Stars and Recruiting Ranking discussion
- Thread starter BelieveTheHeup93
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If I were to guess I'd say Clemsons recruiting rankings preceeding their national championships, but again thats just a guess. If thats it though, it should be noted we don't play in the ACC and get to cruise to the playoffs.
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VolForLife83 and lifeisdeep
Correct!
Other things that should be noted:
- they beat SEC dominant team Bama for NC
- playoff will soon be 12 teams
- portal wasn’t a thing so no one really had the opportunity to add multiple impact players at positions of need
I’m not saying we shouldn’t want top 5 classes. I am saying we can win, and win big, without them.
Other things that should be noted:
- they beat SEC dominant team Bama for NC
- playoff will soon be 12 teams
- portal wasn’t a thing so no one really had the opportunity to add multiple impact players at positions of need
I’m not saying we shouldn’t want top 5 classes. I am saying we can win, and win big, without them.
I didn’t say it proved the rule. I simply pointed out it can be done. The fact in can be done (and was in the last decade) + portal + unique offensive system + 12 team playoff = you don’t have to have top 5 classes every year.
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knox73 and Orange_Crush
I mean, sure but Clemson essentially had 12 scrimmages and two NFL franchise caliber QBs.
I'll never underestimate this coaching staff, and I think we're about to be routinely landing elite QB's... but yeah, Clemson is kind of an outlier. I don't think the expanded playoffs are going to be like march madness where there are cindarella stories. I think there will be a lot of one sided games and generally speaking, the teams with the highest rated recruiting classes will have a direct correlation to who ultimately wins it all.
Fortunately for us, we're about to start recruiting at an elite level as well.
I'll never underestimate this coaching staff, and I think we're about to be routinely landing elite QB's... but yeah, Clemson is kind of an outlier. I don't think the expanded playoffs are going to be like march madness where there are cindarella stories. I think there will be a lot of one sided games and generally speaking, the teams with the highest rated recruiting classes will have a direct correlation to who ultimately wins it all.
Fortunately for us, we're about to start recruiting at an elite level as well.
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You have to have top 5 classes if you want to win a NC. There is just way too much data that backs that up. The Clemson exception is rare. A complete outlier. You. Ring up the portal. Portal players don’t guarantee anything. They can be program changing or just decent.
Now do I think we can win NY6 bowls without top 5 recruiting classes? Yes. Can we make the playoffs without top 5 classes? Yes. Win a NC? Highly unlikely.
Now do I think we can win NY6 bowls without top 5 recruiting classes? Yes. Can we make the playoffs without top 5 classes? Yes. Win a NC? Highly unlikely.
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Dansky
That is the goal but your fixation on stars has nothing to do with it. UT needs to build a talented and deep roster. You recruit potential. You develop it. That’s how you build a roster. That could be top 5 classes or in reality a full roster averaging in the top 20 with great development and coaching
The recruiting sites aren’t nearly as accurate at finding all the guys with elite potential as you think. Case in point they said Sampson was a 3*. The same for Spraggins who now has some projecting him as a 1st round draftee
The recruiting sites aren’t nearly as accurate at finding all the guys with elite potential as you think. Case in point they said Sampson was a 3*. The same for Spraggins who now has some projecting him as a 1st round draftee
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You build talented and deep rosters like Bama, UGA and OSU have done. By recruiting as many high 4 and 5* players as you can.
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ScornedPapaVol and jvols1999
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Did the recruiting sites whiff on
Tua
Hurts
May
Darnell Wright
Caleb Williams
Kyler Murray
Trevor Lawrence
Jalen Carter
Nolan Smith
Najee Harris
Derrick Henry
Jerry Jeudy
Devonte Smith
Jalen Waddle
Tee Higgins
Rashan Gary
Justin Fields
Just to name a small few?
Tua
Hurts
May
Darnell Wright
Caleb Williams
Kyler Murray
Trevor Lawrence
Jalen Carter
Nolan Smith
Najee Harris
Derrick Henry
Jerry Jeudy
Devonte Smith
Jalen Waddle
Tee Higgins
Rashan Gary
Justin Fields
Just to name a small few?
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ScornedPapaVol
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Just stop, you can argue with me all you want about ratings because you don’t like what I post on here, but the simple fact is the teams that consistently finish in the top 5 in recruiting are usually the teams that finish in the top 5 on the field. Georgia, Bama, Ohio State, OU, Michigan, and Clemson rarely finish outside the top 10 and those first 3 usually sign top 5 classes and Bama and Georgia (who have been the most dominant teams the past 7-8 years) either finish 1-3. COULD we get there without cracking the top 5 on a consistent basis? Potentially, but signing the best players each year would make it a lot easier
Most of the 5* they find are very talented, high probability players. That isn't the question. The question is do you have to have those 30 players or can you find 4* and even 3* players that become equally skilled players.
I don't hate Crompton but he was a 5*.
Other notable misses... just from UT. Some were decent players and contributors but they never played anything like one of the best 30 players in the country:
Brent Vinson
Chris Donald
Kenny O'Neal
Jonathan Mapu
James Banks
Brandon Jeffries
Jessie Mahelona
Albert Toeina
Demetrice Morley
Walter Fisher
Ben Martin
Da'Rick Rogers
Drew Richmond
Kahlil McKenzie
Kyle Phillips
Jonathan Kongbo
I don't hate Crompton but he was a 5*.
Other notable misses... just from UT. Some were decent players and contributors but they never played anything like one of the best 30 players in the country:
Brent Vinson
Chris Donald
Kenny O'Neal
Jonathan Mapu
James Banks
Brandon Jeffries
Jessie Mahelona
Albert Toeina
Demetrice Morley
Walter Fisher
Ben Martin
Da'Rick Rogers
Drew Richmond
Kahlil McKenzie
Kyle Phillips
Jonathan Kongbo
No. YOU just stop acting like a drooling idiot over "stars" like the only good players are the ones who the recruiting sites lavish with "stars".
Right. And who do you think follows who? UGA, OSU, Bama, and Clemson in particular have demonstrated they can find and develop talent. They have huge, hungry fanbases. It only makes sense for the recruiting sites to take notice of who they value and rate them highly. If the teacher left the room and you were inclined to copy someone's answers on a test... you'd pick the ones who made the best grades, right? That's what the recruit rankings do.
It is great if you can get guys that Saban or Smart really want. There's a real good chance that those players are very good. There's a near certainty that the recruiting sites will rank them high. That does NOT mean that there aren't several players with 3* rankings with just as much potential.
You almost got it right. Finding and signing the "best" players with the highest potential is the sum total of the game. That doesn't mean you have to sign 5* players rather than 4* or 3* players.
Seldon I think is someone we both like. There's a good chance IMO that he ends up being a guy that should have been rated 5*. But he didn't have an offer from Bama, UGA, OSU, or Clemson. If he had gotten a Bama or UGA offer then he's an instant 5*. That's the way that actually works... and why you can find enough talent to compete without having those "top 5 classes".
Now if the Vols DO start competing consistently at a high level then the recruiting sites will start giving Heupel's recruits more love.... they'll get the benefit of the doubt too.
Right. And who do you think follows who? UGA, OSU, Bama, and Clemson in particular have demonstrated they can find and develop talent. They have huge, hungry fanbases. It only makes sense for the recruiting sites to take notice of who they value and rate them highly. If the teacher left the room and you were inclined to copy someone's answers on a test... you'd pick the ones who made the best grades, right? That's what the recruit rankings do.
It is great if you can get guys that Saban or Smart really want. There's a real good chance that those players are very good. There's a near certainty that the recruiting sites will rank them high. That does NOT mean that there aren't several players with 3* rankings with just as much potential.
You almost got it right. Finding and signing the "best" players with the highest potential is the sum total of the game. That doesn't mean you have to sign 5* players rather than 4* or 3* players.
Seldon I think is someone we both like. There's a good chance IMO that he ends up being a guy that should have been rated 5*. But he didn't have an offer from Bama, UGA, OSU, or Clemson. If he had gotten a Bama or UGA offer then he's an instant 5*. That's the way that actually works... and why you can find enough talent to compete without having those "top 5 classes".
Now if the Vols DO start competing consistently at a high level then the recruiting sites will start giving Heupel's recruits more love.... they'll get the benefit of the doubt too.
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9876543vol and onevol74
The "hits" really don't illustrate the point. They give out around 30 5* ratings per year. There are legitimately 100-200 guys who are just as equally deserving. About 60% or 18-20 of the ones they label 5* will eventually be drafted. Frankly, that's really not all that good even with the 5*. But it gives them enough correct ratings to be "credible"
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knox73 and 9876543vol
The first year Clemson won the NC their classes averaged 11th. Michigan's roster talent last fall according to 247's composite was 13th in the country. UGA was 2nd. OSU was 3rd. TCU was 32nd.
Bama was #1 and beaten by UT #19 and LSU #8.
Texas A&M was supposedly the 4th most talented team... and couldn't manage a winning record.
Oregon was ranked 7th and went 10-3 with a loss to Oregon St who was 54th. That should literally NEVER happen if your faith in the recruiting sites was warranted.
Their accuracy isn't proven by liking the talent signed by UGA, OSU, Clemson, and Bama. Any idiot can do that. Their accuracy or lack thereof is how well they predict teams after the top 5 or 6.
Bama was #1 and beaten by UT #19 and LSU #8.
Texas A&M was supposedly the 4th most talented team... and couldn't manage a winning record.
Oregon was ranked 7th and went 10-3 with a loss to Oregon St who was 54th. That should literally NEVER happen if your faith in the recruiting sites was warranted.
Their accuracy isn't proven by liking the talent signed by UGA, OSU, Clemson, and Bama. Any idiot can do that. Their accuracy or lack thereof is how well they predict teams after the top 5 or 6.
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9876543vol
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