Roster Construction Doomed This Team

#1
zjcvols

zjcvols

"On a Tennessee Saturday night."
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#1
I was going to save this for after the season, but I'm pretty annoyed with that loss. The roster construction was really bad this year. Honestly, the historic offensive rebounding & Nate Ament turning into a lottery pick the second half of the season is the only reason they were able to be top 25 and get a top 6 seed in the tourney this year.

I don't understand why after having a small ball/stretch 4 the last two years (JJJ, then Milicic) they went after Jaylen Carey with Okpara, Phillips, and Estrella already on the team. Ament is designed to play the 4 in college. I don't get why they thought having an undersized, non-vertical 4 with zero skills and bad defense would be beneficial to the team. Imaging having a ball mover like JJJ or a stretch 4 like Milicic getting his minutes and that's probably worth 3-4 wins. I'm not blaming Carey completely, this was just a bad fit.

And while we make mistakes in recruiting/transfer portal, I don't know what the staff saw that made them think Abram & Burg would be contributors this year (more specifically Abram). Both are 23 year olds and they gave up on Abram in December. Burg finally looked like he can play competent minutes in late February. If they were freshman, I wouldn't worry about it. But they asked way too much offensively of Boswell & Evans this year. That's pretty bad scouting by the staff. Ament and Gillespie had zero space to work with this year and it really hurt both their games, they were not able to fulfill their potential this year IMO. I'm more annoyed by Carey than Abram/Burg, but it still needs to be pointed out.

I hope that the staff understands the value of having more shooting. I know they were surprised by Cameron Carr leaving in the middle of December last year and that put them behind the 8 ball a little bit (God, it's really a shame it didn't work out with him) in terms of their shooting. I know they were outbid for a couple high end shooters in last year's portal, that will happen. But I honestly do not want to watch another offense like this again. And sure, not having Zakai as a steady hand and Gillespie played way too much on the ball, but they did nothing to help him out this year. I'm not worried about the program long-term, I'm actually really excited about what Boswell, Evans, Estrella and Brown can be next year. But they cannot have as many misses as they did this year. They must focus on getting real shooting answers in the portal.
 
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#3
#3
This post hits on some things but misses on many others.

I do agree the roster construction and talent evaluations seemed off.

Overall guard play and depth was average at best all year. A lack of shooters is more on guards and the wing than anywhere else. No reliable backups and Boswell is not a good shooter at the starting 2 guard. If ZZ was playing I find it hard to see how JG could guard the other teams 2 man unless they were a finesse outside the paint player.

Also, overall our post players are not good offensively. Carey was underwhelming but he was never meant to be more than a banger and lunch pail player. The lack of shooting condensed the court to the paint and affected his ability to muscle his guy without secondary shot blockers.

I'm not sure how much confidence you can have in a core that you mentioned when it doesn't include a ball handler or good shooter.
 
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#4
#4
Roster construction wasn’t great at the 2 spot, but their insistence on playing Carey is what doomed them…Estrella out there and things go much better, same with Brown, rather than Carey go small with Evans & Ament…all are better options than Carey. Yes they could have been even better with a 2 guard added like Duke Miles, but even with the roster it’s more about the lineups they play imo
 
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#6
#6
I would like to see a roster overhaul in the off-season. I think the only players I would like to see us keep that aren’t graduating or going to the NBA are Amari Evans, JP Estrella, Cade Phillips, and DeWayne Brown.

I don’t see Carey improving. Boswell was a flash in the pan in January with his shooting and he is a walking turnover. Henderson I guess could have potential, but I’m not pressed about keeping him. Burg is going to be 23 next year. He’s peaked.

The high school class doesn’t have a Nate Ament in it so we’re going to need to load up in the portal to compete next year. We need guards in droves. Just give me as many ball handlers and pure shooters for one final season with Barnes and see what happens. Space the floor, chuck it from 3, and try and win every game 101-100.
 
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#7
#7
bleedingTNorange said:
Roster construction wasn’t great at the 2 spot, but their insistence on playing Carey is what doomed them…Estrella out there and things go much better, same with Brown, rather than Carey go small with Evans & Ament…all are better options than Carey. Yes they could have been even better with a 2 guard added like Duke Miles, but even with the roster it’s more about the lineups they play imo
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Problem is that Estrella has his Houdini side. He can amaze you one moment and disappear the next. Right now this team needs all the rest it can get. We recover our legs and get a favorable matchup and we might get out of the first weekend. Considering our offensive liabilities, that would be a heckuva season for this challenged roster.
 
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#8
#8
TheMookieMonster said:
I would like to see a roster overhaul in the off-season. I think the only players I would like to see us keep that aren’t graduating or going to the NBA are Amari Evans, JP Estrella, Cade Phillips, and DeWayne Brown.

I don’t see Carey improving. Boswell was a flash in the pan in January with his shooting and he is a walking turnover. Henderson I guess could have potential, but I’m not pressed about keeping him. Burg is going to be 23 next year. He’s peaked.

The high school class doesn’t have a Nate Ament in it so we’re going to need to load up in the portal to compete next year. We need guards in droves. Just give me as many ball handlers and pure shooters for one final season with Barnes and see what happens. Space the floor, chuck it from 3, and try and win every game 101-100.
Click to expand...
Bringing in 9 new faces is rarely a good idea, that was part of the issue with this years team, you need to have a returning nucleus and identity. I’m not disagreeing with you on what some of those guys are, but you also aren’t going to field a 13 man roster where all 13 guys are rotational pieces either.
 
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#9
#9
Vols got smacked by Houston and Florida last year so Barnes went after someone like Carey (who had great games against vols) instead of focusing on shooting and ball handling.

Talented bigs although great to have never should take the place of talented guard play in college basketball. If Barnes can go out one season with elite shooters and ball handlers I think the defense will fall in place.
 
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#10
#10
bleedingTNorange said:
Bringing in 9 new faces is rarely a good idea, that was part of the issue with this years team, you need to have a returning nucleus and identity. I’m not disagreeing with you on what some of those guys are, but you also aren’t going to field a 13 man roster where all 13 guys are rotational pieces either.
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure the risk in keeping Burg, Boswell, and Carey another year and giving them playing time is any lower than simply bringing in new faces that have higher ceilings. We’re going to see a complete roster turnover whenever a new coach comes in anyway, and I can’t imagine Barnes has more than 1-2 years left so at this point I just want to see something different. Something new.

Running it back with a bunch of pieces that don’t fit and struggle to score the basketball doesn’t seem like a fun time.
 
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#11
#11
bleedingTNorange said:
Bringing in 9 new faces is rarely a good idea, that was part of the issue with this years team, you need to have a returning nucleus and identity. I’m not disagreeing with you on what some of those guys are, but you also aren’t going to field a 13 man roster where all 13 guys are rotational pieces either.
Click to expand...

I agree it doomed this roster, but there were very few returning players. It's hard to do but we've seen it done. Texas Tech several years ago come to mind.
 
#12
#12
zjcvols said:
I was going to save this for after the season, but I'm pretty annoyed with that loss. The roster construction was really bad this year. Honestly, the historic offensive rebounding & Nate Ament turning into a lottery pick the second half of the season is the only reason they were able to be top 25 and get a top 6 seed in the tourney this year.

I don't understand why after having a small ball/stretch 4 the last two years (JJJ, then Milicic) they went after Jaylen Carey with Okpara, Phillips, and Estrella already on the team. Ament is designed to play the 4 in college. I don't get why they thought having an undersized, non-vertical 4 with zero skills and bad defense would be beneficial to the team. Imaging having a ball mover like JJJ or a stretch 4 like Milicic getting his minutes and that's probably worth 3-4 wins. I'm not blaming Carey completely, this was just a bad fit.

And while we make mistakes in recruiting/transfer portal, I don't know what the staff saw that made them think Abram & Burg would be contributors this year (more specifically Abram). Both are 23 year olds and they gave up on Abram in December. Burg finally looked like he can play competent minutes in late February. If they were freshman, I wouldn't worry about it. But they asked way too much offensively of Boswell & Evans this year. That's pretty bad scouting by the staff. Ament and Gillespie had zero space to work with this year and it really hurt both their games, they were not able to fulfill their potential this year IMO. I'm more annoyed by Carey than Abram/Burg, but it still needs to be pointed out.

I hope that the staff understands the value of having more shooting. I know they were surprised by Cameron Carr leaving in the middle of December last year and that put them behind the 8 ball a little bit (God, it's really a shame it didn't work out with him) in terms of their shooting. I know they were outbid for a couple high end shooters in last year's portal, that will happen. But I honestly do not want to watch another offense like this again. And sure, not having Zakai as a steady hand and Gillespie played way too much on the ball, but they did nothing to help him out this year. I'm not worried about the program long-term, I'm actually really excited about what Boswell, Evans, Estrella and Brown can be next year. But they cannot have as many misses as they did this year. They must focus on getting real shooting answers in the portal.
Click to expand...
Vandy’s roster shows there’s athletic shooters out there. They aren’t paying anyone close to $4 million. Heck, I’d say we could buy their whole roster for that. Good for Ament, but you’re better off spreading it around. He’s going to be a great player one day, it he’s far to fragile and frail to do it day in and day out. I think he’ll be a better pro than Boozer, but I’d take a Boozer everyday for college.
 
#14
#14
WaywardVol said:
Vandy’s roster shows there’s athletic shooters out there. They aren’t paying anyone close to $4 million. Heck, I’d say we could buy their whole roster for that. Good for Ament, but you’re better off spreading it around. He’s going to be a great player one day, it he’s far to fragile and frail to do it day in and day out. I think he’ll be a better pro than Boozer, but I’d take a Boozer everyday for college.
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Ament is slow, does not handle the ball well and is an inconsistent outside shooter. I believe he will struggle in the NBA.
 
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#15
#15
zjcvols said:
I was going to save this for after the season, but I'm pretty annoyed with that loss. The roster construction was really bad this year. Honestly, the historic offensive rebounding & Nate Ament turning into a lottery pick the second half of the season is the only reason they were able to be top 25 and get a top 6 seed in the tourney this year.

I don't understand why after having a small ball/stretch 4 the last two years (JJJ, then Milicic) they went after Jaylen Carey with Okpara, Phillips, and Estrella already on the team. Ament is designed to play the 4 in college. I don't get why they thought having an undersized, non-vertical 4 with zero skills and bad defense would be beneficial to the team. Imaging having a ball mover like JJJ or a stretch 4 like Milicic getting his minutes and that's probably worth 3-4 wins. I'm not blaming Carey completely, this was just a bad fit.

And while we make mistakes in recruiting/transfer portal, I don't know what the staff saw that made them think Abram & Burg would be contributors this year (more specifically Abram). Both are 23 year olds and they gave up on Abram in December. Burg finally looked like he can play competent minutes in late February. If they were freshman, I wouldn't worry about it. But they asked way too much offensively of Boswell & Evans this year. That's pretty bad scouting by the staff. Ament and Gillespie had zero space to work with this year and it really hurt both their games, they were not able to fulfill their potential this year IMO. I'm more annoyed by Carey than Abram/Burg, but it still needs to be pointed out.

I hope that the staff understands the value of having more shooting. I know they were surprised by Cameron Carr leaving in the middle of December last year and that put them behind the 8 ball a little bit (God, it's really a shame it didn't work out with him) in terms of their shooting. I know they were outbid for a couple high end shooters in last year's portal, that will happen. But I honestly do not want to watch another offense like this again. And sure, not having Zakai as a steady hand and Gillespie played way too much on the ball, but they did nothing to help him out this year. I'm not worried about the program long-term, I'm actually really excited about what Boswell, Evans, Estrella and Brown can be next year. But they cannot have as many misses as they did this year. They must focus on getting real shooting answers in the portal.
Click to expand...
💯
 
#16
#16
TheMookieMonster said:
I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure the risk in keeping Burg, Boswell, and Carey another year and giving them playing time is any lower than simply bringing in new faces that have higher ceilings. We’re going to see a complete roster turnover whenever a new coach comes in anyway, and I can’t imagine Barnes has more than 1-2 years left so at this point I just want to see something different. Something new.

Running it back with a bunch of pieces that don’t fit and struggle to score the basketball doesn’t seem like a fun time.
Click to expand...
I’m not saying run it back completely, but you mentioned keeping 4, which meant 5 transfers out plus the 4 expected leaving college, that’s 9 departures. I’m not saying you bring back all 9, and bring in your 3 freshman, and sign 1 transfer, but I don’t think you want 5 transfers out either.

Estrella
Evans
Phillips
Brown
Boswell
Henderson
Burg
Massamba
Carey


Those are your 9 returners, I think in an ideal world you’d lose just 2-3 from that group and that allows you to bring in 3-4 transfers.

As for when Barnes is done, folks have been saying 1-2 years for 10 years now.
 
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#17
#17
bleedingTNorange said:
I’m not saying run it back completely, but you mentioned keeping 4, which meant 5 transfers out plus the 4 expected leaving college, that’s 9 departures. I’m not saying you bring back all 9, and bring in your 3 freshman, and sign 1 transfer, but I don’t think you want 5 transfers out either.

Estrella
Evans
Phillips
Brown
Boswell
Henderson
Burg
Massamba
Carey


Those are your 9 returners, I think in an ideal world you’d lose just 2-3 from that group and that allows you to bring in 3-4 transfers.

As for when Barnes is done, folks have been saying 1-2 years for 10 years now.
Click to expand...

I guess the way I look at your list is when you take the bottom 5 names…

Boswell
Henderson
Burg
Massamba
Carey

Do I feel any of those 5 names are going to be impact players next year? I can’t say with certain they won’t be, but my confidence is low. And with no sure fire studs like Ament in our high school class, it means you would have to have a significant hit rate on the 2-3 transfers you bring in.
 
#19
#19
bleedingTNorange said:
I’m not saying run it back completely, but you mentioned keeping 4, which meant 5 transfers out plus the 4 expected leaving college, that’s 9 departures. I’m not saying you bring back all 9, and bring in your 3 freshman, and sign 1 transfer, but I don’t think you want 5 transfers out either.

Estrella
Evans
Phillips
Brown
Boswell
Henderson
Burg
Massamba
Carey


Those are your 9 returners, I think in an ideal world you’d lose just 2-3 from that group and that allows you to bring in 3-4 transfers.

As for when Barnes is done, folks have been saying 1-2 years for 10 years now.
Click to expand...
All those guys aren’t returning. Carey? Nope/ massamba? Seriously? How can Vandy fine players and we Have to get a Massamba??
Boswell is a 10-12 minute guy on any quality team, no offense to the kid. Burg? Spare me.
 
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#21
#21
Know Dewayne brown is just a fr…. But everytime he catches the ball on the high side ., he has no offense yet. I wouldn’t even guard him beyond the 15 foot out . He catches it he is just going pass it
 
#22
#22
TheMookieMonster said:
I guess the way I look at your list is when you take the bottom 5 names…

Boswell
Henderson
Burg
Massamba
Carey

Do I feel any of those 5 names are going to be impact players next year? I can’t say with certain they won’t be, but my confidence is low. And with no sure fire studs like Ament in our high school class, it means you would have to have a significant hit rate on the 2-3 transfers you bring in.
Click to expand...
I think you’re better off getting 2-3 proven studs and bringing back 2-3 of those guys as culture fits and role players rather than running off all 5 guys and brining in 6-7 mid transfers and hoping 3-4 of them hit while also not having chemistry and cultural issues like we see Kim having
 
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#24
#24
Bigorangefan 98 said:
Know Dewayne brown is just a fr…. But everytime he catches the ball on the high side ., he has no offense yet. I wouldn’t even guard him beyond the 15 foot out . He catches it he is just going pass it
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Brown has LOTS of potential. Barnes needs to hire an offensive minded coach to help out or retire.
 
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