serious question

#77

GameTime

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#77
Darth I have to agree with you...

I do this reluctantly, but Harper, so far, has not been what I hoped she would be...A team, with this many constant turnovers, is most likely not being coached properly.

This problem should have been corrected a long time ago with sprint suicides, or a lot of stair running for the offending players, and if necessary, the total team. These stupid turnovers are ridiculous.

And Horston has to stop charging into the defensive player, take the damn pull up shot.
 
#78

teacherdean

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#78
I think the previous staff paid too much attention to basketball ability and not enough attention to who the people were that they were bringing into the program. Does that answer your question?
Looking at character and how a player fits into what you want to accomplish Is a key to having a successful program. Every five star does not fit into every program. Top schools will sometimes recruit a 4 or 3 star player because they have the potential to accomplish An objective. I can’t read Holly’s mind but it seems she was more interested In stars rather then determining how the pieces would all fit together. I understand what KJH is trying to accomplish from watching her at Mo. State, the problem is, does she have the horses to get it done? We have to remember, she did not recruit these players. Judging from her Mo. State program she is more interested in speed and endurance and running fresh legs in and out, in a effort to wear the competition down. That might take her two to three, or more, recruiting classes to get it done. It took her 4 years at Mo. State.
 
#79

Nute Gunray

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#79
Looking at character and how a player fits into what you want to accomplish Is a key to having a successful program. Every five star does not fit into every program. Top schools will sometimes recruit a 4 or 3 star player because they have the potential to accomplish An objective. I can’t read Holly’s mind but it seems she was more interested In stars rather then determining how the pieces would all fit together. I understand what KJH is trying to accomplish from watching her at Mo. State, the problem is, does she have the horses to get it done? We have to remember, she did not recruit these players. Judging from her Mo. State program she is more interested in speed and endurance and running fresh legs in and out, in a effort to wear the competition down. That might take her two to three, or more, recruiting classes to get it done. It took her 4 years at Mo. State.
Five star analysis, teacherdean. The only thing I would add is; I believe Coach Kellie should cast down her bucket where she is. In other words, she should develop a game plan to maximize the skills of the players that she has now.
 
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#80

kell7517

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#80
I check in on every thread that has to do with the lady vols
some more than others, but all of them nonetheless

Pardon my Yawning
No disrespect coach. And it’s not just to you. Several on here do it and it’s mind boggling to see someone complain about a thread when they could’ve easily just not read it or read it and move on without posting about how they are tired of seeing this or that.
 
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#81

DeerPark12

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#81
Looking at character and how a player fits into what you want to accomplish Is a key to having a successful program. Every five star does not fit into every program. Top schools will sometimes recruit a 4 or 3 star player because they have the potential to accomplish An objective. I can’t read Holly’s mind but it seems she was more interested In stars rather then determining how the pieces would all fit together. I understand what KJH is trying to accomplish from watching her at Mo. State, the problem is, does she have the horses to get it done? We have to remember, she did not recruit these players. Judging from her Mo. State program she is more interested in speed and endurance and running fresh legs in and out, in a effort to wear the competition down. That might take her two to three, or more, recruiting classes to get it done. It took her 4 years at Mo. State.
I think a more valid question than the original one would be Where would this team be if Zaay Green was on the court? Many observers close to the program believed that she was going to be the team's best player this year. Does the team average 17 turnovers a game if she's in the backcourt?

If Tennessee turns the ball over 11 times against Texas instead of 14, then they probably win. If they turn it over 18 times against Kentucky instead of 21, they probably win that one. So I think you could argue that if she's playing then UT probably has 5-10% fewer turnovers combined with her scoring 6-7 points more than the players combining to take her minutes, then Tennessee is 13-1 and probably in the top 10. How different is the board's opinion of Harper then?

She lost her best player and they're still in good shape so far. Y'all are welcome to have your own opinions, but saying you're disappointed in what you've seen or trying to argue that the play isn't obviously better than the last two years is absolutely baffling to me. I have no idea if Harper will work out long term, but they are significantly more consistent and competitive than I've seen the last two seasons.
 
#82

T_Vol376

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#82
Either we recruited numerous highly ranked "bad apples" in a very short period of time, or the atmosphere around the team was such that it allowed problems to continue to the point of those players leaving. Either way, the HC/organization who recruited them bares some responsibility.
Okay, so your issue is that @DeerPark12 won’t rake Holly over the coals? DP12 did say it was on Holly if they didn’t respect her. But I can tell you that some of the other things DP12 said are true as well and if you can’t accept that, oh well.
 
#85

DeerPark12

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#85
No one is denying Zaay was a key loss, but as I said before my favorite development of this season by far is how she has suddenly morphed into a first team All-American since her injury...
I'm not doing that, others that watched the team's offseason said that, but my analysis isn't based on her playing at that level. She averaged 9.6 ppg last year (10.3 in SEC games). An offseason of development probably puts her at around 12 ppg this year. Massengale (6.5 ppg) and Rennie (2.8 ppg) are absorbing most of those minutes. So it's not unreasonable to expect that she would be, at a minimum, a net gain of 6-7 points per game. Tennessee lost to Texas by six and Kentucky by four. You do the math.
 
#86

Darth_Vol

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#86
I'm not doing that, others that watched the team's offseason said that, but my analysis isn't based on her playing at that level. She averaged 9.6 ppg last year (10.3 in SEC games). An offseason of development probably puts her at around 12 ppg this year. Massengale (6.5 ppg) and Rennie (2.8 ppg) are absorbing most of those minutes. So it's not unreasonable to expect that she would be, at a minimum, a net gain of 6-7 points per game. Tennessee lost to Texas by six and Kentucky by four. You do the math.
That's great if we're playing fantasy basketball, but in reality you can't put individual statistics in a vacuum when it comes to team sports. To call her the best player on the team (which you clearly wrote) is a stretch, as it is to assume they would necessarily have won those two games.

But either way, injuries are part of the game. Notre Dame was a shell of a team when the Lady Vols pummeled them. Stanford was missing players when they pummeled the Lady Vols. We can only judge Kellie by the talent she has available. If you think they aren't talented enough to beat the likes of Texas or Kentucky, then you can be pleased with the moral victories. Fans who do think they have the talent (like myself), have the right to be disappointed with the losses. Not sure why that is baffling...
 
#87

Nute Gunray

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#87
I think a more valid question than the original one would be Where would this team be if Zaay Green was on the court? Many observers close to the program believed that she was going to be the team's best player this year. Does the team average 17 turnovers a game if she's in the backcourt?

If Tennessee turns the ball over 11 times against Texas instead of 14, then they probably win. If they turn it over 18 times against Kentucky instead of 21, they probably win that one. So I think you could argue that if she's playing then UT probably has 5-10% fewer turnovers combined with her scoring 6-7 points more than the players combining to take her minutes, then Tennessee is 13-1 and probably in the top 10. How different is the board's opinion of Harper then?

She lost her best player and they're still in good shape so far. Y'all are welcome to have your own opinions, but saying you're disappointed in what you've seen or trying to argue that the play isn't obviously better than the last two years is absolutely baffling to me. I have no idea if Harper will work out long term, but they are significantly more consistent and competitive than I've seen the last two seasons.
I am not sure Coach Kellie lost her best player in Zaay Green, teacherdean. I believe certainly she lost a valuable player.
 
#88

Chippo

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#88
But see, that’s where I take issue. They weren’t “Pats girls.“ Holly was there on the road recruiting them, and was responsible for that entire roster. Acting like there was some sort of separation in players between the two eras is not really accurate. And as anyone that was around the program at the time would tell you, Holly was doing the majority of the heavy lifting as Pat dealt with some other health issues that weren’t necessarily made public. The difference was Pat was there on game day with the famous stare and everything that came with it. The real difference between the two was the one thing that Holly couldn’t duplicate because it had been her job for decades to be the counter to. She was the good cop, and was never able to change that. But it was the difference in the program winning championships and the program failing. And she failed, ultimately.
Okay, learned something I didn't know.
 
#89

madtownvol

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#89
That's great if we're playing fantasy basketball, but in reality you can't put individual statistics in a vacuum when it comes to team sports. To call her the best player on the team (which you clearly wrote) is a stretch, as it is to assume they would necessarily have won those two games.

But either way, injuries are part of the game. Notre Dame was a shell of a team when the Lady Vols pummeled them. Stanford was missing players when they pummeled the Lady Vols. We can only judge Kellie by the talent she has available. If you think they aren't talented enough to beat the likes of Texas or Kentucky, then you can be pleased with the moral victories. Fans who do think they have the talent (like myself), have the right to be disappointed with the losses. Not sure why that is baffling...
100% we can't play fantasy ball by projecting that Zaay, who had been a high impact player as a Freshman and had a great off season, would have been have made this team much better BUT we can confidently and definitively assert that the LVs would be 13-1 with a different coach. Heck, we can even project how the Stanford game would have played out for a more competitive outcome because you, uh, you say so.

I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt but that was my mistake.
 
#90

madtownvol

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#90
I'm not doing that, others that watched the team's offseason said that, but my analysis isn't based on her playing at that level. She averaged 9.6 ppg last year (10.3 in SEC games). An offseason of development probably puts her at around 12 ppg this year. Massengale (6.5 ppg) and Rennie (2.8 ppg) are absorbing most of those minutes. So it's not unreasonable to expect that she would be, at a minimum, a net gain of 6-7 points per game. Tennessee lost to Texas by six and Kentucky by four. You do the math.
Trying to reason with this poster is futile. He just invokes some other unrelated issue or moves the proverbial goal posts. Anything to never be wrong in his negavolism.
 
#94

Raebo

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#94
I guess the answer is, we should fire Fulmer for hiring Kelly instead of Geno. Fire Kelly now and hire Geno for 6 or 7 million a year. I am sure that will go over well.
I think some people have their feelings hurt because Fulmer hired someone that did not meet their criteria and will take every opportunity they can to criticize Coach Kelly to try to show how smart they are. Some would still be complaining if we were 13-1 now. Heck, they would find something to criticize if we were 14-0.
Myself, I think Kelly is doing okay so far, not doing great, and unless she really messes things up, I think it is fair to give her 3 full years before making a judgement on if she is a good fit for UT.
I have a challenge for everyone and for one game ony. If we win our next game, come into the forums and post positive comments about the game/coach and NO negative comments. If we lose, those that normally post just positI’ve comments will come in and just post negative comments. Fair enough? Can you do it? I bet not.
Geez.
 
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#95

Volfan2012

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#95
Two of the starters are freshmen and one is a sophomore. One seems to be limited by a bad knee then you have Davis. We have another sophomore that comes off the bench and KK who is still trying to be a become a consistent player. After that were really limited in talent and ability to play in the SEC. We'll win the games where we get consistent play out of the two freshmen as they are players we need to score efficiently. Jordan was 3 for 14 and five turnovers in this game so you see why anyone would think Green would've been an option that would put us over the top. Not because she is the greatest player ever more because of having a year of experience and a summer to get better. She was showing a much improved game until the injury. The injury hurt the team that is an obvious conclusion.
 
#96

NewDog

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#96
I guess the answer is, we should fire Fulmer for hiring Kelly instead of Geno. Fire Kelly now and hire Geno for 6 or 7 million a year. I am sure that will go over well.
I think some people have their feelings hurt because Fulmer hired someone that did not meet their criteria and will take every opportunity they can to criticize Coach Kelly to try to show how smart they are. Some would still be complaining if we were 13-1 now. Heck, they would find something to criticize if we were 14-0.
Myself, I think Kelly is doing okay so far, not doing great, and unless she really messes things up, I think it is fair to give her 3 full years before making a judgement on if she is a good fit for UT.
I have a challenge for everyone and for one game ony. If we win our next game, come into the forums and post positive comments about the game/coach and NO negative comments. If we lose, those that normally post just positI’ve comments will come in and just post negative comments. Fair enough? Can you do it? I bet not.
Geez.
It's not just here, it's every fan message board. Your team wins and there are a segment of fans that look for what went wrong and will complain about it.

I like to be positive at all times about my team. I don't see the point in nit picking. But others will always find fault and will express it. To each their own.
 
#97

NewDog

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#97
Two of the starters are freshmen and one is a sophomore. One seems to be limited by a bad knee then you have Davis. We have another sophomore that comes off the bench and KK who is still trying to be a become a consistent player. After that were really limited in talent and ability to play in the SEC. We'll win the games where we get consistent play out of the two freshmen as they are players we need to score efficiently. Jordan was 3 for 14 and five turnovers in this game so you see why anyone would think Green would've been an option that would put us over the top. Not because she is the greatest player ever more because of having a year of experience and a summer to get better. She was showing a much improved game until the injury. The injury hurt the team that is an obvious conclusion.
You hit the nail on the head with this post.

It's a young team with a first year coach. It will take time to get the consistency you need to beat some of these SEC teams.
 
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#98

superfly

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#98
Wow...this is a very unfair question. Kelly needs at least two years for anyone to gain any insights as to how her tenure has gone or will go. I am shocked at the fans across the board that will try to make an assessment from such a small data base. She is coaching Holly's players (now hers, but by default) and trying to implement her style of play. Judge her when she gets her players into her system...then it will be a fair assessment. The record is one thing...improvement throughout is something totally different. In a totally different sport..but it may relate...I hate Clemson but when Danny Ford was the coach they asked a player why they played so hard...the player responded.."It is easier to play hard and leave everything on the field, than it is to face coach Ford after a loss." Maybe Holly was easy to lose for...maybe Kelly won't be...who knows.
 
#99
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#99
It's not just here, it's every fan message board. Your team wins and there are a segment of fans that look for what went wrong and will complain about it.

I like to be positive at all times about my team. I don't see the point in nit picking. But others will always find fault and will express it. To each their own.

What team is that?
 

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