Stats to follow

[zjcvols]

Points per possessions since first game against Missouri through Kansas: 1.01

Points per possessions after Kansas: 1.01

 

[BruinVol]

Points per possessions since first game against Missouri through Kansas: 1.01

Points per possessions after Kansas: 1.01

That’s a good stat

Now give us that same stat in games Keon or springer shoots more than 10 times

 

[zjcvols]

That’s a good stat

Now give us that same stat in games Keon or springer shoots more than 10 times

I did 14.5 shots combined between the two as my cutoff point. I excluded Alabama, Florida and Missouri without Springer (all below 1.0ppp)

Greater than 14.5- 1.06
Less than 14.5- 1.026

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

Not to burst anyone’s fun bubble, but a complex set of interconnected variables can’t be assessed by pulling out single inputs and claiming causation against an outcome. If our inside game was effective, it would draw defensive attention, and that would free up open shots for KJ and JS. In that scenario more shots by them probably equates to more wins. With an anemic inside game, the freshmen are getting doubled on drives, and overdefended on the outside. This offense is dependent on balance. Fulky being weak at the high and low spot kills the chemistry. You can bet his 15/8 SEC average of 2020 gets him a double team and open shooter most possessions. In that scenario, you’d all be dancing in the streets over 20 shots a game for the freshmen.

 

[BruinVol]

I did 14.5 shots combined between the two as my cutoff point. I excluded Alabama, Florida and Missouri without Springer (all below 1.0ppp)

Greater than 14.5- 1.06
Less than 14.5- 1.026

You changed the criteria there

Also springer played against bama
Give me the numbers for when at least one shoots 11 or more times. They was the stat in the op

if that shows the same pts per Possession then the op is worthless

The Georgia and Kentucky wins might make that stat look good btw

 

[VolGee4]

The problem is nobody else can create their own shot besides Jaden and Keon and we don’t run ball screens to get guys open looks so how do you suggest we get more shots for other guys

I can't say that I've watched extensively the last few games, but we set Pons up at the FT line a couple of times in the second half against Ole Miss. He couldn't convert.

I've always said that Fulky just needs touches inside to open up the offense. He and Pons have to get more aggressive though. Pons could create a little if he would use his body.

 

[zjcvols]

You changed the criteria there

Also springer played against bama
Give me the numbers for when at least one shoots 11 or more times. They was the stat in the op

if that shows the same pts per Possession then the op is worthless

The Georgia and Kentucky wins might make that stat look good btw

He played 5 minutes and got hurt I’m not counting it.

If Springer or Johnson shoot more than shots is 1.01, if they both shoot single digits it’s 1.06...a difference. But not too big

 

[BruinVol]

He played 5 minutes and got hurt I’m not counting it.

If Springer or Johnson shoot more than shots is 1.01, if they both shoot single digits it’s 1.06...a difference. But not too big

Thanks for the stat. Did you use the florida or Mizzu game?

I don’t follow that stat close enough to know how wide the swings usually are from good to bad

 

[brockytop]

I am not a Barnes basher but I’ll admit I thought we needed to turn the keys over to them. I was wrong. They need to play within the system and keep their shots down and the stats prove that

You can’t say these stats prove much of anything minus analyzing other aspects of team and the pros/cons of other player contributions (or lack thereof). Hard not to want Springer shooting when he’s 50% from the floor, 47% from 3 point line, and 80% at the FT line and had made 25 FTs straight.

Johnson either needs to improve 3 pt % (26.8%) or shoot less of them. Head scratching to think he’s shot more 3’s than Springer.

 

[brockytop]

Not to burst anyone’s fun bubble, but a complex set of interconnected variables can’t be assessed by pulling out single inputs and claiming causation against an outcome. If our inside game was effective, it would draw defensive attention, and that would free up open shots for KJ and JS. In that scenario more shots by them probably equates to more wins. With an anemic inside game, the freshmen are getting doubled on drives, and overdefended on the outside. This offense is dependent on balance. Fulky being weak at the high and low spot kills the chemistry. You can bet his 15/8 SEC average of 2020 gets him a double team and open shooter most possessions. In that scenario, you’d all be dancing in the streets over 20 shots a game for the freshmen.

BINGO!

 

[BruinVol]

You can’t say these stats prove much of anything minus analyzing other aspects of team and the pros/cons of other player contributions (or lack thereof). Hard not to want Springer shooting when he’s 50% from the floor, 47% from 3 point line, and 80% at the FT line and had made 25 FTs straight.

Johnson either needs to improve 3 pt % (26.8%) or shoot less of them. Head scratching to think he’s shot more 3’s than Springer.

I have lumped the 2 together for this topic and that might be mistake. I do think it’s certainly reasonable to think Springer needs to shoot more 3s. Keon takes too many 17footers imo and it seems to be the games he takes so many shots that we struggle in

as I said before i think Keon is so dang competitive that when we get behind he starts being overly aggressive. I love that alpha man attitude but he isn’t all the way there offensively yet to do that successfully very often

 

[ArdentVol]

Not to burst anyone’s fun bubble, but a complex set of interconnected variables can’t be assessed by pulling out single inputs and claiming causation against an outcome. If our inside game was effective, it would draw defensive attention, and that would free up open shots for KJ and JS. In that scenario more shots by them probably equates to more wins. With an anemic inside game, the freshmen are getting doubled on drives, and overdefended on the outside. This offense is dependent on balance. Fulky being weak at the high and low spot kills the chemistry. You can bet his 15/8 SEC average of 2020 gets him a double team and open shooter most possessions. In that scenario, you’d all be dancing in the streets over 20 shots a game for the freshmen.

Good Post
Off Topic: There Was A Light is great read

 

[Fullfillmer]

When Keon OR Springer take 11 or more shots in a game we are 2-5.

In our 16 wins Keon/Springer average taking 15 shots a game.

In our 5 losses with both Keon/Springer playing they average taking 22 shots per game.


I think most would agree the South Carolina game was our best offensive game in a long time and just for reference Keon and Springer took 13 shots in that game.

Ok - It seems like you pay attention to this sort of stuff so --- here is my assessment for what it is worth --- some on here change philosophy like some people change underwear.
They should have never made either of these guys the point guard in the offense. They can and should bring the ball up the court but then SV or VB needs to play the point and the other two need to be playing wings or the 3 or something else. Springer can shoot the 3 - Keon not so much.

The biggest problem that we have is that Springer, Keon, Fulky and Pons all love to operate from the same general area on the court. 1. This creates a huge log jam where no one can move or get open, when Keon or Springer have it and are working in and around the paint - Fulky and Pons become strictly rebounders but they have also clogged the lanes. There is no one to dish it out to ...... even if they want to (which they don't) .....it's a bit of a disaster really.

Keon and Springer are the best athletes and players and so everyone defers to them - but that does not make for the best offense. When did we look the best and when were we playing the best ? When only one of them were in at a time and others were playing the point. The assist to turnover ratio was about 2 to 1 with several games where we had 20 plus assists. Are Vescovi and Bailey great point guards ... no - but we were better - the ball was touched and distributed by and to more people.

Here is the other thing - with the ball in Keon and Springers hands 85 per cent of the time - they are tired and their defense on the other end is not nearly as good as it was earlier in the year.

We needed a solution when teams really got physical with our point guards - but the solution of Springer and Keon playing the point created many more problems than it solved imho. I am not a D1 basketball coach so I don't have the answer but it revolves around returned to some form of what we did the first half of the season. I am not saying that either Keon or Springer are selfish ( they are not ) or that they shouldn't be playing at the same time - neither should be playing the point - they are miserable at it - and it bogs down and clogs up the rest of the offense.

My humble opinion ---

 

[BruinVol]

Ok - It seems like you pay attention to this sort of stuff so --- here is my assessment for what it is worth --- some on here change philosophy like some people change underwear.
They should have never made either of these guys the point guard in the offense. They can and should bring the ball up the court but then SV or VB needs to play the point and the other two need to be playing wings or the 3 or something else. Springer can shoot the 3 - Keon not so much.

The biggest problem that we have is that Springer, Keon, Fulky and Pons all love to operate from the same general area on the court. 1. This creates a huge log jam where no one can move or get open, when Keon or Springer have it and are working in and around the paint - Fulky and Pons become strictly rebounders but they have also clogged the lanes. There is no one to dish it out to ...... even if they want to (which they don't) .....it's a bit of a disaster really.

Keon and Springer are the best athletes and players and so everyone defers to them - but that does not make for the best offense. When did we look the best and when were we playing the best ? When only one of them were in at a time and others were playing the point. The assist to turnover ratio was about 2 to 1 with several games where we had 20 plus assists. Are Vescovi and Bailey great point guards ... no - but we were better - the ball was touched and distributed by and to more people.

Here is the other thing - with the ball in Keon and Springers hands 85 per cent of the time - they are tired and their defense on the other end is not nearly as good as it was earlier in the year.

We needed a solution when teams really got physical with our point guards - but the solution of Springer and Keon playing the point created many more problems than it solved imho. I am not a D1 basketball coach so I don't have the answer but it revolves around returned to some form of what we did the first half of the season. I am not saying that either Keon or Springer are selfish ( they are not ) or that they shouldn't be playing at the same time - neither should be playing the point - they are miserable at it - and it bogs down and clogs up the rest of the offense.

My humble opinion ---

I like this post a lot and I’ll be the first to admit I have changed what I thought was best for this team a number of times .

I don’t think SV is an elite Pg but I am willing to admit him staying at PG might have been best for this team.

 

[Fullfillmer]

I like this post a lot and I’ll be the first to admit I have changed what I thought was best for this team a number of times .

I don’t think SV is an elite Pg but I am willing to admit him staying at PG might have been best for this team.

We will have other problems with SV and VB at the point, but Keon can't dribble well enough and he never, ever looks to pass and Springer hasn't played it enough to distribute it well either. He dribbles in and then tries to pass it in tight quarters with 4 defenders all swiping at it - it doesn't work. You have to have decent spacing and people moving and cutting and ball movement. We don't have much of any of that going on - with Keon or Springer working one on two or one on three in the paint area. Keon and Springer can take anyone one on one - unfortunately we are so packed together with them dribbling the ball to start with that we don't create situations where they are working one on one.

 

[Teeboy]

I find the chances of us winning more than 1 game in either tourney next to impossible relying on just Johnson, springer and Bailey.

if pons, Fulky or James can’t play big roles we are finished imo

Totally agree....but, I think that's true of any SEC team.....individual play will not win this tournament or progress through the NCAA.......IMO

 

[1985Vols]

Many of the regular Barnes bashers here were clamoring for the team to play more through the freshmen.

I cringe to think what our record would be without Springer and Keon. We would be like Vanderbilt

 

[1985Vols]

Not to burst anyone’s fun bubble, but a complex set of interconnected variables can’t be assessed by pulling out single inputs and claiming causation against an outcome. If our inside game was effective, it would draw defensive attention, and that would free up open shots for KJ and JS. In that scenario more shots by them probably equates to more wins. With an anemic inside game, the freshmen are getting doubled on drives, and overdefended on the outside. This offense is dependent on balance. Fulky being weak at the high and low spot kills the chemistry. You can bet his 15/8 SEC average of 2020 gets him a double team and open shooter most possessions. In that scenario, you’d all be dancing in the streets over 20 shots a game for the freshmen.

And if Anosike could hit bunnies we would be even better

 

[Roustabout]

When Keon OR Springer take 11 or more shots in a game we are 2-5.

In our 16 wins Keon/Springer average taking 15 shots a game.

In our 5 losses with both Keon/Springer playing they average taking 22 shots per game.


I think most would agree the South Carolina game was our best offensive game in a long time and just for reference Keon and Springer took 13 shots in that game.

That makes no sense. 15 is “or more.”

 

[Roustabout]

And if Anosike could hit bunnies we would be even better

His sister was a lady vol and I think they share their verticals.

 

[The Dog]

His sister was a lady vol and I think they share their verticals.

Nicky had more hops

 

[Roustabout]

I cringe to think what our record would be without Springer and Keon. We would be like Vanderbilt

Exactly. Last year, this team was missing the dance.
They are better, but those players that were missing the dance are still the main minute getters.

 

[BruinVol]

That makes no sense. 15 is “or more.”

It’s simple

When Keon or Springer take 11 or more shots we don’t win very much

 

[The Dog]

It’s simple

When Keon or Springer take 11 or more shots we don’t win very much

How much of that is Keon ? It seems like other than one or 2 games, Springer doesn't shoot a lot, unless he is hitting. I may be wrong about Springer, but his %'s are great in all 3 shooting categories

 

[BruinVol]

How much of that is Keon ? It seems like other than one or 2 games, Springer doesn't shoot a lot, unless he is hitting. I may be wrong about Springer, but his %'s are great in all 3 shooting categories

Yea I have said in this thread I might not should lumped them together and When things are going poorly Keon tries his best to bring us back. I think he tries to do too much when we aren’t going well. At Rupp was great but i am afraid it was fools gold