Run Blocking vs Pass Blocking

#1
Appalachiamuck

Appalachiamuck

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#1
Why is it that the O-Line does a really good job with the pass blocking but the run blocking is so bad? What are the different skill sets required between the two?

I'm also wondering why we did fairly well running the ball last year prior to Bray taking over; even against the likes of Alabama.
 
#2
#2
did we change blocking schemes from last year? i know this doesnt answer the OP's question but i was wondering if we changed anything
 
#3
#3
What's really strange is that generally young lineman have problems with pass blocking schemes, not run blocking.
 
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#4
#4
Appalachiamuck said:
I'm also wondering why we did fairly well running the ball last year prior to Bray taking over; even against the likes of Alabama.
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No, we didn't. Poole broke one run and probably averaged 2 yards a carry the rest of the game, and that's being generous.
 
#5
#5
LawVol13 said:
No, we didn't. Poole broke one run and probably averaged 2 yards a carry the rest of the game, and that's being generous.
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ok, that's true. but iirc we ran the ball ok the first part of last year and didn't have much, if any, success the rest of the year. maybe I'm not remembering correctly. either way, I'm mostly curious why we can pass block but not run block.
 
#6
#6
For whatever reason we aren't blowing people off the ball, that could be technique, leverage or strength. My guess would be they're standing up before trying to block and the low man always wins in the trenches.
 
#7
#7
Appalachiamuck said:
ok, that's true. but iirc we ran the ball ok the first part of last year and didn't have much, if any, success the rest of the year. maybe I'm not remembering correctly. either way, I'm mostly curious why we can pass block but not run block.
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IMO we look like the Colts.

Their #1 concern is keeping Manning upright and throwing the ball. They could care less about the run game. Running the ball takes an OLine with an attitude and ours just does not have it. Maybe they are not coached to be nasty. Maybe they are told to protect Bray and the run game is an after thought. While hard to acccept....it sure looks that way.
 
#8
#8
"Why is it that the O-Line does a really good job with the pass blocking but the run blocking is so bad? What are the different skill sets required between the two?"

Pass blocking requires plugging gaps, identifying rushes, fending off attacks and remaining on your feet.
Run blocking requires attacking the line, blowing open gaps and flattening a few specific defenders on their butts.
 
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#9
#9
American Pig said:
Pass blocking requires plugging gaps, identifying rushes, fending off attacks and remaining on your feet.
Run blocking requires attacking the line, blowing open gaps and flattening a few specific defenders on their butts.
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thanks, this is the kind of answer I was looking for. not knowing much about the nuances of the game, I just assumed if an OL can pass block they should be able to run block too.
 
#10
#10
Run blocking is about being the first off the line and getting a push. I know these boys have the strength and size, but it's either reaction time or lack of desire. They need a mean streak in the worst way.
 
#11
#11
My question is do we have any decent run blockers we could sub in. Might make it obvious but at least with a hole of some type you could get 3-4. Which is 1-2 more than we get now. Also what about pitches to the outside? Get to the edge maybe since our line does seem good at containment. It does defy logic how bad we are at generating any run. It's been that way for a year. I heard someone say tiny was a good run blocker is that true?
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#12
#12
I'm no O line expert, but it seems like we don't even try to fire off the line and push the pile. It seems like we simply try to block the d line to a stalemate and try to sneak the running back by. I don't think I've seen any o linemen block on the backside and slide off to pick up a backer all season. I guess this might be the difference in a zone blocking scheme and an attack blocking scheme. Any insight from more knowledgeable posters?
 
#13
#13
Appalachiamuck said:
thanks, this is the kind of answer I was looking for. not knowing much about the nuances of the game, I just assumed if an OL can pass block they should be able to run block too.
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Unfortunately, at this point they cannot run block to SEC standards. If they cannot mature quickly, we could go 0 for October.
 
#16
#16
Honestly, there aren't many similarities between run blocking and pass blocking except for use of the term "blocking".

Even then, there are several different theories on run blocking. True man blocking is non-existent ("you block #58 no matter where he goes"), and almost every team uses some type of zone blocking. What's generally referred to as "zone blocking" is what I call "swoop blocking", where everyone goes one way, seals gaps, and gets upfield. Swooping isn't about blasting someone off the ball, it's more about crossing the face of the defender and getting upfield. I never minded facing a scheme like that; it relies entirely on a back with good vision and acceleration, and even a mediocre defensive line can contain this type of scheme with relative ease.

The biggest difference, however, is that 99% of pass blocking is passive. It's more about catching the defender and shielding him until the ball is released; most guys are taught to cede ground as long as the defender doesn't get past the OL. This is really only effective if there's no blitz and if the QB releases the ball on time as planned. If there's a blitz, it's usually a running back who's somehow supposed to arrest the forward progress of a charging linebacker. And if the ball isn't released on time or from the spot it's supposed to be, the OL goes from sitting pretty to panicking quickly.

In summation, here is the general idea with both:
Run blocking - Fire off low, lock onto a defender, and drive him out of the hole
Pass blocking - Drop back high, slap fight a defender, and keep shadowing him while continually dropping backwards
 
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#17
#17
GLDunlap said:
This has been talked about over and over and over but we do not agressively run block we use a zone blocking scheme. As long as Chaney is the OC we are not going to have a good running game unless we get a great back with tremendous burst similar to Hardesty.

Zone Blocking Tutorial: Inside Zone Runs - Rocky Top Talk
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Very interesting...It really does explain a lot. That blocking scheme looks very favorable for a Tom Smith type back.
 
#18
#18
Ohio Vol said:
Honestly, there aren't many similarities between run blocking and pass blocking except for use of the term "blocking".

Even then, there are several different theories on run blocking. True man blocking is non-existent ("you block #58 no matter where he goes"), and almost every team uses some type of zone blocking. What's generally referred to as "zone blocking" is what I call "swoop blocking", where everyone goes one way, seals gaps, and gets upfield. Swooping isn't about blasting someone off the ball, it's more about crossing the face of the defender and getting upfield. I never minded facing a scheme like that; it relies entirely on a back with good vision and acceleration, and even a mediocre defensive line can contain this type of scheme with relative ease.

The biggest difference, however, is that 99% of pass blocking is passive. It's more about catching the defender and shielding him until the ball is released; most guys are taught to cede ground as long as the defender doesn't get past the OL. This is really only effective if there's no blitz and if the QB releases the ball on time as planned. If there's a blitz, it's usually a running back who's somehow supposed to arrest the forward progress of a charging linebacker. And if the ball isn't released on time or from the spot it's supposed to be, the OL goes from sitting pretty to panicking quickly.

In summation, here is the general idea with both:
Run blocking - Fire off low, lock onto a defender, and drive him out of the hole
Pass blocking - Drop back high, slap fight a defender, and keep shadowing him while continually dropping backwards
Click to expand...

Excellent summary.

I would add that there is a different mind-set for each and the footwork is completely different as well. I have to wonder how much time Tennessee's OL spent on the old-fashioned blocking sled. The ONLY way you move that thing is to keep your feet under you and drive low and up. In my HS days (back in the time of Giant Lizards) we had a steel seven-man sled that weighed about 1000lbs, the damned thing used old truck springs and the pads were small and always struck me as being designed more to keep our shoulder pads from breaking than anything else. As an added attraction our OL coach weighed about 300lbs and loved to ride that thing. But, by Thunder, we learned how to run block! You learn to move a sled like that and you learn how to move the line of scrimmage.
 
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#19
#19
OneManGang said:
Excellent summary.

I would add that there is a different mind-set for each and the footwork is completely different as well. I have to wonder how much time Tennessee's OL spent on the old-fashioned blocking sled. The ONLY way you move that thing is to keep your feet under you and drive low and up. In my HS days (back in the time of Giant Lizards) we had a steel seven-man sled that weighed about 1000lbs, the damned thing used old truck springs and the pads were small and always struck me as being designed more to keep our shoulder pads from breaking than anything else. As an added attraction out OL coach weighed about 300lbs and loved to ride that thing. But, by Thunder, we learned how to run block! You learn to move a sled like that and you learn how to move the line of scrimmage.
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Yes, but how many sleds are designed to help for laterally blocking and diverting d linemen to open gaps? We don't have the mules for the old school "move the pile" method, so we go with a more "Jujutsu" approach known as zone blocking. I'm not an expert. I finally learned what it was today, so I'm not trying to sound like a smart and knowledgeable o line guru.
 
#20
#20
Ohio Vol said:
Honestly, there aren't many similarities between run blocking and pass blocking except for use of the term "blocking".

Even then, there are several different theories on run blocking. True man blocking is non-existent ("you block #58 no matter where he goes"), and almost every team uses some type of zone blocking. What's generally referred to as "zone blocking" is what I call "swoop blocking", where everyone goes one way, seals gaps, and gets upfield. Swooping isn't about blasting someone off the ball, it's more about crossing the face of the defender and getting upfield. I never minded facing a scheme like that; it relies entirely on a back with good vision and acceleration, and even a mediocre defensive line can contain this type of scheme with relative ease.

The biggest difference, however, is that 99% of pass blocking is passive. It's more about catching the defender and shielding him until the ball is released; most guys are taught to cede ground as long as the defender doesn't get past the OL. This is really only effective if there's no blitz and if the QB releases the ball on time as planned. If there's a blitz, it's usually a running back who's somehow supposed to arrest the forward progress of a charging linebacker. And if the ball isn't released on time or from the spot it's supposed to be, the OL goes from sitting pretty to panicking quickly.

In summation, here is the general idea with both:
Run blocking - Fire off low, lock onto a defender, and drive him out of the hole
Pass blocking - Drop back high, slap fight a defender, and keep shadowing him while continually dropping backwards
Click to expand...

When was that book written?
 
#21
#21
I'm just saying that if you learn to keep your feet and DRIVE with your legs you can successfully run block, it's not rocket surgery. :whistling:

You have to come off low and force the other guy to go upright. When you see Tennessee's DL get shoved around, watch what they are doing. Way too many times the D-linemen are making their first move UP not forward. Unfortunately UT's offensive line shows a disturbing tendency to do the same thing on running plays.

When I'm in the stands I watch the line play more than the ball. I know that's wierd but IMO what happens in the trenches is way more important than what the pretty boys are doing. If you win the battle there, the pretty boys can go win the game or if you can win it on defense the other guy's pretty boys are going to be far less effective.

One of my chief complaints against Coach Fulmer in the latter years was that during the run-up to 1998, when the O-line would start stinking things up, Fulmer would start chewing on them from the time they came off the field. He would continue yelling at them the entire time the other team had the ball and would keep chewing them as they went back on the field. Generally the line responded.

After the NC he quit doing that. All he would do is greet them with that inane overhand clap and let them go to the bench undisturbed. Not surprisingly the o-line always seemed to lack a certain fire.

Let's not even get into the disastrous Jimmy Ray Stephens hire. C.J Leake was in no way ever worth that.
 
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#22
#22
Appalachiamuck said:
Why is it that the O-Line does a really good job with the pass blocking but the run blocking is so bad? What are the different skill sets required between the two?

I'm also wondering why we did fairly well running the ball last year prior to Bray taking over; even against the likes of Alabama.
Click to expand...
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#24
#24
aprilandaaron said:
Hate to down my vols but we looked like a bunch of high schoolers against all Americans. We better improve our O line and learn how to tackle or we will be a second ter sec team @ best .
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It doesn't help when its 3rd and one, the whole stadium expects a run up the middle, which we attempt, not even using a lead fullback, and we lose about 3 yds. I am not a basher of this coaching staff, but I don't think that was one of our better calls on the day.
 
#25
#25
With run blocking you have to push people and open up running lanes, more difficult IMO.
Pass blocking you are trying to engage them and slow down their pass rush.
We have bigger, slower offensive linemen too, they usually pass block better as they take up more space.
 
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