SEC refs

[BearBryant]

It’s amazing the NCAA doesn’t hire the refs for games across the country. We now find out the line judge for the Miss game played football for Alabama. Most likely the time in the 90’s when Tennessee dominated Alabama. Kiffin was in his ear all night long and this guy was manipulated. The SEC is corrupt and we take the short end of the stick every time. The refs should be from other parts of the country Hired by the NCAA. Don’t tell me it’s because of expense. The leagues across the country are loaded.

Having an incompetent organization like the NCAA to hire refs, would be an absolute disaster. Parallel it to the way we are being governed. The Federal Gov't is an absolute total failure. We are allowing them to destroy our country. Our country was founded on the freedoms and liberties that our God(the true God that created everything) gave to all of us. Our gov't was set-up to allow the states to be the power not some centralized evil bureaucracy.

Each conference is equivalent to our states and the NCAA is the federal gov't. Each conference should be responsible for their refs. They need to make them more accountable for atrocious calls they make. The two calls that are most egregious 1)The strip, scoop, and score and 2)the 4th and 24 spot. There should be a public announcement by the SEC to explain both. And if either was incorrect they should admit the refs made a mistake.

The strip, fumble, score is baffling how they called that back. The referees ran all the way to the endzone and then somehow came up with this ridiculous forward progress crap. This should be explained in detail how this happened, and how they the refs made that call.

The 4th and 24 call--the sideline refs were in no position to make an accurate spot of the ball. They appear to mark it close to where Warren's knee went down instead of where the ball was at that point. The yellow line was not the line to make for the First Down. The 40 yard line strip was where the sticks were. And it appears it was about the middle of that stripe. Unfortunately there was no great camera angle to show exactly where the ball was when Warren's knee went down. So I don't think the replay crew was wrong in not reversing the call. But the SEC should explain why the refs were NOT in position to make the correct spot. Because there is no doubt the spot was incorrect!

Before any of you think I'm a Bama fan,--Don't. I've been a Tennessee Vol fan all my life. I'm from McConnell, TN which is near Martin, TN. My Great Grandfather's cousin was Graham Vowell the first All-American at Tennessee. So I would love to see Tennessee destroy Bama's season. The last time Tennessee beat Alabama I was at the game. My daughter was a student and she graduated from UT.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I don’t know, those hillbillies in Alabama will literally kill for their team.

Careful, you might end up being called an alarmist.

 

[golfballs]

I know a former SEC ref who is a HUGE Bama fan. Lives in Birmingham. He retired a while back and I don’t recall any controversial calls he was involved in, but I never thought it was a good look to have such an overt fan calling games. It’s unavoidable to an extent because they have to pay for their own travel so you’re not going to get refs flying in from different parts of the country. But the league can help erase the thought by at least having more transparency and accountability when it comes to officiating. This nonsense of “handling it internally” and then seeing these refs continue to make bad calls only raises suspicions that the league is corrupt

 

[Coddlecreek1]

So let me get this straight, you think someone is going to risk their job because of an allegiance to Alabama and the fact that Kiffin once coached for Alabama and we beat him back in the 90's. Come on, give me a break. Utterly ridiculous. Is there a problem with officiating, of course, but it's not because of homers.

Ask Rick Barnes about that LSU game a coiuple years ago in Baton Rouge

 

[Other_Guy]

I don’t know, those hillbillies in Alabama will literally kill for their team.

It's a recurring thing with them now. When someone points out tenn threw trash Saturday I say, "you have a better chance of being shot watching a Bama game than being hit by trash at a Vol game."

 

[WoodsmanVol]

It's a recurring things with them now. When someone points out tenn threw trash Saturday I say, "you have a better chance of being shot watching a Bama game than being hit by trash at a Vol game."

I'm inclined to believe you. However, the truth isn't welcome these days. We live in the age of idiots, and folks who prefer a lie rather than the truth

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

This thread is 2 years old. I think it's aged pretty well

How to fix officiating

 

[Lurker]

Nothing will change until the Conference moves the conference from Birmingham to a major city. Bama likes things just like they are. It's all sports in the SEC not just football. To many homers calling games across sports and 0 accountability from the SEC Office. Get the HQ out of Gump land and move it to a major city there are plenty across the SouthEast. Orlando makes the most sense to me. Until that happens nothing changes and the integrity of the league is at risk.

Good grief, everything in life isn't corrupt or a conspiracy and this "solution" to officiating screw-ups makes absolutely no sense, except to people who hate all things Crimson Tide. Birmingham is as much a "major city" located within the SEC region as is Orlando, Florida. Florida, of course has the Gators, a school also hated by many in the SEC. From Tennessee's point of view there is absolutely no difference. And, how would that move make officiating better? How long would it take for a pro-Gator bias to be complained about? Don't you think Florida has as many "homers" as Alabama? Move to Atlanta? Oh yea, the Dogs. There is no place free from this groundless complaint that is within the conference area.

To follow this line of thought, maybe the SEC should move its HQ to NYC or Chicago or LA or some other truly "major city" outside of the conference area to satisfy the conspiracy crowd (as if that would ever be possible).

Or, maybe, the SEC should put more of its money into developing more professional officiating units rather than using part-timers. Increasing training and accountability would move the needle, but, in my view, mistakes are going to be made, even by the best officials because they are humans, not because they are corrupt. Officials with a factually based history of incompetence should be disciplined and better trained, but you can never make officiating perfect. Truly corrupt officials obviously should not officiate, but tell me how you prove that standard short of a confession?

 

[savannahfan]

I think refs at all levels have always made mistakes in the past. Instant replay has provided a method to try to correct the bad decisions. However, as the replay system has matured, officials have grown more reluctant to correct those bad calls. One wonders why. Are there so many they don't want to admit they have some many? Does it provide an avenue for the SEC and other conferences to sway the outcome so that the perceived better teams will make it to the playoffs? Are the Conferences so money happy that they want to make more money for them and their teams? Are the refs on the take or paid by the Conferences for them to play favorites? Deep down, I don't think so, but each week so many bad calls are made that inquiring minds wonder.

I think the calls not made have a bigger impact. Non calls like holding on end runs. Holding on d backs, the type of holding leaving the lof.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Which official is this?

Steve Shaw’s brother, Brad Shaw.

 

[Sarms58]

I think because the league office is in Alabama, and guys like Marc Curles (and many of the league's refs) live in Birmingham, there is pressure on them to call games certain ways. As someone else here put it- when you live around Bama fans, when you go to church with them, and school, and see them all day every day in the grocery store; when some are your friends, and some are your family- you build a bias and there is no way around it.

Get the offices TF out of Birmingham, change the leadership, and things improve for all of us.

So I guess the office needs to be outside the southeast.

 

[HooahVol]

I am amazed with all the technology in the world they can not put a microchip in the football to determine forward progression. Seriously, would it even be that hard to do? Instead of some out of shape line judge running over from 40 yards away it could be very precise.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Steve Shaw’s brother, Brad Shaw.

How long has Brad been on Curles crew? And Steve actually evaluated and assigned that crew when he was in charge?

 

[Lawrence Wright]

How long has Brad been on Curles crew? And Steve actually evaluated and assigned that crew when he was in charge?

I was joking friend.

 

[Sarms58]

I encourage anyone on here who's never reffed to go get certified and do so. I reffed middle and high school soccer for five years. Most are just trying to do their job well.

However...........

You understand the concept of a 50/50 call, right? Holding that literally happens on every play. Line to gain situations where the ball may or may not be an inch short. Did the fingers brush the facemask or grab it?

Now you tell me. I'm looking at a 50/50 and I MUST call something. You are a human. You have bias. You're saying your bias in no way affects the call? Impossible.

I would try my best to weigh it 50 50 on my calls for the whole game. But.....if I was calling for my home town team, probably didn't work out that way. I'm not saying I intentionally called anything wrong, just that more of the close ones went our way.

Yes, Birmingham bias is a thing.

I reffed soccer for about 5 years as well. No issues with the younger kids in rec ball but called a few high school games and it was just not for me. First, I’m not fast enough to keep up with that age group and be in good position to make calls - and refs being out of position is one of my pet peeves. And second. I’m overly analytical - not to the level of Monk, but close - and that’s not good when you have to make quick, decisive calls. And third, I found myself bending over backwards to not appear a homer to the point that I tended to make all the close calls for the visitors - so much for home cooking.

More folks should take up a whistle and volunteer - it’s helps you better appreciate the job of officiating. That doesn’t mean I don't think calls are missed - that happens in every game of every sport. But I do have a little empathy for the guys making the calls. But we do need performance reviews that actually weed out those with a higher rate of bad calls.

 

[VolunteerNut]

The crew we had was horrible.... horrible

 

[ankh83]

I found these articles by Roy Hines and Griffin Floyd to be worthy of posting on this subject matter. Something needs to be done to protect the game for the next generation.

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

The problem is there is almost zero accountability to the point where it appears the SEC is trying to cover up egregious calls.

Unfortunately, IF there is accountability for bad calls ... we are not aware of it ... which leads us to the conclusion that there is a 'covert cover up' in place. The fact that tapes are being sent in ... means that there is some kind of system of review. Again, unfortunately, it is not transparent to fans what the outcome of the review is. There are lots of opportunity for improvement here, but I do not see a realistic path forward to a better place. No way to make it into a positive, constructive environment.

This leads to the it was a "homer call" thought. Do I believe that there has been instances of homer calls, absolutely. Do I believe there have been times the SEC has protected teams in the NC hunt, without question.

Consciously or unconsciously, all striped shirts have bias. We hope that it does not factor into the game, but ... it always does. Sometimes it is not apparent, sometimes it is ... LSU-TN basketball game is one example.
The thing I worry about is the unconscious aspect ...
We can affect the mind of a football player, by simply saying, "Don't fumble." That creates a 'negative space' that tends to create the opposite effect of what you intended with words. ['Hold on/Secure the football' creates a better unconscious thought.]
Maybe it is just me, but the 'higher ranked' teams do seem to get more 'favorable' calls. It would be very easy to create an unconscious bias in referees by reminding them, "Make the lower ranked team earn the win." [That is just an example. But that would accidentally create a unconscious negative bias. Any referee who wants to share statistics that demonstrate that a bias in not present.... Feel free to step forward with the stats. ....????]
There is a reason that coaches talk at and to the referees, they are intentional and covertly trying to influence the calls ... sometimes it works, at other times is works negatively. If you learn to read refs, you can learn 'how' to talk to them to get your desired results. [Note: Sometimes that means keeping your mouth shut, because opening your mouth to some of them... results in you and your team getting the short end of the stick. I learned that rather quickly. There was one ref. Silence was golden. We always silently hoped someone, anyone on the other team would say something to him. :^)))))) ]

Both are the fault of the SEC and the lack of disciplinary action taken against inept officials.

That is one thought. I get it. However, it does not follow, that because it is not publicly announced ... that there is no action being taken. Yes, I am being optimistic. While I do not have tangible proof, I think there is evidence referentially. Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? [Looking for someone to step up and tangibly confirm I am correct.]

 

[hog88]

A non-SEC state (Charlotte, DC, etc.) or a big, more neutral southern city (like someone said, Orlando would be good, or Tampa; definitely less UF influence there than Bama influence in Birmingham).

Nashville would be the best option IMO. Nobody GAS about Vandy and most people living in Nashville are not from Nashville these days.

 

[hog88]

I encourage anyone on here who's never reffed to go get certified and do so. I reffed middle and high school soccer for five years. Most are just trying to do their job well.

However...........

You understand the concept of a 50/50 call, right? Holding that literally happens on every play. Line to gain situations where the ball may or may not be an inch short. Did the fingers brush the facemask or grab it?

Now you tell me. I'm looking at a 50/50 and I MUST call something. You are a human. You have bias. You're saying your bias in no way affects the call? Impossible.

I would try my best to weigh it 50 50 on my calls for the whole game. But.....if I was calling for my home town team, probably didn't work out that way. I'm not saying I intentionally called anything wrong, just that more of the close ones went our way.

Yes, Birmingham bias is a thing.

I did umpire little league through legion ball and reffed sandlot through middle school football. In football I learned the best practice is to call nothing on 50/50, only throw that flag when there is zero doubt. Better to let something slide than be flag happy.

 

[rjd970]

Officiating crew for Tennessee / Ole Miss game:

Referee – Marc Curles – Georgia Tech

Umpire – Brent Sowell – Alabama – played DT 1982-1985 on Bryant's last team

Linesman – Stephen Ray – Texas A&M alum

Line Judge – Chris Conway – Auburn alum, works in Montgomery

Back Judge – Matt Hollifield – Carson Newman

Field Judge – Wes Booker – Not sure

Side Judge – Eduardo Balbis – University of Florida

Center Judge - Chris Garner – The Ohio State University

A lot of alumnus on there from schools/fans that don't particularly like Tennessee.

 

[Commish14]

I encourage anyone on here who's never reffed to go get certified and do so. I reffed middle and high school soccer for five years. Most are just trying to do their job well.

However...........

You understand the concept of a 50/50 call, right? Holding that literally happens on every play. Line to gain situations where the ball may or may not be an inch short. Did the fingers brush the facemask or grab it?

Now you tell me. I'm looking at a 50/50 and I MUST call something. You are a human. You have bias. You're saying your bias in no way affects the call? Impossible.

I would try my best to weigh it 50 50 on my calls for the whole game. But.....if I was calling for my home town team, probably didn't work out that way. I'm not saying I intentionally called anything wrong, just that more of the close ones went our way.

Yes, Birmingham bias is a thing.

Very well Put. Good Post !!!!

 

[jeff1vol]

So let me get this straight, you think someone is going to risk their job because of an allegiance to Alabama and the fact that Kiffin once coached for Alabama and we beat him back in the 90's. Come on, give me a break. Utterly ridiculous. Is there a problem with officiating, of course, but it's not because of homers.

Must be nice living in wonderland. OF COURSE they'd do it! They aren't risking ANYTHING, obviously. When was the last SEC ref fired or even suspended for incompetence?? BTW... did you see what that Gump Pruitt did to our program? Do you think he REALLY gave a ****? Cmon, man. Let me know the next time Bama hires a UT alum to run their football program.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Officiating crew for Tennessee / Ole Miss game:

Referee – Marc Curles – Georgia Tech

Umpire – Brent Sowell – Alabama – played DT 1982-1985 on Bryant's last team

Linesman – Stephen Ray – Texas A&M alum

Line Judge – Chris Conway – Auburn alum, works in Montgomery

Back Judge – Matt Hollifield – Carson Newman

Field Judge – Wes Booker – Not sure

Side Judge – Eduardo Balbis – University of Florida

Center Judge - Chris Garner – The Ohio State University

A lot of alumnus on there from schools/fans that don't particularly like Tennessee.

Or…there’s a bunch of alums from schools that many Tennessee fans don’t like.

 

[rjd970]

Or…there’s a bunch of alums from schools that many Tennessee fans don’t like.

Funny - I don't see any Tennessee alum on the list. What's your point?