Someone make me feel optimistic about Team 121.

#178
#178
BaldBiker said:
To each his own I guess, because I would say it's more ridiculous to think that Dobbs was a saving grace than the defense was the major issue.

Let's see...

App State - -5yds rushing
VT - 106 yds rushing 2 TD's (Let's subtract those two TD's, we still win 31-24) He didn't save us. Defense should have never given up the yards or points to VT
Ohio - 59 yds rushing 1 TD ( Didn't save us, we still win 21 - 19 (No way Ohio should have scored 19 on us.
FL - 80 yds 1 TD (we win 31 - 28 without it) Once again, should last years FL team have been able to score 28...no.
Ga 26 yds rushing 1 TD (yes we would have lost without it, but is that what saved the game? No. It was a Hail Mary.) No way that GA team (with a freshman QB, which according to you has to suck) should have scored 31 pts on us.
AtM 57 yds rushing 0 TD's rushing (defense gave up 21 1st qtr pts...then another 27 the rest of the game.
Bama -31 yds rushing (offense sucked, defense sucked worse)
USCe 27 yds rushing ( many say Dobbs lost that game for us) Should last years USCe team have been able to score 24 on us? By this time of the year...we were expecting it...but no they shouldn't have.
TTU Dobbs could have sat out the whole game, we still would have killed them.
KY 129 yds 2 TD's (ok, without his 2 rushing TD's we lose...but come on, seriously KY scored 36 pts on our defense! Was it more Dobbs saving us or the defense trying to hand KY a win?)
Mizzou 190 yds rushing 2 TD's (lol...we could have taken both of his rushing TD's and one of someone else's TD's off the board and still won) The bigger question....how did that crap Mizzou team score 37 pts?
Vandy 53 yds rushing (he sure as hell didn't save shi* here did he?) Vanderbilt scored 45 pts on our defense!
Nebraska 118 yds rushing 3 TD's (He however did not save us in this game. UT was never not in control)

There are two games that even remotely come close to the "he saved our asses in a lot of games last year" that you claimed. Yet every damn game, maybe with the exception of Nebraska, our defense gave up points that should not have been given up.

Like I said....Defense was more of a problem than Dobbs was a savior.

I love Dobbs and wish him all the best in the NFL. Doesn't change the fact that some of you are worshipping him just a little too much.
Click to expand...

This is a horrible way to look at things, IMO. Stats don't get put up in a vacuum.

That offense, like most spread offenses, was totally dependent on the QB (Dobbs). As Dobbs went, so did the UT offense.

His legs made things easier for his arm and at times, his arm made things easier for his legs.

Your analysis doesn't show how many drives he kept alive with his legs. How many times he turned a negative yardage play into a positive yardage play. If nobody is open and he scampers 7 yards on 3rd and 5 for a first down.....that goes into the stat sheet as a 7 yard gain.....but, what's bigger is that it kept a drive alive that resulted in a TD.

It also doesn't show that on a 13 yard gain by Jalen Hurd, the biggest factor in the play was the defense focusing more on stopping Dobbs keeping the ball than they were Hurd receiving the handoff. It doesn't show how often a defense had one less player in pass coverage because they were using a spy on Dobbs. It doesn't show how the offensive line was aided by Dobbs because an opposing defensive line as instructed not to rush Dobbs because they'd rather keep him in the pocket than rush, miss, and have him take off.

Looking purely at a stat sheet does not tell the whole story.
 
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#179
#179
99gator said:
This is a horrible way to look at things, IMO. Stats don't get put up in a vacuum.

That offense, like most spread offenses, was totally dependent on the QB (Dobbs). As Dobbs went, so did the UT offense.

His legs made things easier for his arm and at times, his arm made things easier for his legs.

Your analysis doesn't show how many drives he kept alive with his legs. How many times he turned a negative yardage play into a positive yardage play. If nobody is open and he scampers 7 yards on 3rd and 5 for a first down.....that goes into the stat sheet as a 7 yard gain.....but, what's bigger is that it kept a drive alive that resulted in a TD.

It also doesn't show that on a 13 yard gain by Jalen Hurd, the biggest factor in the play was the defense focusing more on stopping Dobbs keeping the ball than they were Hurd receiving the handoff. It doesn't show how often a defense had one less player in pass coverage because they were using a spy on Dobbs. It doesn't show how the offensive line was aided by Dobbs because an opposing defensive line as instructed not to rush Dobbs because they'd rather keep him in the pocket than rush, miss, and have him take off.

Looking purely at a stat sheet does not tell the whole story.
Click to expand...


That was how this whole discussion started. I was the one that said looking at stats from last year/previous years made no difference to what will happen next year.

You are in fact correct. Those stats mean nothing, just like I said in the beginning. But if people want to keep throwing stats out there to try and prove a point...hell, I can play that game all day and disprove them with stats. Why? Because those stats show nothing of what you mentioned, just like those stats don't show anything about how an offense will be changed up to suit the next QB that comes in as a starter. Those stats show nothing of how a good scrambling QB who is willing to throw it down field, rather than take off running, will do either.

Thank you for helping prove my point. This whole notion that because Dobbs was such a good runner that any other QB that doesn't play like Dobbs is going to be worthless is pretty silly though. Is whoever takes the reigns going to be good? We'll find out. To write them off before they have had a chance is kind of silly though. To base your argument for this based off of Dobbs TD runs and stats (which was done) is ludicrous.

:hi:
 
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#180
#180
It is the nature of college football that you loose productive players with household names. They will be replaced by other players that have been waiting. Soon you'll know there names. When you have big name players sometimes the younger players wait for the stars to do it. We may be better off if everyone is trying to get it done. We have talent and now better coaches. I am optimistic but worried by the lack of depth in some spots.
 
#182
#182
Vol@PennState said:
1) We return 4 of 5 starters on o-line from an offense that set a school record for points, and even more experienced, talented depth. The most likely newcomer to the rotation is the #1 high school football player in the country.

2) We return a running back who averaged 6.4 yards per carry (on a significant sample size of carries). His backup will be a 4-star sophomore from South Florida or the #5 high school running back in the country last year.

3) We will start either a highly touted 4-star who's spent 2 years in the program or the #1 rated dual threat quarterback in the country who's spent 1 year in the program. Both were offered by Bama, and both (unlike last year) will receive guidance from a quarterbacks coach.

4) We replaced the weakest link on the coaching staff with a highly respected DBs coach. We lose our best corner, but we only got 2 healthy games out of him last year anyway. We have serious talent there, especially if Byrd moves over to defense, and with a little coaching, this could be the greatest area of improvement on the team.

5) We will not have the cataclysm of injuries we had last year. Besides the sheer improbability of that happening two years in a row (or ever), we've replaced our S&C coach with a well respected NFL guy. Plus, the returning players will help our defense return to the form they showed early last year. We get KMac back, we get Tuttle back, we get Sapp back, Kirkland at full strength...

6) We have an excellent senior punter, a dependable senior kicker, and the best kickoff returner in the country (assuming he can bounce back from injury).

7) We have fewer distractions (Hurd) and lower expectations.

8) Georgia, who we beat last year, loses 3 senior starters off an offensive line that was one of the worst in the country (101st in Adjusted Line Yards) and replaces them with either backups who couldn't beat out those sub-mediocre departing seniors, or true freshmen.

9) Florida, who we beat last year, lose their best DT, their best LB, their 2nd best LB, their best corner, their 2nd best corner, and best safety. They do return 4 of 5 starters on the o-line, but that line finished 113th in rushing last year. And behind that line, they'll either start an untested redshirt freshmen or a tested, ineffective junior at quarterback.

10) Not for this year, but general reasons to feel optimistic... We are Tennessee. We're coming off 3 straight winning seasons and bowl wins. We have legit talent in the program again. We've made it back from the dead, and are gaining strength year by year. We survived a catastrophic spate of injuries last year. We upgraded the staff immensely this year. 2018 looks to be a huge recruiting year, especially in state.

There is seriously a ton to be excited about, and I will never understand the doom and gloom here these days... It's like too many years in the dark days of Dooley despair made half you guys shut your eyes for good, and now you're walking around in the sunlight complaining how dark it is.

Go Vols!!!
Click to expand...

Damn good post!
 
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#183
#183
I'm just going to borrow this and take it to another thread......and take credit for it. If you don't have a problem with that, just don't respond to me say within the next 10 seconds. :)


BaldBiker said:
^^-------- :) 1) We return 4 of 5 starters on o-line from an offense that set a school record for points, and even more experienced, talented depth. The most likely newcomer to the rotation is the #1 high school football player in the country.

2) We return a running back who averaged 6.4 yards per carry (on a significant sample size of carries). His backup will be a 4-star sophomore from South Florida or the #5 high school running back in the country last year.

3) We will start either a highly touted 4-star who's spent 2 years in the program or the #1 rated dual threat quarterback in the country who's spent 1 year in the program. Both were offered by Bama, and both (unlike last year) will receive guidance from a quarterbacks coach.

4) We replaced the weakest link on the coaching staff with a highly respected DBs coach. We lose our best corner, but we only got 2 healthy games out of him last year anyway. We have serious talent there, especially if Byrd moves over to defense, and with a little coaching, this could be the greatest area of improvement on the team.

5) We will not have the cataclysm of injuries we had last year. Besides the sheer improbability of that happening two years in a row (or ever), we've replaced our S&C coach with a well respected NFL guy. Plus, the returning players will help our defense return to the form they showed early last year. We get KMac back, we get Tuttle back, we get Sapp back, Kirkland at full strength...

6) We have an excellent senior punter, a dependable senior kicker, and the best kickoff returner in the country (assuming he can bounce back from injury).

7) We have fewer distractions (Hurd) and lower expectations.

8) Georgia, who we beat last year, loses 3 senior starters off an offensive line that was one of the worst in the country (101st in Adjusted Line Yards) and replaces them with either backups who couldn't beat out those sub-mediocre departing seniors, or true freshmen.

9) Florida, who we beat last year, lose their best DT, their best LB, their 2nd best LB, their best corner, their 2nd best corner, and best safety. They do return 4 of 5 starters on the o-line, but that line finished 113th in rushing last year. And behind that line, they'll either start an untested redshirt freshmen or a tested, ineffective junior at quarterback.

10) Not for this year, but general reasons to feel optimistic... We are Tennessee. We're coming off 3 straight winning seasons and bowl wins. We have legit talent in the program again. We've made it back from the dead, and are gaining strength year by year. We survived a catastrophic spate of injuries last year. We upgraded the staff immensely this year. 2018 looks to be a huge recruiting year, especially in state.

There is seriously a ton to be excited about, and I will never understand the doom and gloom here these days... It's like too many years in the dark days of Dooley despair made half you guys shut your eyes for good, and now you're walking around in the sunlight complaining how dark it is.

Go Vols!!!
Click to expand...

:gone:
 
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#187
#187
JonGrudensAgent said:
Because the thread is about making the OP feel optimistic, not facing the possibility that Shoop is Sunseri 2.0.
Click to expand...

OK, for the OP then:

1. Schedule: Opening with a neutral game sucks, but ther than our yearly beating by Alabama, or only 'tough' road game is in the swamp. Hopefully, getting Muschamp in Neyland will finally that monkey off Butch's back.

2. Less hype, less pressure: Going back and watching games from 2015 and 2016, Butch struggles with high expectations. For whatever reason he gets extremely conservative with his game plan, and seems to try to sit on leads. 2017, with all of the new starters on both sides of the ball, and GA being the preseason favorite to win the SECe, hopefully he'll be less affected by the pressure of the game.

3. Defensive Coaching Changes: Hoke has consistently done well as a DL coach, and with Martinez out and Warren in, hopefully we'll actually have a functioning defensive backfield again.
 
#188
#188
BeardedVol said:
OK, for the OP then:

1. Schedule: Opening with a neutral game sucks, but ther than our yearly beating by Alabama, or only 'tough' road game is in the swamp. Hopefully, getting Muschamp in Neyland will finally that monkey off Butch's back.

2. Less hype, less pressure: Going back and watching games from 2015 and 2016, Butch struggles with high expectations. For whatever reason he gets extremely conservative with his game plan, and seems to try to sit on leads. 2017, with all of the new starters on both sides of the ball, and GA being the preseason favorite to win the SECe, hopefully he'll be less affected by the pressure of the game.

3. Defensive Coaching Changes: Hoke has consistently done well as a DL coach, and with Martinez out and Warren in, hopefully we'll actually have a functioning defensive backfield again.
Click to expand...

that's actually not true. you go back and watch, especially the 2015 FL and OU games, 2013 GA game, 2015 GA game, even the 2016 FL game, the game plans were actually fairly aggressive, and i'd say in particular the 2015 FL game, they were definitely in play to win mode.

where it gets dicey for Butch is in situational football in big spots. that's where those 1 or 2 decisions can get him in trouble. the chart decision not going for two. the FG's against OU inside the 5, the end of game possessions against FL in 2015...

but the game plans themselves, actually fairly aggressive. it's the inability to seemingly trust the players to make the play in big spots, is where he crawls in to a shell and goes back to the "handbook".
 
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#190
#190
Why team 121 has great potential? One man - Quart'e Sapp
IMO, he and DKjr will play at high level this year.
 
#191
#191
jakez4ut said:
that's actually not true. you go back and watch, especially the 2015 FL and OU games, 2013 GA game, 2015 GA game, even the 2016 FL game, the game plans were actually fairly aggressive, and i'd say in particular the 2015 FL game, they were definitely in play to win mode.

where it gets dicey for Butch is in situational football in big spots. that's where those 1 or 2 decisions can get him in trouble. the chart decision not going for two. the FG's against OU inside the 5, the end of game possessions against FL in 2015...

but the game plans themselves, actually fairly aggressive. it's the inability to seemingly trust the players to make the play in big spots, is where he crawls in to a shell and goes back to the "handbook".
Click to expand...

I will always believe that he will start with the most conservative game plan and loosen up if we get behind, then pull back one possession early giving the opposition a chance.

I felt 120 lacked sense of urgency, they didn't blink when faced with needing to convert a Hail Mary to win. That's taking confidence to a new level. I like it.

Release the Beast!
 
#192
#192
Iam4utalways said:
I will always believe that he will start with the most conservative game plan and loosen up if we get behind, then pull back one possession early giving the opposition a chance.

I felt 120 lacked sense of urgency, they didn't blink when faced with needing to convert a Hail Mary to win. That's taking confidence to a new level. I like it.

Release the Beast!
Click to expand...

had we had some better execution at multiple times in either of the last two fl games, neither would have been all that close, and would have removed CBJ from having to make situational decisions that make me cringe.

the game plans, in general, aren't the issue.
 
#194
#194
Vol@PennState said:
1) We return 4 of 5 starters on o-line from an offense that set a school record for points, and even more experienced, talented depth. The most likely newcomer to the rotation is the #1 high school football player in the country.

2) We return a running back who averaged 6.4 yards per carry (on a significant sample size of carries). His backup will be a 4-star sophomore from South Florida or the #5 high school running back in the country last year.

3) We will start either a highly touted 4-star who's spent 2 years in the program or the #1 rated dual threat quarterback in the country who's spent 1 year in the program. Both were offered by Bama, and both (unlike last year) will receive guidance from a quarterbacks coach.

4) We replaced the weakest link on the coaching staff with a highly respected DBs coach. We lose our best corner, but we only got 2 healthy games out of him last year anyway. We have serious talent there, especially if Byrd moves over to defense, and with a little coaching, this could be the greatest area of improvement on the team.

5) We will not have the cataclysm of injuries we had last year. Besides the sheer improbability of that happening two years in a row (or ever), we've replaced our S&C coach with a well respected NFL guy. Plus, the returning players will help our defense return to the form they showed early last year. We get KMac back, we get Tuttle back, we get Sapp back, Kirkland at full strength...

6) We have an excellent senior punter, a dependable senior kicker, and the best kickoff returner in the country (assuming he can bounce back from injury).

7) We have fewer distractions (Hurd) and lower expectations.

8) Georgia, who we beat last year, loses 3 senior starters off an offensive line that was one of the worst in the country (101st in Adjusted Line Yards) and replaces them with either backups who couldn't beat out those sub-mediocre departing seniors, or true freshmen.

9) Florida, who we beat last year, lose their best DT, their best LB, their 2nd best LB, their best corner, their 2nd best corner, and best safety. They do return 4 of 5 starters on the o-line, but that line finished 113th in rushing last year. And behind that line, they'll either start an untested redshirt freshmen or a tested, ineffective junior at quarterback.

10) Not for this year, but general reasons to feel optimistic... We are Tennessee. We're coming off 3 straight winning seasons and bowl wins. We have legit talent in the program again. We've made it back from the dead, and are gaining strength year by year. We survived a catastrophic spate of injuries last year. We upgraded the staff immensely this year. 2018 looks to be a huge recruiting year, especially in state.

There is seriously a ton to be excited about, and I will never understand the doom and gloom here these days... It's like too many years in the dark days of Dooley despair made half you guys shut your eyes for good, and now you're walking around in the sunlight complaining how dark it is.

Go Vols!!!
Click to expand...

You seriously need to copywrite this post before some lame ass with a USA today network newspaper swipes it.
 
#195
#195
ice said:
Many new players stepping up for 2017. New coaches everywhere.
Does anyone have an idea how all this will shake out?.
I am lost.
Click to expand...




Hope for the best, brace yourself for the worst in Butch Jones 5th season
 
#196
#196
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQbaWzWFsSs[/youtube]
What Spock said.
 
#197
#197
I think we will have more quality depth across the board than in previous years.
2017 Leaving/Return from 2/3 deep along with notable additions(top 30 @ pos):

Key:
Leaving
Returning
Addition
  • Offense:
    • QB:
      • Dobbs
      • Guarantano and Dormady
    • WR:
      • Malone
      • Jennings, Smith, Callaway, Byrd, Johnson, George
      • Murphy
    • RB:
      • Kamara
      • Kelly, Fils-Aime
      • Chandler
    • OL:
      • Wiesman
      • Richmond, Robertson, Thomas, Kendrick, Jones, Tatum
      • Smith
    • TE:
      • Croom
      • Wolf, Oliver
  • Defense:
    • DE:
      • Vereen, Barnett, Lewis
      • Phillips, Kongbo(could play DT)
    • DT:
      • Tuttle, Mckenzie, Vickers, Mixon, Kongbo(possibly)
      • Crosby
    • LBs:
      • Reeves-Maybin(played only 2 games in 2016)
      • Kirkland Jr, McDowell, Sapp, Jumper, Berry
      • Ignont, Bumphus
    • DBs:
      • Sutton, Foreman
      • Kelly Jr., Buchanan, Abernathy, Warrior, Berry, Moseley, Martin, Gaulden, Griffin
      • Gray
  • ST:
    • P:
      • Daniel
    • PK:
      • Medley, Toser
      • Cimaglia
    • RET:
      • Kamara, Sutton
      • Berry, Byrd, Osborne
------
Looking at this list, our largest turnover by position is DE, our biggest loss by player is probably Kamara with Dobbs a close 2nd. Besides that, I think we will have better quality depth across the board, with the possibility of an improved passing game, depending on how the OC and QBs play out. I honestly think we will have an as-good, if not better team next year, especially with another year in the defensive system.
 
Last edited:
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#199
#199
CMcEver said:
I think we will have more quality depth across the board than in previous years.
2017 Leaving/Return from 2/3 deep along with notable additions(top 30 @ pos):

Key:
Leaving
Returning
Addition
  • Offense:
    • QB:
      • Dobbs
      • Guarantano and Dormady
    • WR:
      • Malone
      • Jennings, Smith, Callaway, Byrd, Johnson, George
      • Murphy
    • RB:
      • Kamara
      • Kelly, Fils-Aime
      • Chandler
    • OL:
      • Wiesman
      • Richmond, Robertson, Thomas, Kendrick, Jones, Tatum
      • Smith
    • TE:
      • Croom
      • Wolf, Oliver
  • Defense:
    • DE:
      • Vereen, Barnett, Lewis
      • Phillips, Kongbo(could play DT)
    • DT:
      • Tuttle, Mckenzie, Vickers, Mixon, Kongbo(possibly)
      • Crosby
    • LBs:
      • Reeves-Maybin(played only 2 games in 2016)
      • Kirkland Jr, McDowell, Sapp, Jumper, Berry
      • Ignont, Bumphus
    • DBs:
      • Sutton, Foreman
      • Kelly Jr., Buchanan, Abernathy, Warrior, Berry, Moseley, Martin, Gaulden, Griffin
      • Gray
  • ST:
    • P:
      • Daniel
    • PK:
      • Medley, Toser
      • Cimaglia
    • RET:
      • Kamara, Sutton
      • Berry, Byrd, Osborne
------
Looking at this list, our largest turnover by position is DE, our biggest loss by player is probably Kamara with Dobbs a close 2nd. Besides that, I think we will have better quality depth across the board, with the possibility of an improved passing game, depending on how the OC and QBs play out. I honestly think we will have an as-good, if not better team next year, especially with another year in the defensive system.
Click to expand...

Nice file system. Do you mind adding an area for the rest of our freshman players?
 
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