Some Perspective on "Rebuilds"

#151
#151
BowlBrother85 said:
Stop with this "whoa, is me" garbage..... Tennessee has the necessary resources to be successful. Who cares what Vandy and Kentucky are doing? - or even South Carolina. The landscape hasn't changed as much as the defeatists want to think. We need the right coach. We have everything else.
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woe
 
#153
#153
It's so hard to be a Vol fan. Every time we wear a hat or a shirt we are constantly ridiculed. In our defense we say we are rebuilding and as we say it we already know the response coming. We have been saying we are rebuilding for almost 20 years. Every time they hire a new coach we get our hopes up and we do the wait. Most of us are patient and we give the coach time to turn the team around. My blood still runs Orange and I still proudly wear my shirts and hats but when it comes to defending the Vols you just have to keep your mouth shut because there is no excuses that work anymore. I have high hopes for Coach Pruitt as I did Butch Jones and those before him but when I see her team play the way they did against Florida it makes you want to just throw your hands up and just quit watching football. And I would rather quit watching football then to jump on the Alabama train like all the others. GBO!!!
 
#154
#154
volsagain said:
Probably already been posted but you can't flip rosters like you could 2 years ago. Botch signed 30 to 33 ,you can only sign 25 now.
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yep, and that 2015 class that was so highly regarded, there's only 11 players on this rosteer still left from that class. and 1 of those is a long snapper.

only 2 left early for the NFL
2 retired from football.

everyone else left the program for one reason or another. the punter from that class plays for FL now.....

60% attrition rate is just not very good. and kind of illustrates where this roster is from not only a talent standpoint, but also from an experience/leadership standpoint.

and from a RS Jr standpoint, from that class, here's who can come back next year that likely would have an opportunity to contribute/start:
Drew Richmond
Sapp
Darrell Taylor
Jennings
Austin Smith
DK jr.
Chance Hall
 
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#155
#155
jakez4ut said:
yep, and that 2015 class that was so highly regarded, there's only 11 players on this rosteer still left from that class. and 1 of those is a long snapper.

only 2 left early for the NFL
2 retired from football.

everyone else left the program for one reason or another. the punter from that class plays for FL now.....

60% attrition rate is just not very good. and kind of illustrates where this roster is from not only a talent standpoint, but also from an experience/leadership standpoint.

and from a RS Jr standpoint, from that class, here's who can come back next year that likely would have an opportunity to contribute/start:
Drew Richmond
Sapp
Darrell Taylor
Jennings
Austin Smith
DK jr.
Chance Hall
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Worth posting again in this thread. Here are the 4 and 5 star recruits from the 2015 class:

It's just depressing to go down that 2015 list of recruits, ranked from highest rating to lowest: Tennessee 2015 Football Commits

The list of 4 and 5 star recruits goes:
- somewhere between underachiever and bust
- bust
- great player but criminally under-used by the coaching staff, not his fault
- bust/left program
- pretty good player but frequently injured
- bust
- somewhere between underachiever and bust
- really good player but frequently injured
- really good player, missed an entire season due to injury
- OK but never has been able to lock down a true starting role, missed huge time to to injury
- adequate player, been in the lineup consistently
- backup QB, left program
- started, but never was any good
- retired due to injury
- eventual starter, wasn't very good, got hurt
- somewhere between underachiever and bust

The only player who I would say had their talent truly maximized from that class was John Kelly. He was a 3-star, so he isn't the list above.
 
#156
#156
tnracer73 said:
It's so hard to be a Vol fan. Every time we wear a hat or a shirt we are constantly ridiculed. In our defense we say we are rebuilding and as we say it we already know the response coming. We have been saying we are rebuilding for almost 20 years. Every time they hire a new coach we get our hopes up and we do the wait. Most of us are patient and we give the coach time to turn the team around. My blood still runs Orange and I still proudly wear my shirts and hats but when it comes to defending the Vols you just have to keep your mouth shut because there is no excuses that work anymore. I have high hopes for Coach Pruitt as I did Butch Jones and those before him but when I see her team play the way they did against Florida it makes you want to just throw your hands up and just quit watching football. And I would rather quit watching football then to jump on the Alabama train like all the others. GBO!!!
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That's when you walk away
 
#157
#157
MWAVolfan said:
Bret Bielema went 3-9 his first year, then 7-6 then 8-5 then his @ss was fired in yr 5 AT ARKANSAS.

Point is, aint nobody got "years to rebuild" anymore. This isnt 1999. When Arkansas is firing its coach for not winning more, what do you think is supposed to happen at a traditional football power like Tennessee?

UT has tried the "wait and see" thing twice in a row and it failed twice in a row. And the guy we have as head coach now has less experience that either Dooley or Lyle had when we hired them.
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I would take Pruitts resume over Dooley and Butch’s combined.
 
#158
#158
05_never_again said:
That logic dictates that unless you have managed to hire someone who will go down as one of the greatest coaches in the history of CFB, you'll fire a coach.

Barry Alvarez would have been canned at Wisconsin. Dabo absolutely would have been canned. Probably not a firing, but there would be a lot of angst about Fulmer. Bill Snyder would have been fired. Mike Gundy would have been fired. Kyle Whittingham would have been fired right before the best year in program history. Spurrier would have been canned at South Carolina. Mark Dantonio would have been fired at Michigan St. Mike Bellotti would have been fired at Oregon. None of these coaches had their programs firing on all cylinders after 3 seasons.

You have to look at each situation in isolation and consider the particulars of each rebuilding situation. They aren't all exactly alike.
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This is bogus logic. Every situation dictates a different timeline and approach.
For example, Alvarez took over a program that was 6-17 in the previous three years and won three conference games. So, Alvarez's record was still a marked improvement in his first three years. Steve Spurrier had a **** load of equity based on his name and record at Florida. Plus his first three years at SC were better than Lou's last three.
Butch Jones got five years. Why? He showed the program was in fact improving. It was. Jones turned over the roster and looked to have things going in the right direction. His collapse is remarkable but was predictable when you see how many coaches and players wanted to get away from him.
Dooley showed he didn't want to be here in year two and was lobbying to be fired. There is no one size fits all. Improvement in the program can't be just record. An AD can evaluate the roster, the culture and see if a change is on the horizon. I think this was evident with the AD at UK. He saw something inside the program that he knew would pay off down the road and gave Stoops a whale of a contract.
Dantonio also did better than his predecessor who only got four years and got worse every year. There is little doubt that a good AD could see all these coaches were improving the roster and instilling a winning culture by the end of year three.
 
#159
#159
orangepridenation said:
Yeah, it's going to take time, but people around TN are paradoxically tired of being patient.
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I hear you. Everyone is tired of waiting. Heck I am tired of waiting. But, what other option do we have? Being tired of waiting is not going to make the wait any shorter than it will be. Complaining about the wait doesn't help either. I don't believe anyone on this site isn't way past ready for us to improve. Lord knows I am and I am also tired of hearing how tired others are of the wait. I try to look for signs of improvement, no matter how small they are. As for the question of did we hire the right HC is still to be answered. I don't think his lack of HC experience has anything to do with football knowledge. If I remember Coach PF was not a head coach when he took the job here and he had success here. Be patient Grasshopper.
 
#160
#160
wmcovol said:
Pruitt isnt Lou Holtz. He isnt even Skip Holtz yet.

Im afraid this will take Pruitt alot longer than it took Lou Holtz.

Oh that SC team lost to #4 Tennessee by 23 in Knoxville that year and by 17 the following week to #4 Florida. While they didnt win a game, they did appear to play with spirit and purpose. Something we havent seen much of with the Vols in several years.
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Fire Pruitt!
 
#162
#162
It takes time for sure, but with the exception of 2016 for a brief moment we haven’t had anything truly exciting since the 2007 SEC championship game. You can’t blame the masses for growing impatient.
 
#165
#165
It shouldn't be too hard to understand Pruitt took over Butch's players, the ones who were fighting each other in practices and those guys are still playing on the team. He's been alluding to it in the press conferences pretty much since the beginning, having to fix our team before we can focus on beating other teams. That's where we are right now, beating ourselves. As honest as Pruitt may be, he's not going to tell the media and the country that these guys were fighting each other. They are learning to trust and play for each other. It's evident that it's one big thing missing on this team. Could we be better or worse with a different coach? Possibly, but I don't think you would see much change. We also have to keep in mind that CJP is building something completely different than what Butch was trying to build, and right now, we just don't have the guys Pruitt wants or needs, he's just got to make do
 
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#166
#166
Great Coaches take 2 years
Good Coaches take 3 years
Average Coaches take 4 years
New Coaches are hired in years 5-6
 
#167
#167
SaintLouisVol said:
How is that different than Jones? Jones had one bad season after back-to-back nine win seasons and was fired. Only difference is Jones had two pretty good years before the bad one. Shula only had one good season.
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Excuse me, are you arguing we should have kept CBJ ? He lucked into Josh Dobbs who bailed his a$$ out more times than not. imo, the Haslam's made a mistake in hiring him as well. Give us a couple years of real SEC coaching and recruits and you'll see real football again.
 
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#168
#168
lifeVol said:
Excuse me, are you arguing we should have kept CBJ ? He lucked into Josh Dobbs who bailed his a$$ out more times than not. imo, the Haslam's made a mistake in hiring him as well. Give us a couple years of real SEC coaching and recruits and you'll see real football again.
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Absolutely not. He should have been fired. I am simply stating that he was fired when he should have been fired, as opposed to the poster that was arguing that after 2-3 years, you should know exactly who you have and move on if he is not an elite coach.
 
#169
#169
If Saban, Myer, Dabo, Kirby etc had came to Knoxville with this roster and with this schedule, they would be 2-3 right now. Let him build it back without the legions of the miserable whining all the time.
 
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#170
#170
Roustabout said:
I would take Pruitts resume over Dooley and Butch’s combined.
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I cant say that. I KNOW Pruitt has been a part of some very successful programs, but there is a HUGE difference between being a part of it and actually engineering a successful program from the HC position. Butch Jones had some success as a HC at two programs prior to UT. Not the same success as FSU and Bama where Pruitt was, but at the same time Jones was the head man, not just a coordinator. It turned out (like many suspected) that having success as a HC at a small-time program isnt the same as doing it at a major SEC school and it also turned out that Jones has many fatal charachter flaws that make him not a very good person, which dont show in record books.

Dooley just never belonged as a HC anywhere but the high school level.
 
#171
#171
VolFan..But said:
If Saban, Myer, Dabo, Kirby etc had came to Knoxville with this roster and with this schedule, they would be 2-3 right now. Let him build it back without the legions of the miserable whining all the time.
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Maybe true, maybe not. We'll never know. What I do know is none of those guys would ever take the HC job at UT.
 
#172
#172
SaintLouisVol said:
Absolutely not. He should have been fired. I am simply stating that he was fired when he should have been fired, as opposed to the poster that was arguing that after 2-3 years, you should know exactly who you have and move on if he is not an elite coach.
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Three years is plenty of time to know.
 
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