Scott, Hendrix and Helm gone (officially per Butch)

#401
#401
sjt18 said:
Thanks for that clarification. I would just request a little more respect for us that require more than a "feeling" and are troubled by some of the deficiencies and short comings we see.

I've been here a long time. I've been more or less on your side of the fence. You can call me jaded if you like but cliches and promises no longer satisfy me. We've heard them from each coach going all the way back to the point where many first realized anything was wrong... 2005. The problems actually extend all the way back to 2000. Team discipline fell off. Subpar coaching was accepted by CPF because of loyalty. Recruiting began to fall off. The rest of the SEC began to bring in much better coaches.... then it showed up on the field in 2005.

Jones HAS dealt with many of the structural and fundamental issues within the program. But there are others still out there and some of them big enough to de-rail the whole rebuilding effort.

I'm going to give you a number inside the number to illustrate it. Fulmer's DL and specifically DT recruiting had fallen to critical levels. In truth, he left Kiffin only one SEC quality DT. His OL recruiting wasn't much better.

Jones signed 4 DE's and no DT's in 2013. Two of those DE's including the only 4* are gone. I think I read that Vickers may have been moved inside? In '14, Jones signed 3 guys listed as DE's- all 4* players. Two of them are gone. That's 4 of the 7 DE's signed in the last two years... that's too much attrition to build quality depth. They signed 3 guys listed as DT's. Sawyer appears to be on his way out if reports bear true (and all of the bad rumors lately seem to be coming true). Robertson flipped to the OL. Owen Williams a JUCO made a nice contribution. That's only 3 DT commits in two years... and only one will ever contribute at DT. That's not enough to build quality depth.

The OL problems are very well documented. Attrition hasn't been a problem yet but performance has. Hopefully another year of development coupled with the experience that returns will resolve that... but I do not see anything they've done on the OL that inspires faith that we're going to see a big or sudden turn around.

These kinds of problems were the kind that sunk Fulmer and the program to start with... It has to improve or your feeling is going to be massively disappointed.


If you want to go off of a positive "feeling" then that's fine for you. Just don't ask everyone else to close their eyes.
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Well you need to get off the cliff. TN is in the best position it has been in around10 years. Enjoy it and stop crying about a couple freshmen.
 
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#402
#402
Kurtastrophe said:
If we land Phillips, his ranking is similar to Hendrix's. Most people are giddy as school girls over the DTs. And for good reason.
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The DT commits are exceptional... but it won't mean a thing until they actually contribute on the field.

Carr, Henderson, Hendrix, and Sawyer had us feeling pretty good when they signed too.
 
#403
#403
I HATE to see these guys leave. Wish they would have stayed. Especially Hendrix and Helm. Massive Potential. They were all needed, even if just for depth.

But, let's be honest about a couple of things.

1) This doesn't mean that we are "in trouble" or that things are going in "the wrong direction." Attrition happens. Always has, especially when there are other good players on the roster. Where did the the old UT phrase "Those who stay, will play," come from if not from players leaving?

2) The coaching staff is not the reason these players are leaving. The freshman-only stats below, however, are at least a part of the reason.

-----------------Car---Yds---Avg--TD-\-Rec--Yds--Avg--TD
Jalen Hurd-----174--777---4.5---3-----33--217--6.6---2
Derrell Scott----11---40----3.6---0-----0-----0-----0---0

---------------Rec---Yds----Avg--TD
Ethan Wolf----21---203----9.7---0
Alex Ellis-------6---115---19.2---1
Daniel Helm----6----37----6.2---0

--------------------Solo--Ast--Tot---TFL---Scks--QbH--FRcv
Derek Barnett-----45----24--69---20.5---10-----7-----1
Dimarya Mixon-----4----------4-------------------1
Dewayne Hendrix--1-----1----2
Michael Sawyers---1-----1----2
Jalen Hurd----------1----------1
 
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#404
#404
sjt18 said:
The DT commits are exceptional... but it won't mean a thing until they actually contribute on the field.

Carr, Henderson, Hendrix, and Sawyer had us feeling pretty good when they signed too.
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I'm willing to make a significant wager that Kahlil will not be a bust.
 
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#405
#405
FLVOL_79 said:
And everything else you write is invalidated. This isnt normal years on a normal team stacked with depth. Tee Martin? Why would he have to contribute as a freshman? He was a backup to someone named Peyton Manning. Heard of him? There was no reason the team would have to rely on him. Sims, another one who DIDNT have to contribute his freshman year. Dumb reasoning is dumb.

Earlier in the year the OC said they would be relying on the incoming freshman during the next few years to help build the team back up to prominence. A TE buried in the depth chart behind another freshman, a RB who couldnt get his stripe removed until the season was almost over, and a defensive lineman who saw some playing time with little production.. It seems like a lot of other freshman were able to pull up their bootstraps and play ball..not going to lose sleep over these guys.

GRA392.pvw.jpg
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it's not invalidated. We didn't need all 32 newcomers to contribute THIS season and Scott was hurt for probably 60% of the seaaon. When did you expect him to play? Juat because 21 FR got significant time doesn't mean everyone should've or needed to. There was rumblings that Scott would potentially RS in the beginning anywas so it doesn't sound like Butch and Co were planning on him contributing much THIS season. It's hard for him to beat out Pickett and others if he's not practicing due to injury.
 
#406
#406
Evet Vols said:
Well you need to get off the cliff. TN is in the best position it has been in around10 years. Enjoy it and stop crying about a couple freshmen.
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I'm not on a cliff. I'm not crying. I am pointing to facts that you would rather avoid due to being emotionally vested in a "feeling" that things are Jim Dandy and certain to get better.

Being in the best position they've been in for 10 years is sort of like claiming that being a little better than Dooley makes a coach successful. But ftr, UT was in better shape roster wise from 2004 to 2007.
 
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#407
#407
TBtheGBwiththeTD said:
All 3 guys would've played as soon as next year. Not sure what this means. Don't like it as I liked all 3 but best of luck to them.
I know butch will just replace them with talent but the big number of transfers is disconcerting to me at least.
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I agree. When a few 4 star players begin to leave looks like we have a problem.
 
#408
#408
sjt18 said:
ECU actually fields good teams and has put many players in the NFL. It would be very close to home for him... a good place for him to restart if he actually has the ability to make it.
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It isn't in a Big 5 conference.
 
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#409
#409
sjt18 said:
I'm not on a cliff. I'm not crying. I am pointing to facts that you would rather avoid due to being emotionally vested in a "feeling" that things are Jim Dandy and certain to get better.

Being in the best position they've been in for 10 years is sort of like claiming that being a little better than Dooley makes a coach successful. But ftr, UT was in better shape roster wise from 2004 to 2007.
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I expected some of these kids to leave they were sold on playing time and possibly starting as freshmen. These kids lost out to better talent and they are moving on. Good luck to them at their new Div 2 school or the Big 10. Now in a couple years when kids sign knowing they won't start and then take off maybe you will have a point but not in our current situation. I'm pretty sure these coaches who do this for a living know what they are doing.
 
#411
#411
You know there has been players you wish would have left but didn't, so as they do why would you doubt CBJ would not have a plan for this. They may have had a heart to heart with their position coach to the fact where they are now and where are they going, and of course who is coming in.

Recruiting over players is not a new thing in NCAA, just at UT lately.
 
#412
#412
Yup, were taking another full class of recruits for 2015.

Hate to see Helm move on. Maybe he will go to Ill or Northwestern where he won't affect us.

Hendrix too...this guy has a lot of potential too. Maybe got nervous with all the stud DL signings.

Scott should go to NCST or Wake where he can be a factor. He was homesick and recruited over (I think...you never know because he was always hurt and didn't fully learn the system).

So now we have lost: Henderson, Paulk, Scott, Hendrix, Helm, from prized recruiting class. Still a darn good class though.

We also lost: Orta, and possibly Williams.

Good luck to all as they move on to yellower pastures. Thanks for your service.

I hope we can hold on to the rest including: Sawyers.

There are some Sophomores and Juniors like Peterman that still have some decisions to make.
 
#414
#414
sjt18 said:
The program needs Picou and Tuttle to be good too. One hit out of 3 unfortunately gets UT only back to where the whole mess started.
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This is what people keep missing about all this "completely normal" attrition. It may be normal, but we can't afford it, no matter how worthless they think these freshmen were. We aren't a better team without them imo. Especially since we're replacing developmental positions with more freshmen that could be busts.
 
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#415
#415
EZE said:
Just saw where Scott is wanting to go to East Carolina. That says a lot.
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Exactly.

Why on earth would a running back want to go play for an offense ranked 7th in the country when he could stay 3rd string at one ranked 100th?

Kids today....smh.
 
#416
#416
sjt18 said:
The DT commits are exceptional... but it won't mean a thing until they actually contribute on the field.

Carr, Henderson, Hendrix, and Sawyer had us feeling pretty good when they signed too.
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The entire DLine class is freaking loaded and looks to be headed towards getting better.
 
#417
#417
JonGrudensAgent said:
Exactly.

Why on earth would a running back want to go play for an offense ranked 7th in the country when he could stay 3rd string at one ranked 100th?

Kids today....smh.
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Eh, Scott couldn't stay healthy and do anything this year. This is probably the least talent we will ever see at RB which Jones here recruiting. I just cannot feel concerned about him leaving. Possible that he would have been special but I don't see it and apparently the coaches were all too happy to release him ASAP.

Helm is debatable. If it was strictly a matter of the culture with him not liking the cursing, etc, well I have a hard time seeing him playing for a major program and doing well.

Hendrix would have been the one I would have liked to hand onto and he was seeing his role expand but we're getting a lot of talent on the Dline, he didn't look to be in for significant snaps next year unless Barnett or Maggitt had some injury or something.

I just don't see any of those guys being worth losing sleep over. Wish them well and move on. It's unfortunate that it didn't work out for both sides.
 
#419
#419
Regulator said:
It happens. If they weren't good enough to get boatloads of PT this year, then in their minds, they're probably thinking that the best they'll be here is 2nd string. Best of luck to them wherever they go.

But I think this is a decision they'll look back on and regret. JMO.
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Probably bad cases of RileyFergusonits. Ego's larger than talent showed to this point.
 
#420
#420
Roustabout said:
Helm was the #1 TE in the country coming out of HS. Sorry, but that is a major loss.
Most of you guys are getting as giddy as a school girl over the defensive ends in this recruiting class who are no were near as highly rated as Hendrix. He is/was better than anyone UT currently has committed.

I guess those three bricks can be tossed aside and everyone can bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is hunky dory. All we need is another slogan.
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So what do you suggest that everyone do? Start sobbing uncontrollably? They are all 3 big losses in the way of depth that was beat out by other freshmen last year. Oliver, Kamara, and hopefully Phillips will be a more than adequate replacement for all 3 players.
 
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#421
#421
tennrich1 said:
Not here to defend or not defend but I'm amazed at the lack of understanding among "some" Vol fans....SURELY,,,SURELY,,, most of you guys had just a clue that this might happen and will continue to happen some....and many were wringing their proverbial hands about the numbers....if anything...you should realize two things...1. We have a head coach...2. and you aren't it....Please Volnation show a speck of maturity when things like this happen....Oh...btw...Vols hoops had a huge with today....celebrate that...
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Sure looks like you're defending. Just saying. :whistling:
 
#423
#423
DaddyChad said:
Eh, Scott couldn't stay healthy and do anything this year. This is probably the least talent we will ever see at RB which Jones here recruiting. I just cannot feel concerned about him leaving. Possible that he would have been special but I don't see it and apparently the coaches were all too happy to release him ASAP.

Helm is debatable. If it was strictly a matter of the culture with him not liking the cursing, etc, well I have a hard time seeing him playing for a major program and doing well.

Hendrix would have been the one I would have liked to hand onto and he was seeing his role expand but we're getting a lot of talent on the Dline, he didn't look to be in for significant snaps next year unless Barnett or Maggitt had some injury or something.

I just don't see any of those guys being worth losing sleep over. Wish them well and move on. It's unfortunate that it didn't work out for both sides.
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I don't disagree with any of this but I am not gonna slam Scott for being interested in a program like ECU where he could get possible early playing time either like the other poster did.

Especially when they have had some guys make the NFL as well. Chris Johnson being a prime example everyone should be familiar with in TN.

Some people on here have too myopic a view on college football.

Life does exist outside the SEC.
 
#424
#424
JonGrudensAgent said:
Exactly.

Why on earth would a running back want to go play for an offense ranked 7th in the country when he could stay 3rd string at one ranked 100th?

Kids today....smh.
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I heard that Kobe Bryant was applying your logic, leaving the Lakers, and signing with the best team in the D-League. Geez.
 
#425
#425
SamRebel35 said:
This is what people keep missing about all this "completely normal" attrition. It may be normal, but we can't afford it, no matter how worthless they think these freshmen were. We aren't a better team without them imo. Especially since we're replacing developmental positions with more freshmen that could be busts.
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We cannot keep everybody out of even a normal class of 25 (no school can), and even more so from last year's large class.

If any school kept every signee, they would have 100 scholarship players and be 15 over the limit. You have too have around 5 players leave from every class so you can continue signing full classes.
 
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