’s one of the scummiest coaches in college basketball.
 
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VolsSportsFan

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Would you like to maybe tell the story of what was going on when Scott Drew took over and why he had 21 wins in three years?
Yep, the "regardless of circumstances" is BS; Drew inherited almost death penalty level conditions. Their 3rd season they weren't even allowed to play any non-conference games.
 

zjcvols

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Yep, the "regardless of circumstances" is BS; Drew inherited almost death penalty level conditions. Their 3rd season they weren't even allowed to play any non-conference games.
They basically got the modern day death penalty that made our situation look like a day at the beach.
 

zjcvols

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Not remotely close. His cheating was sending too many texts. The NCAA decided to drop that rule soon after. He's a great coach. Arguably the best under 60 in the NCAA.
There is a never proven, but underground rumors about Drew and not only his recruiting tactics but his behavior overall as well. One being threatening a player to be deported because of the players lack of ability.
 
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cncchris33

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Barnes will not make the HoF unless he pulls a late life NCAA title. I don't think people realize how elite the HoF NCAA coaches are. Especially ones who coach in the expanded NCAA T era.
I don’t think you realize how much you’re overestimating the quality of the member coaches of the National Collegiate Basketball HOF. Not all of them are elite coaches.

If Rick Majerus, Dale Brown, Mike Montgomery, and Tom Penders are HOF coaches, Rick Barnes will stroll in with his 727 wins (and counting) amongst his other career accolades.
 

cncchris33

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There is a never proven, but underground rumors about Drew and not only his recruiting tactics but his behavior overall as well. One being threatening a player to be deported because of the players lack of ability.
Yeah, his own fellow coaching brethren named among the games worst cheaters alongside Calipari in an anonymous poll. Doubtful they are all wrong.
 

zjcvols

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I don’t think you realize how much you’re overestimating the quality of the member coaches of the National Collegiate Basketball HOF. Not all of them are elite coaches.

If Rick Majerus, Dale Brown, Mike Montgomery, and Tom Penders are HOF coaches, Rick Barnes will stroll in with his 727 wins (and counting) amongst his other career accolades.
The basketball HOF has notorious lax standards when it comes to players and coaches getting in. It’s pretty ridiculous
 

VolArmy74

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Yep, the "regardless of circumstances" is BS; Drew inherited almost death penalty level conditions. Their 3rd season they weren't even allowed to play any non-conference games.
They also lost their entire roster. And then lost something like 2-3 scholarships a year for 4 or 5 years. Him making the tournament and winning 20+ games in year 5 is considered one of the best coaching jobs of the 2000s. I remember a talking head on ESPN saying he should be unanimous coach of the year that season.
 

VolArmy74

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I don’t think you realize how much you’re overestimating the quality of the member coaches of the National Collegiate Basketball HOF. Not all of them are elite coaches.

If Rick Majerus, Dale Brown, Mike Montgomery, and Tom Penders are HOF coaches, Rick Barnes will stroll in with his 727 wins (and counting) amongst his other career accolades.
I'm talking about the Naismith Hall of Fame. Not the college basketball Hall of Fame. The college coaches there are truly elite. The collegiate version is as you say, very lax.
 

VolsSportsFan

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They also lost their entire roster. And then lost something like 2-3 scholarships a year for 4 or 5 years. Him making the tournament and winning 20+ games in year 5 is considered one of the best coaching jobs of the 2000s. I remember a talking head on ESPN saying he should be unanimous coach of the year that season.
Yep, and he took the job like 3 months before the season. As much as I know how UT fans can be, I have a hard time thinking they would chase off a coach in those circumstances....assuming any fans stuck around after a freakin' murder cover-up.
 
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Yeah, his own fellow coaching brethren named among the games worst cheaters alongside Calipari in an anonymous poll. Doubtful they are all wrong.
I honestly think some of that has to do with the kind of people Drew and Cal are. Cal can be annoying in multiple ways and Drew seems to have a holier-than-though demeanor. Sometimes in life people want to believe other people mess up and do wrong things just because they don't like those people. No doubt there's some smoke too which only adds to the fire.
 

Vol49er

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I honestly think some of that has to do with the kind of people Drew and Cal are. Cal can be annoying in multiple ways and Drew seems to have a holier-than-though demeanor. Sometimes in life people want to believe other people mess up and do wrong things just because they don't like those people. No doubt there's some smoke too which only adds to the fire.
Yeah that's definitely it
 

VolGee4

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I honestly think some of that has to do with the kind of people Drew and Cal are. Cal can be annoying in multiple ways and Drew seems to have a holier-than-though demeanor. Sometimes in life people want to believe other people mess up and do wrong things just because they don't like those people. No doubt there's some smoke too which only adds to the fire.
Drew appears to have the Hugh Freeze personality. He comes off as a holier than though person but has rubbed other coaches the wrong way with the way he recruits and talks about others. Based on what I’ve read, if he didn’t come off like that, then his fellow coaches might not care as much. There are specific instances that can be used, and I’m sure coaches know more than the public.
 

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