Stick With Pruitt

#76
#76
volfanjustin said:
West Va game was ugly, Florida game was ugly, next 3 will be really ugly. I don't get giving every coach blind loyalty just because he is the coach here, he may succeed in a big way but it's also possible he fails miserably. Also when someone gets paid that much results are expected, he should not get a pass. As bad as Butch was at least even in his worst year he didn't get blown out by Florida.
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I absolutely have to dig my research up on this topic of how long it takes a coach to become a really good coach. Until I do, you guys will have no evidence. I will later, no time right now
 
#77
#77
Ok folks, first example: Pete Carroll spent 22 years as an assistant and 5 as a head coach before he won a national title at USC.

Pruitt has spent only 10 years as an assistant and hasn't even completed 1 year as a head coach.

More to come...
 
#78
#78
Nick saban spent 26 years as an assistant and 6 years as head coach before he won a national title in his 7th year
 
#79
#79
Urban Meyer spent 15 years as an assistant and 5 years as a head coach before he won his first major conference title and national title in his 6th year as head coach. Urban is the extreme on one end as far as proving himself the quickest. Most coaches, it takes much more time as an assistant than it took Urban. He pretty much is the quickest study ever at becoming a proven really good coach.

I'm guessing a guy like Tom Osborne the extreme on the other end. Meaning, it took him a long time as an assistant and head coach before he really proved to be a good one. I'll check it out
 
#80
#80
Tom is interesting. He spent 8 years as an assistant at Nebraska, then won the big 8 conference in his 3rd and 8th year as head coach. But, didn't win a national title until his 22nd year as head coach. He showed signs of promise by winning conference in his 3rd year, but hats off to Nebraska for sticking with him for soooo long. He finally got them what everyone really wants in year 22 as head coach, plus 8 years as an assistant under his belt. I still think he is an extreme case on the other end. Won multiple conference titles in the 70's, which end up being his 3rd and 8th and 9th years as a head coach.
 
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#81
#81
I really believe that CJP should get 5-6 yrs to really see what he can do. This staff has "players"(HA) on this team that are nothing close to what he needs to succeed. UT needs some stability at the top. Hiring and firing every few years isn't going to help. The last decade or more has been very difficult, but he needs time. This is a complete overhaul. 1 or 2 good recruiting classes will help, but not fix it. This needs time. I have zero expectations for the next 2-4 years, so I'm going to sit back and watch with an open mind.

Give the man a break and allow him to do his job. It can only get better. Right?
 
#82
#82
peaygolf said:
I really believe that CJP should get 5-6 yrs to really see what he can do. This staff has "players"(HA) on this team that are nothing close to what he needs to succeed. UT needs some stability at the top. Hiring and firing every few years isn't going to help. The last decade or more has been very difficult, but he needs time. This is a complete overhaul. 1 or 2 good recruiting classes will help, but not fix it. This needs time. I have zero expectations for the next 2-4 years, so I'm going to sit back and watch with an open mind.

Give the man a break and allow him to do his job. It can only get better. Right?
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Yes. It took Urban 6 years as head coach to win anything legitimate ( im not counting winning in small conferences. We already had Butch who won in a small conference ). Plus Urban had 15 years assistant experience under his belt compared to Pruitts 10 years assistant experience.

Pruitt needs time, plenty of it. 8 years seems about right
 
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#83
#83
More to come later. Belichick Jimbo dabo and caughlin or parcells to come. Maybe Bob stoops and even Spurrier
 
#84
#84
It is ludicrous to state BLINDLY that we should gave any coach any arbitrary amount of time. This is true whether one blindly states that he should get 8-10 years or 2-4.

What if we have another Dooley on our hands? Or Butch? You can clamor that Pruitt is nowhere as incompetent as those two, but nobody knows yet. All we can do is evaluate him after he has a reasonable amount of time to right the ship. Some will say we will know after this season and some will say we won't know until at least after three seasons.

As for me, I am seeing huge deficiencies thus far (yes, in the coaches as well as the players). I think this team will be lucky to win 4 games, which should raise the first red flag. Whatever Pruitt is preaching, these players are not responding. BUT, I think we will know exactly what Pruitt is by mid-next season. If it is more of the same, then he never will get it (ala Dooley). I'm not advocating that he be fired mid-next season. I am only saying that his abilities will be apparent by then.
 
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#85
#85
EZE said:
It is ludicrous to state BLINDLY that we should gave any coach any arbitrary amount of time. This is true whether one blindly states that he should get 8-10 years or 2-4.

What if we have another Dooley on our hands? Or Butch? You can clamor that Pruitt is nowhere as incompetent as those two, but nobody knows yet. All we can do is evaluate him after he has a reasonable amount of time to right the ship. Some will say we will know after this season and some will say we won't know until at least after three seasons.

As for me, I am seeing huge deficiencies thus far (yes, in the coaches as well as the players). I think this team will be lucky to win 4 games, which should raise the first red flag. Whatever Pruitt is preaching, these players are not responding. BUT, I think we will know exactly what Pruitt is by mid-next season. If it is more of the same, then he never will get it (ala Dooley). I'm not advocating that he be fired mid-next season. I am only saying that his abilities will be apparent by then.
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The 3-5 yr thing hasn't worked...maybe it's time to try something else.
Maybe these players are not responding because they are soft and don't like the fact it's not a country club atmosphere anymore.
 
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#86
#86
Jaws said:
The UT job is such a tough rebuild right now, and the fact that Pruitt has never been a head coach before makes it extraordinarily difficult.

This was a miscalculation by Fulmer in hiring him. Someone with experience rebuilding another program would have been ideal.

Pruitt may be fine in time, but right now in his private moments, he has to be wondering what the heck he has gotten himself into and he’s thinking that this job is much tougher than he ever imagined.
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Who was that? Who is this person you speak of that has rebuilding experience? Schiano?

The powers that were did not vet anybody out. Currie dragged his feet on Mullen and had no back up option. People say "back up the brinks truck, TN is cheap." In 2008 we backed the truck up to Kiffin and got burnt. We cant deploy that strategy anymore. Yes, we can pay a coach $7M a year if we want but what $7M coach is available? People have not wanted to work for our admin since Hamilton and lil jimmy panicked and hired Dooley at the 11th hour. It's been a cluster since. It has nothing to do with TN's job, the facilities, recruiting base, or any other foolish argument people make. TN is a respected job, we have a great location to recruit, the facilities speak for themselves. Good coaches have not wanted to come here because they're not going to risk their careers working for an inept administration that doesnt give them all the supports and tools they need to be successful. Seriously, what good coach wants to work for an AD that refused his coach money to hire a good OC, only to immediately fire the first ballot HOF coach and then panick to make a bad hire 2 weeks before signing day? Are those the type of decisions that makes you confident in your boss and the people that pull the strings? Combine that with a bad roster and this is why TN has become a coaching wasteland people. TN could have had anyone they wanted in 2008, but it's not 2008 anymore. The administration has been completely exposed for its ineptitude now and coaches are rightfully weary of that.

Pruitt is inexperienced but he brought an A level staff in (Maybe sans Helton) that could have gotten good jobs elsewhere. That is a testament to the confidence these coaches have in working under Pruitt and Fulmer. That's a big deal many are overlooking. We had no other options, so Fulmer went with an inexperienced guy but one that knew what SEC football is supposed to look like and could bring in an excellent staff. And Fulmer knows all too well, a HC is only as good as his staff.
 
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#87
#87
peaygolf said:
I really believe that CJP should get 5-6 yrs to really see what he can do. This staff has "players"(HA) on this team that are nothing close to what he needs to succeed. UT needs some stability at the top. Hiring and firing every few years isn't going to help. The last decade or more has been very difficult, but he needs time. This is a complete overhaul. 1 or 2 good recruiting classes will help, but not fix it. This needs time. I have zero expectations for the next 2-4 years, so I'm going to sit back and watch with an open mind.

Give the man a break and allow him to do his job. It can only get better. Right?
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In year 4 he will be wanting an extension and raise if not by the end of year 3. If he isn't given an extension and raise recruiting tanks so the decision on whether he will be the guy or not has to come after his 3rd season or we risk being exposed to ANOTHER big buyout. Let's learn from our mistakes people.
 
#88
#88
VFLCodyGBO said:
Stopped reading after this, they offered Gundy 7 million (2.7million more than he was making). The money isn’t the issue, it’s the interest.
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Dude, you realize he turned it down because we are in this mess for the sole reason the OP stated? If you're willing to pay money you dont hire Kiffin Dooley and Butch.
 
#89
#89
hog88 said:
In year 4 he will be wanting an extension and raise if not by the end of year 3. If he isn't given an extension and raise recruiting tanks so the decision on whether he will be the guy or not has to come after his 3rd season or we risk being exposed to ANOTHER big buyout. Let's learn from our mistakes people.
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This is the way it is now, but I propose we give him an extension to the 8 year mark, no raise, huge buyout from both sides. Basically, we are saying we are gonna give you plenty of time ( the 8 years and huge buyout ) but until you prove to be a really good one, no raise.

Nothing wrong with this strategy as far as I can see.
 
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#90
#90
volsportsfan said:
This is the way it is now, but I propose we give him an extension to the 8 year mark, no raise, huge buyout from both sides. Basically, we are saying we are gonna give you plenty of time ( the 8 years and huge buyout ) but until you prove to be a really good one, no raise.

Nothing wrong with this strategy as far as I can see.
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The bold is what's wrong with your strategy. Not to mention it doesn't take a good coach 8 freeking years to turn a program around and be competing for conference championships. Look, let's be realistic ok. If they guy isn't competing for the east in season 3, he's not the guy that will bring us to the promise land. We'd be better off financially to cut bait BEFORE he had to have an extension.
 
#91
#91
hog88 said:
. If they guy isn't competing for the east in season 3, he's not the guy that will bring us to the promise land.
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I'm kinda being an a$$ here, but have you seen this roster?.......3 yrs would be a miracle. JMO
 
#93
#93
hog88 said:
Our roster is mid-SEC level, certainly better than Vandy and KY, at least on par with MO, MS State and USCjr.
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Not sure about that. Even if true......those teams are yrs away from competing for a division championship.
 
#94
#94
hog88 said:
The bold is what's wrong with your strategy. Not to mention it doesn't take a good coach 8 freeking years to turn a program around and be competing for conference championships. Look, let's be realistic ok. If they guy isn't competing for the east in season 3, he's not the guy that will bring us to the promise land. We'd be better off financially to cut bait BEFORE he had to have an extension.
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The huge buyout is basically a guarantee to recruits that the coach they are signing up to play for will remain. At the end of the contract, the man has either shown enough or hasn't and you part ways. Yes, 1 year of recruiting could suffer due to not giving another extension, but it's more important finding a good coach than suffering from 1 average recruiting class.

Anyway, so far I have provided evidence that it takes more than 3 or 4 years to become a really good coach, and all you have supplied is your opinion. Rational folks will side with the evidence.
 
#95
#95
The evidence suggests we have hired a coach who is learning on the job, and the evidence suggests he is gonna need more than 3 or 4 years to really begin to master his craft
 
#96
#96
volsportsfan said:
The evidence suggests we have hired a coach who is learning on the job, and the evidence suggests he is gonna need more than 3 or 4 years to really begin to master his craft
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He'll get 3-5 years with minimal improvement. More with dramatic improvement. Less with no improvement or regression. That's just the reality of coaching now.
 
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#97
#97
volsportsfan said:
The huge buyout is basically a guarantee to recruits that the coach they are signing up to play for will remain. At the end of the contract, the man has either shown enough or hasn't and you part ways. Yes, 1 year of recruiting could suffer due to not giving another extension, but it's more important finding a good coach than suffering from 1 average recruiting class.

Anyway, so far I have provided evidence that it takes more than 3 or 4 years to become a really good coach, and all you have supplied is your opinion. Rational folks will side with the evidence.
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You didn't show ****. Every coach you mentioned demonstrated they were good coaches early. Yes it takes elite talent to win championships and we do not have elite talent but GOOD coaches can take mediocre talent and make them better.
 
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#98
#98
Lol...we have had year after year after year of top 20 recruiting classes and we are terrible. We have got to get the head coach position figured out or we will continue to be terrible. How many good recruiting classes do we need before folks realize we need a really good coach? So, having an average recruiting class due to not giving an extension and a raise ( this is only done to try to make recruits believe the coach is gonna remain ) to me, is justified. Find a good one, or give the one you have sufficient time to prove to be a good one because the head coaching position is more important than a recruiting class

I'm sure plenty of folks would disagree with me that coaching is more important than talent. I've seen too many good coaches come into bad situations and turn programs around for me to believe otherwise.
 
#99
#99
volsportsfan said:
Lol...we have had year after year after year of top 20 recruiting classes and we are terrible. We have got to get the head coach position figured out or we will continue to be terrible. How many good recruiting classes do we need before folks realize we need a really good coach? So, having an average recruiting class due to not giving an extension and a raise ( this is only done to try to make recruits believe the coach is gonna remain ) to me, is justified. Find a good one, or give the one you have sufficient time to prove to be a good one because the head coaching position is more important than a recruiting class

I'm sure plenty of folks would disagree with me that coaching is more important than talent. I've seen too many good coaches come into bad situations and turn programs around for me to believe otherwise.
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I think we are in agreement on everything except how long it takes to determine if the guy is a "good one".
 
#100
#100
hog88 said:
You didn't show ****. Every coach you mentioned demonstrated they were good coaches early. Yes it takes elite talent to win championships and we do not have elite talent but GOOD coaches can take mediocre talent and make them better.
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So you just disregard that Pruitt only had 10 years assistant experience and 3 years head coaching experience ( according to your timeline ) to all the other guys that have much more assistant experience and many many more years of head coach experience?

Don't know what to say to you, but more examples will be given
 
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