Rethinking Hamilton's Tenure

#76
#76
bamawriter said:
Didn't James Cregg go as well?

Still, you're right, it wasn't half. It was a 4/10.
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No. Cregg left after Dooley was hired. As did any other coach not named Kiffin or Orgeron. It wasn't 4/10. A simple internet search would tell you that. But then, as usual, you're clearly not interested in facts here.
 
#77
#77
oregonvol said:
No. Cregg left after Dooley was hired. As did any other coach not named Kiffin or Orgeron. It wasn't 4/10. A simple internet search would tell you that. But then, as usual, you're clearly not interested in facts here.
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Okay, fine. I simply looked at who was on Kiffin's first staff at USC. I'll take your word on the timing.
 
#78
#78
TrueOrange said:
If I'm not mistaken - and I could be, it's been a while - the 2007 extension was more about balancing his contract amount/total with regards to the other coaches in the conference. He had just coached a team to a 10 win season and an SEC championship appearance but was set to make like the third or so lowest amount the next year among all the football coaches in the conference.


I'd have to go article digging again though.
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Actually, the contract extension was part of Hambone's machinations. He was high on the Pearl hire and thought he could make an equally splash hire in football.

The buyout was put in there by the boosters who demanded Fulmer be compensated if Hambone moved on his plan.

Make no mistake, the removal of Fulmer for Lane Kiffin was ALL HAMBONE. He planned it, he sold it, and in hopes of putting a fork in the 2008 team before they went on a run and made a bowl, fired Fulmer mid-season in one of the most classless acts ever witnessed at a major university. And this alone makes him one of the worst ADs in the history of college athletics.

His creative accounting team just piles more red in his ledger. Hambone is the Derek Dooley of ADs; he is the Bamboo Farmer.
 
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#79
#79
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Actually, the contract extension was part of Hambone's machinations. He was high on the Pearl hire and thought he could make an equally splash hire in football.

The buyout was put in there by the boosters who demanded Fulmer be compensated if Hambone moved on his plan.

Make no mistake, the removal of Fulmer for Lane Kiffin was ALL HAMBONE. He planned it, he sold it, and in hopes of putting a fork in the 2008 team before they went on a run and made a bowl, fired Fulmer mid-season in one of the most classless acts ever witnessed at a major university. And this alone makes him one of the worst ADs in the history of college athletics.

His creative accounting team just piles more red in his ledger. Hambone is the Derek Dooley of ADs; he is the Bamboo Farmer.
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Your avatar told me to do this:

Bamboo is a very useful plant.
Hambone adds flavor to a soup.
Bamboo shoots can be good eating.
Hambone is fine for the dog to gnaw.

Bamboo can even do things that steel can't
Hambone doesn't mix well with Fruit Loops.
Bamboo you can love without cheating.
Hambone has uses that's against the law.

Bamboo and Hambone should never be together.
Whether in a soup or a Pittsburgh iron smelter.
 
#80
#80
mocfan said:
I see a lot of people on the board blame Fulmer and we know he loves U.T.
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Just because the man loved UT and was a great coach for a time doesn't excuse him from any fault. I love what he did for the football program and I think he's a great person who truly does love UT. But to not see how he and his staff were falling behind the rest of the league is blind ignorance. Reminiscent of the Bobby Bowden situation at FSU. A beloved coach that took the program to the highest level but had lost his touch on the field and on the recruiting trail. There's a reason he hasn't been hired for another job, even after he's indicated interest.
 
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#81
#81
Stay in Michigan. The Vols were in the SECCG the year before Fulmer was fired and he had a top 5 recruiting class lined up at the time of his dismissal.

What UT had was a weak AD who listened to malcontents like you who didn't understand the ups and downs of the SEC.

UT will bounce back but it would have been a lot quicker if Fulmer had not been fired.
 
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#82
#82
Backwards K said:
Stay in Michigan. The Vols were in the SECCG the year before Fulmer was fired and he had a top 5 recruiting class lined up at the time of his dismissal.

What UT had was a weak AD who listened to malcontents like you who didn't understand the ups and downs of the SEC.

UT will bounce back but it would have been a lot quicker if Fulmer had not been fired.
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You mean had just back doored into the SECCG don't you? And, if you really want to throw the recruiting thing up didn't he have a top five recruiting class that was suppose to be full of JR's for the 08 season? What about the 01' recruiting class? Were they top five also?
 
#83
#83
knoxvols11 said:
You mean had just back doored into the SECCG don't you? And, if you really want to throw the recruiting thing up didn't he have a top five recruiting class that was suppose to be full of JR's for the 08 season? What about the 01' recruiting class? Were they top five also?
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So after witnessing the last 6 UT seasons you're complaining about a year, 2007, where UT won 10 games, 6-2 in the SEC, beat 3 top 20 teams, won a bowl game and earned the right to represent the SEC East (doesn't appear anybody else did) in the SECCG.... where they lost to the eventual National Champions? Winning 10 games including 6 in the SEC isn't backing into anything.
 
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#84
#84
KBVol said:
So after witnessing the last 6 UT seasons you're complaining about a year, 2007, where UT won 10 games, 6-2 in the SEC, beat 3 top 20 teams, won a bowl game and earned the right to represent the SEC East (doesn't appear anybody else did) in the SECCG.... where they lost to the eventual National Champions? Well, ok.
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Oh, I'm not complaining. But, I'm thinking about your post. Won 10 games out of how many? It's not like the old days when there were 10 or 11 game schedules. You mention top 20 but not defeating top 5 teams. Finally won a bowl game. And, lost-by a close margin I will add, to a team who won the NC with two losses. See, you would really have a point if you COULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SAY only lost one game, beat multiple top 5 teams and barely lost to an undefeated team that won the NC.
 
#85
#85
knoxvols11 said:
Oh, I'm not complaining. But, I'm thinking about your post. Won 10 games out of how many? It's not like the old days when there were 10 or 11 game schedules. You mention top 20 but not defeating top 5 teams. Finally won a bowl game. And, lost-by a close margin I will add, to a team who won the NC with two losses. See, you would really have a point if you COULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SAY only lost one game, beat multiple top 5 teams and barely lost to an undefeated team that won the NC.
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I REALLY COULDVE BEEN ABLE TO SAY SOMETHING if they'd gone 14-0 and won the national championship. Why stop short of there? If 10-4, an SEC East "championship", playing in the SECCG, beating a top 20 team in a bowl game and finishing #12 in the country isn't good enough, why not just set the bar all the way? 14-0 or bust baby!
 
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#86
#86
How hard is it to upgrade facilities? Vanderbilt announced it was spending $50 million to upgrade athletic facilities and they don't even have an athletic director!
 
#88
#88
KBVol said:
I REALLY COULDVE BEEN ABLE TO SAY SOMETHING if they'd gone 14-0 and won the national championship. Why stop short of there? If 10-4, an SEC East "championship", playing in the SECCG, beating a top 20 team in a bowl game and finishing #12 in the country isn't good enough, why not just set the bar all the way? 14-0 or bust baby!
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14-0 would be good but to be realistic even Bama with Saban can't pull that off every season. And, to keep realism, how many years have there been a "tie" for East and West Champions? Every year? So, having "tied" for a division really isn't that big of a deal!
 
#89
#89
knoxvols11 said:
14-0 would be good but to be realistic even Bama with Saban can't pull that off every season. And, to keep realism, how many years have there been a "tie" for East and West Champions? Every year? So, having "tied" for a division really isn't that big of a deal!
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What if 2 teams from the sec east go 11-1? Tied for first in the east. Then what? Still not legit? Still backing in?
 
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#92
#92
KBVol said:
What if 2 teams from the sec east go 11-1? Tied for first in the east. Then what? Still not legit? Still backing in?
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knoxvols11 said:
Depends. If they played a head to head..
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Not a good question. Two teams would never be tied for first in the east because you play every team in your division therefore if they had the same record it means one won in their matchup then lost later on. Anyway, the winning team gets the division by .5 from the head to head win.

A better scenario would have been a 3 way tie for lead in the east
 
#93
#93
GreveHaller said:
Not a good question. Two teams would never be tied for first in the east because you play every team in your division therefore if they had the same record it means one won in their matchup then lost later on. Anyway, the winning team gets the division by .5 from the head to head win.

A better scenario would have been a 3 way tie for lead in the east
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Bingo!! Thats my point!
 
#94
#94
PeytonBerry said:
I was thinking about Hamilton's time at UT, and while it was time to go, I do think he accomplished some good things at UT.

1. Gave Neyland a beautiful facelift
2. Transformed TBA
3. Hired a coach that made b-ball relevant again.
4. Avoided NCAA sanctions (admittedly from hires he made)

Often times, I heard people characterize Hamilton as a slimeball, but from those close to him, he was a man of good character who involved himself in the community and charitible endeavors. He is a man of faith, and adopted children in desperate need of a family. I imagine while he was here, he gave his all for Tennessee.

Don't get me wrong, Kiffen and Dooley fall on his watch, and he needed to go. I just think as quick as we are to criticize coaches and AD's, we should have some perspective and give credit where it is due. Perhaps we can say the same for our basketball coach.

Flame away!
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the Neyland face lift has not been completed yet so how can you list that? the projection is they will not get back to working on it before 2021 due to finances.
 
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#95
#95
GreveHaller said:
Not a good question. Two teams would never be tied for first in the east because you play every team in your division therefore if they had the same record it means one won in their matchup then lost later on. Anyway, the winning team gets the division by .5 from the head to head win.

A better scenario would have been a 3 way tie for lead in the east
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Yes, should've said 3 way tie. Whatever, it wasn't so much about getting the math right as it was theoretically arguing the legitimacy of a team that earns a conference title in relation to their rivals.

I once played on a team that tied for the best district record with 2 other teams, all 3 of us were 9-1. We lost to the team that won the tiebreaker but gave the only loss to the team that beat them. 3 very good teams, 3 deserving teams.... and the 1 team that won the tiebreaker didn't back into anything. That's the point. The 2007 UT team under Fulmer, like the Cincy teams under Butch, fairly and squarely won the games they had to win to EARN their conference titles.
 
#96
#96
KBVol said:
The 2007 UT team under Fulmer, like the Cincy teams under Butch, fairly and squarely won the games they had to win to EARN their conference titles.
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Not quite the same thing:

Fulmer's '07 team won the divisional tiebreaker. Both of Jones' Cincinnati teams lost the conference tiebreakers.
 
#97
#97
bamawriter said:
Not quite the same thing:

Fulmer's '07 team won the divisional tiebreaker. Both of Jones' Cincinnati teams lost the conference tiebreakers.
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The argument has been about conference titles, not about who represented the conference in a bcs bowl. Cincinnati earned a share of Big East conference title in 2011 by having an identical conference record as W Va, 5-2. WVa played in the BCS bowl awarded the conference because they were ranked higher in the polls.... but that hasn't been the argument. Only discussing the validity of earning a conference title. In 2012, Cincinnati once again earned a share of the Big East conference title by going 5-2 along with 3 other teams.
 
#98
#98
KBVol said:
The argument has been about conference titles, not about who represented the conference in a bcs bowl. Cincinnati earned a share of Big East conference title in 2011 by having an identical conference record as W Va, 5-2. WVa played in the BCS bowl awarded the conference because they were ranked higher in the polls.... but that hasn't been the argument. Only discussing the validity of earning a conference title. In 2012, Cincinnati once again earned a share of the Big East conference title by going 5-2 along with 3 other teams.
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By that logic, Alabama won the SEC West last year. Sounds kinda silly, no?
 
#99
#99
bamawriter said:
By that logic, Alabama won the SEC West last year. Sounds kinda silly, no?
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Logic? It's a fact. Auburn lost to LSU... Alabama beat LSU.... Auburn beat Alabama. Both teams were 7-1. Doesn't sound silly to me. Bama fans and AD officials wouldn't suggest they were co-champs of the SEC West?
 
#100
#100
KBVol said:
Logic? It's a fact. Auburn lost to LSU... Alabama beat LSU.... Auburn beat Alabama. Both teams were 7-1. Doesn't sound silly to me. Bama fans and AD officials wouldn't suggest they were co-champs of the SEC West?
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The only school I know of that has publicly claimed a division "co"-championship is Ole Miss.
 
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