SIAP, but looks like Kellie Harper turning out…

#51

TNnative

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#51
Fulmer had little if anything to do with the coaching change. Cronan and others with deep ties to the program fulfilled Pat’s wishes. Kellie after Holly.
That is the way I would like to look at it as well. But at that point, there was no longer an AD for womens sports. So while what you say is probably factual for the most part, Fulmer's signature was on the hiring agreement.

However, that is probably why this hire worked out. LOL. Or else Pat's spirit haunted Fulmer in the middle of the night into making a change. Yeah, I think that sounds better.
 
#52

TNnative

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#52
NOT singing his praises. Just stating facts so that we can move on from this incessant caterwauling about the great conspiracy of blue hair LV boosters who tied Phil down to a RR track until he cried uncle and agreed to Kellie's hire.
Had they done that, they would have asked me for the devices of torture. I just checked my dungeon. Nothing missing.
 
#53

madtownvol

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#53
There is basis, Fulmer's own words via the Knoxville News Sentinel. Not a "weird conspiracy theory" at all. We cleared this up in another thread last week. This most definitely happened.



The reason its still of interest to me is that I want to know how close the program is to being able to honor its storied past without that past being used as an anchor around the neck that continues to pull it backwards.

I'm glad as hell the Kellie hire has worked out, it's a beautiful story. Obviously she's hitting it out of the park so far, espec this year. But it was a gamble (as is every hire) since she had a 15 yr coaching record that was not elite.

All I want to know is if/when there's need for a new coach, the AD will be free to hire the best possible candidate, any gender any background. As long as that is not the case, I believe it will be hard for the program to ever sustain elite status.
There is another quote in this same story:

“I was a bit in the mindset of, ‘We need to find the best coach. Male, female, Lady Vol, not, just whoever is going to be the best at this moment,’” Fulmer said. “I’m telling you, it became very clear to me as the interview process started that we had our choice in the country of coaches to talk to.”
Fulmer said athletic department administrators Angie Boyd-Keck, Donna Thomas and Tara Brooks told him the importance of hiring someone with a connection to the program.

“As we went through a grinding process — and our staff did a grinding search — it became clear that a Lady Vol would be really great,” Fulmer said. “Then Kellie knocked it out of the park.”
That is a convoluted story. We have the direct quote from Fulmer followed by a report of what he said. We don't actually know the order of those statements or how Fulmer intended them to fit together

In the end, I think he was trying to say that Kellie was the best candidate they had (knocking it out of the park) and she had the added bonus of being a lady vol.

But some incessant trollers make it sound like Jeff Walz was in Knoxville making a down payment on a house on Cherokee Blvd when the all powerful "blue hairs" swept in like a SWAT team and proclaimed "not on our watch" and sent him packing back to Louisville.

I would not worry to much about the current or next AD being able to hire "the best candidate" next candidate. It seems like Fulmer thought it did just that.
 
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#54

youcancallmeAl

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#54
There is another quote in this same story:



That is a convoluted story. We have the direct quote from Fulmer followed by a report of what he said. We don't actually know the order of those statements or how Fulmer intended them to fit together

In the end, I think he was trying to say that Kellie was the best candidate they had (knocking it out of the park) and she added bonus of being a lady vol.

But some incessant trollers make it sound like Jeff Walz was in Knoxville making a down payment on a house on Cherokee Blvd when then blue swept in like a SWAT team and proclaimed "not on our watch" and sent him packing back to Louisville.

I would not worry to much about the current or next AD being able to hire "the best candidate" next candidate. It seems like Fulmer thought it did that.
That's a legit interpretation of what he said, and just as valid as anyone else's. I think it's just as plausible as these other theories. There's nothing he said that says: "I was gonna hire Jeff Walz but these three boosters of LV BBall told me I'd be fired if I didn't hire Kellie Harper or a former LV." And yet people are saying that his words add up to exactly that, and moreover, that their interpreation of his remarks is a "FACT." What nonsense. As Dirt_Ball likes to say: Reading for comprehension is hard.
 
#55

glv98

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#55
That's a legit interpretation of what he said, and just as valid as anyone else's. I think it's just as plausible as these other theories. There's nothing he said that says: "I was gonna hire Jeff Walz but these three boosters of LV BBall told me I'd be fired if I didn't hire Kellie Harper or a former LV." And yet people are saying that his words add up to exactly that, and moreover, that their interpreation of his remarks is a "FACT." What nonsense. As Dirt_Ball likes to say: Reading for comprehension is hard.
My last swing at this, and I'm not sure why it's hard. He said what he said. He originally intended an open search but was reminded by the old liners he needed to stay in the LV/female lane.

Possibly he gave in to them bc no "big name" candidate was available, or willing, or affordable. Might he have pushed the issue if someone was available? I suspect in the end KJH was the best available who was willing, She helped PF out by making a nice S16 run, and she fit the bill for old time connection. Of course he would spin it all as the lane he should have been in all along.

It's not the particulars of the hire that matter to me. What's important to me is that gender bias and the insistence on keeping it in the family not continue to be used to restrict future hires. As I said before, I do think/hope that influence is on the wane. But as of 3 years ago, it was a very real factor.
 
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#57

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#57
My last swing at this, and I'm not sure why it's hard. He said what he said. He originally intended an open search but was reminded by the old liners he needed to stay in the LV/female lane.

Possibly he gave in to them bc no "big name" candidate was available, or willing, or affordable. Might he have pushed the issue if someone was available? I suspect in the end KJH was the best available who was willing, She helped PF out by making a nice S16 run, and she fit the bill for old time connection. Of course he would spin it all as the lane he should have been in all along.

It's not the particulars of the hire that matter to me. What's important to me is that gender bias and the insistence on keeping it in the family not continue to be used to restrict future hires. As I said before, I do think/hope that influence is on the wane. But as of 3 years ago, it was a very real factor.
As to how it all happened? You might be 100% correct here. But let's just suppose, for arguments sake they had gone outside the "family" for the hire.

Who could they have gone after had they approved a no limits offer? VanDerveer? Mulkey? McGraw? Stringer? Hatchell? Forget Geno, he would never be accepted. Of those 5 I mentioned, the youngest is 59. Pat was 59 when her dementia diagnosis was announced. Now had Tennessee gone down that route? And any one of them made a similar announcement as Pat's? Would we really want to go down that road again? And so soon?

Were we going to steal Staley from South Carolina? Yeah, sure.

Maybe I am just spitballing, but let's face it. When it came time to replace Holly (And I regret this former Lady Vol who should be as beloved as any Lady Vol is regarded as a coaching failure. It is damn sad, and breaks my heart for her), what this team needed was another Pat.

And having met Pat and speaking to her on several occasions? And having by chance being in the same place at the same time as Kellie? I have come to one conclusion; There was something about Kellie's mannerisms and presence that reminds me of Pat. Hard to explain, but I think she has some unnamable quality that Pat had. As if something Pat said to her was embraced and understood. Forget the willing part. IMO? Kellie Jolly Harper was the best available. Period.

And I hope when she peaks? Pat can rest easier. Kellie gets it.
 
#58

VOLPAT

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#58
And it's goooooooooood.

One thing you mentioned about Pat's legacy got me to thinking. Would any "big-name" coach, short of getting a huge bump in pay, really have wanted to follow Pat? Saban went to Alabama where the Bear was canonized, but at least there a lot of mediocre Bama coaches between him and Bryant. At least we got someone who won championships under Pat, coaches like Pat, reminds the fan base of Pat, and embodies Pat's best qualities with passion, class, and grace. And it seems to be paying off.
So agree. Win and they will come. These girls love these coaches and play hard for them.
 
#59

Memvol44

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#59
1. The transfer portal is now part of recruiting (in fact a really big part). Dye is adding quite a bit to the team and not many true freshman would step in and have her impact. (We can add Keyen Green to that list as well). Marta may be prove to be an elite recruit. Puckett and Miles are playing like blue chip recruits. I think Wynn will prove out as well,.

On paper Kellie has a better class coming next year.
How does she have a better class next year??
 
#61

youcancallmeAl

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#61
He originally intended an open search but was reminded by the old liners he needed to stay in the LV/female lane.
That is your interpretation of what he said.

Possibly he gave in to them..........
Of course he would spin it.......
That's a lot of "woulda, coulda, shoulda" for something you and others are calling fact. Your theory is just that - an interpretation of what he said.

That's all I'm saying. And it's my last swing at it as well.
 
#62

youcancallmeAl

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#62
Darth, are you not happy with what Kellie's has done???
Check out post 1497 of the "2023 recruiting" thread, where he dismisses those who see 15-1 as cause for celebration because one recruit is rumored not to be coming to UT, and no others have committed yet, and labels those who think the program is actually turning around to be delusional. It is a blatant malicious troll post, another bit of evidence in the mounting mountain of malicious troll posts that he should be banned.
 
#64

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#64
I have no idea how the pay bump would have worked. The hiring and retaining of Holly was probably with Pat's blessing. And I cannot criticize that. Pat probably felt she would do well. But it just did not work out. And I am sure that as long as Pat was living, that was not going to change. But Pat passed on June 28, 2016. From that point onward, why it took until March 27, 2019 to fire Holly just befuddles me. Dave Hart did not stick around long enough to handle it, and Currie was not here long enough, thanks to Fulmer taking over. IMO, this move took two years too long, thanks to Fabulous Phil.

Now, had they let Holly go in 2017 or 2018? Who would they have gone after? No telling and it is a mute point. The program's misery went on, Holly got a nice Fulmer buyout, and we now have Kellie instead of maybe getting her a year or two earlier. If not her? Maybe they could have brought home Nikki Caldwell-Fargas. But it is what it is, and history cannot be changed. The Lady Vols are returning to prominence, and I am happy it is happening. Finally.
Actually, it seems like the timing g to get Kellie was perfect if you are a Kellie fan, which I am. If we had looked at her earlier she may not have had the support she did after that last impressive run by Missouri State along with the final complete collapse of Holly. We could have had who knows how many more years of Vol football-like coaching pics. I'm happy with where we are going so far.
 
#65

Darth_Vol

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#65
Darth, are you not happy with what Kellie's has done???
I give her credit for a great start with her best player on the shelf. But I also remember Holly got off to similar starts when she was the coach here, and you also can't ignore the backbone of this team is players she recruited. My biggest concerns are the offense is a trainwreck, hovering around historically bad numbers most of the season, and recruiting. Homers can try to play it down all they want, but the fact that this current high the program is on doesn't seem to be resonating with recruits, at all, is very troubling.

Nice start Kellie, but let's see how you finish. I got crushed here in March when I said the a** whooping to Michigan was devastating to the program on so many levels. Ten months and 0 recruits later...
 
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#66

mlindsay

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#66
I give her credit for a great start with her best player on the shelf. But I also remember Holly got off to similar starts when she was the coach here, and you also can't ignore the backbone of this team is players she recruited. My biggest concerns are the offense is a trainwreck, hovering around historically bad numbers most of the season, and recruiting. Homers can try to play it down all they want, but the fact that this current high the program is on doesn't seem to be resonating with recruits, at all, is very troubling.

Nice start Kellie, but let's see how you finish. I got crushed here in March when I said the a** whooping to Michigan was devastating to the program on so many levels. Ten months and 0 recruits later...
Ten months later and you're still bitching! Maybe if you take a better approach and support the ****ing program and stop throwing your dumb ass subliminal ******** out there, things will change. Enough of the games, just admit that you are a fan of the team you really are a fan of, so we can all really see why you hate Kellie and our program so much!

You keep talking about the core of the team being players Holly recruited. What did Holly do with them? Kam Harris, KK, Rennia, and Rae have all looked light years better under Kellie than Holly! Holly never coached TK and Jordan and both of those players could've gone elsewhere but chose to commit to Kellie so THEY ARE HER RECRUITS. Rae looked lost under Holly, she's looking like one of the Top 10 picks of the draft under Kellie. Brooklyn, Puckett, Tess and Marta has arguably looked better than any freshman or sophmore at UConn and SC not name Paige. SC has 4 Top 25 recruits in her #1 class and none of them have been better than Kellie's recent class. And I can almost bank that none of her 2022 class will be better than Justine.

I thought you'd change and admit you were wrong like many other poster have about Kellie, but I see that will never happen and even if we should win it all you will still find some kind of excuse to discredit Kellie and what she has done and it's pathetic for someone who never watches the games and is always doing some when we play and win but when we lose found time to watch the game and has so much to say.
 
#67

Darth_Vol

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#67
Ten months later and you're still bitching!
*I* was specifically asked if I was happy about what Kellie has done and I answered the question. Call it nitpicking if you want, but I would say NCAA tournament performance is a pretty big one on the checklist. If you don't think it has impacted recruiting I don't know what to tell you. The results (or lack thereof) speak for themselves...
 
#68

youcancallmeAl

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#68
I give her credit for a great start with her best player on the shelf. But I also remember Holly got off to similar starts when she was the coach here, and you also can't ignore the backbone of this team is players she recruited. My biggest concerns are the offense is a trainwreck, hovering around historically bad numbers most of the season, and recruiting. Homers can try to play it down all they want, but the fact that this current high the program is on doesn't seem to be resonating with recruits, at all, is very troubling.

Nice start Kellie, but let's see how you finish. I got crushed here in March when I said the a** whooping to Michigan was devastating to the program on so many levels. Ten months and 0 recruits later...

This post is disingenuous on so many levels. 1) The notion that the Michigan game and the lack of recruiting signings are connected makes no sense whatever. The implication that recruits expected Kellie to handle Michigan after her second season with all of the COVID problems, and now they remember that game of all the games played, somehow, magically, and it sticks out in their minds is ridiculous. 2) The offense is not a train wreck, it is a work in progress. Our best scorer has been out almost all year. Two of the main rotation players are freshmen, and one is a sophomore (pressed into service by Rae's injury). Another scorer is injured and out for the year. The idea that it is historically bad is based on numbers comparisons of completed UT seasons past to one that is half finished and in progress, and is compared to the offenses of one of the two greatest WBB programs in history. He knows all this, but proclaims his proclamations nevertheless. The dishonesty of that comparison is just too much. 3) This year's 15--1 record has not brought recruiting commitments yet, but it is natural for elite recruits to want to wait until they see if this is an aberration or not. This is Kellie's third year. There just hasn't been enough time for anyone to have brought this program into elite territory yet. This poster knows that, and yet he keeps insisting that elite recruits aren't committing because Kellie is the coach. Expectations that this program should be resonating with elite recruits after only 2.5 years (two of them covid years) into a rebbuild after a train-wreck by Holly is unreasonable and irrational. And yet this poster keeps at it ad nauseum. He either has zero patience or is a troll and fan of another team.
 
#69

chuckiepoo

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#69
This post is disingenuous on so many levels. 1) The notion that the Michigan game and the lack of recruiting signings are connected makes no sense whatever. The implication that recruits expected Kellie to handle Michigan after her second season with all of the COVID problems, and now they remember that game of all the games played, somehow, magically, and it sticks out in their minds is ridiculous. 2) The offense is not a train wreck, it is a work in progress. Our best scorer has been out almost all year. Two of the main rotation players are freshmen, and one is a sophomore (pressed into service by Rae's injury). Another scorer is injured and out for the year. The idea that it is historically bad is based on numbers comparisons of completed UT seasons past to one that is half finished and in progress, and is compared to the offenses of one of the two greatest WBB programs in history. He knows all this, but proclaims his proclamations nevertheless. The dishonesty of that comparison is just too much. 3) This year's 15--1 record has not brought recruiting commitments yet, but it is natural for elite recruits to want to wait until they see if this is an aberration or not. This is Kellie's third year. There just hasn't been enough time for anyone to have brought this program into elite territory yet. This poster knows that, and yet he keeps insisting that elite recruits aren't committing because Kellie is the coach. Expectations that this program should be resonating with elite recruits after only 2.5 years (two of them covid years) into a rebbuild after a train-wreck by Holly is unreasonable and irrational. And yet this poster keeps at it ad nauseum. He either has zero patience or is a troll and fan of another team.
YvcmA, I’d consider a personal moratorium of responding to Darth. His whole purpose is to stir indignation amongst the faithful here at our fine site. Back to roundy ball, the following is from the pregame write up:

SIGNIFICANT OFFENSIVE IMPROVEMENT
  • Kellie Harper's squad has shown consistent dominance on defense and in rebounding all season. The team is morphing into a much better offensive unit as well.
  • Tennessee is averaging 78.1 ppg. and shooting 43.8 percent from the field over the past eight games, compared to 65.2 ppg. and 41.1 over the first eight.
  • UT's free-throw percentage is improved from 56.9 to 64.1.
  • The Lady Vols' assists/turnovers numbers were 98/145 the first eight contests and are 149/130 over the past eight.
  • Three-point shooting is up as well, from 25.9 to 30.8.
 
#70

madtownvol

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#70
This post is disingenuous on so many levels. 1) The notion that the Michigan game and the lack of recruiting signings are connected makes no sense whatever. The implication that recruits expected Kellie to handle Michigan after her second season with all of the COVID problems, and now they remember that game of all the games played, somehow, magically, and it sticks out in their minds is ridiculous. 2) The offense is not a train wreck, it is a work in progress. Our best scorer has been out almost all year. Two of the main rotation players are freshmen, and one is a sophomore (pressed into service by Rae's injury). Another scorer is injured and out for the year. The idea that it is historically bad is based on numbers comparisons of completed UT seasons past to one that is half finished and in progress, and is compared to the offenses of one of the two greatest WBB programs in history. He knows all this, but proclaims his proclamations nevertheless. The dishonesty of that comparison is just too much. 3) This year's 15--1 record has not brought recruiting commitments yet, but it is natural for elite recruits to want to wait until they see if this is an aberration or not. This is Kellie's third year. There just hasn't been enough time for anyone to have brought this program into elite territory yet. This poster knows that, and yet he keeps insisting that elite recruits aren't committing because Kellie is the coach. Expectations that this program should be resonating with elite recruits after only 2.5 years (two of them covid years) into a rebbuild after a train-wreck by Holly is unreasonable and irrational. And yet this poster keeps at it ad nauseum. He either has zero patience or is a troll and fan of another team.
On a related matter, aren't Miles, Puckett, and Dye (via the transfer window) recruits that Kellie has brought to the program? Perhaps we are living in a multi-verse where Elvee/Darth's Kellie has to pull geriatric fans from the stands each game to fill out her roster (and where these selected fans go, "eh, I don't know, after that Michigan game....")
 
#71

youcancallmeAl

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#71
On a related matter, aren't Miles, Puckett, and Dye (via the transfer window) recruits that Kellie has brought to the program? Perhaps we are living in a multi-verse where Elvee/Darth's Kellie has to pull geriatric fans from the stands each game to fill out her roster (and where these selected fans go, "eh, I don't know, after that Michigan game....")
Yes, and so is Green. And we've pointed out many times that Kellie had to recruit Key, Rae, and Jordy to stay when their fellow recruits and teammates were leaving after Holly was fired.
 
#72

mlindsay

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#72
*I* was specifically asked if I was happy about what Kellie has done and I answered the question. Call it nitpicking if you want, but I would say NCAA tournament performance is a pretty big one on the checklist. If you don't think it has impacted recruiting I don't know what to tell you. The results (or lack thereof) speak for themselves...
Her losing in the tournament to Michigan cannot make up all the stuff Holly tolerated during her tenure that she probably shouldn’t have! You can’t keep blaiming her and what she has done but giving the staff before her a pass! Recruiting has fallen because one coach got back to back Top 5 classes (1 was the #1 class) and nothing to show for it as only 3 from those classes finished (or will finish) as Lady Vols!
I’d love to know why the person responsible for those classes are no longer coaching basketball! Ever wondered if that could also be why Kellie can’t get the recruits she’s after because promises were made during Holly’s tenure that she wasn’t able to keep and now Kellie is suffering because of it and the other antics allowed?

You ever stopped to think what other players who have transfered may be saying to their friends or future recruits about the program and not just Evina and they get on this board and think the program hasn’t changed because of some of the **** you post?

You can view it as excuses but it freaking happens whether you want to believe it or not!

That’s 5 players from 5 different geographical areas that could be keeping talent away from us by telling recruits to stay away, also 5 AAU programs and High School coaches that could be doing the same.
 
#75

Darth_Vol

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#75
Her losing in the tournament to Michigan cannot make up all the stuff Holly tolerated during her tenure that she probably shouldn’t have! You can’t keep blaiming her and what she has done but giving the staff before her a pass! Recruiting has fallen because one coach got back to back Top 5 classes (1 was the #1 class) and nothing to show for it as only 3 from those classes finished (or will finish) as Lady Vols!
I’d love to know why the person responsible for those classes are no longer coaching basketball! Ever wondered if that could also be why Kellie can’t get the recruits she’s after because promises were made during Holly’s tenure that she wasn’t able to keep and now Kellie is suffering because of it and the other antics allowed?

You ever stopped to think what other players who have transfered may be saying to their friends or future recruits about the program and not just Evina and they get on this board and think the program hasn’t changed because of some of the **** you post?

You can view it as excuses but it freaking happens whether you want to believe it or not!

That’s 5 players from 5 different geographical areas that could be keeping talent away from us by telling recruits to stay away, also 5 AAU programs and High School coaches that could be doing the same.
Is that what's happening Mikey? Yesterday I heard it was because other coaches are paying the players. I can't keep up with the excuses du jour...
 

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