Recruiting forum off topic thread (merged)

[kmkemp11]

How so? Are you arguing that there would be the same # of abortions if it were illegal? Or are you arguing abortion is beneficial to society in some other way?

I've heard the idea that people will have abortions even if it's illegal as an argument before but I've never seen any evidence that it's true (if you have some please share). It was illegal for years prior to Roe v Wade but I don't think we have reliable stats on illegal abortions. The stats immediately after Roe V. Wade show that abortion instances increased substantially over the first few years after it was legalized. This seems to imply that abortion was less common prior to Roe V Wade and the incidence rate increased as it became more acceptable.

The sheer # of legal abortions makes me think the # would have to be lower if it were illegal. Just cutting off federal funding along might reduce the incidence rate.

Making abortion legal definitely increased the number of abortions. But degrees matter. I don't know of any reliable statistics. You're right that a citation is needed. In the absence of evidence one way or the other, I just go with what seems logical. Abortion is easy to carry out personally in a multitude of ways. Combine that with the high personal incentive given the financial and social ramifications of having a baby... it all leads me to believe that there are not many people that choose to not abort simply because of a law that's practically impossible to enforce.

 

[kmkemp11]

Home run post. :good!:

The hypocrisy of the left astounds me at times. Add in they can go insane over a dead lion in Zimbabwe when they need to deflect from the Planned Parenthood body parts debacle.

There's enough hypocrisy to go around. Framing it as a left vs right debate is just dumb.

 

[Bjorn_Yesterday]

.

 

[Coleslaw]

Home run post. :good!:

The hypocrisy of the left astounds me at times. Add in they can go insane over a dead lion in Zimbabwe when they need to deflect from the Planned Parenthood body parts debacle.

There is plenty of hypocrisy from both extremes to go around. Unfortunately, there is much truth in the saying that republicans concern about life begins at conception and ends at birth. How many children die or are irreparably harmed from abuse that could have been prevented with better social services programs - you know, the ones that republicans gut every chance they get? Support for the death penalty? Remember the thief on the cross and the parable of the laborers in the vineyard - God works in God's time.

I am just a Christian who believes in the sanctity of all human life who is struggling to navigate a country run by 2 parties controlled by their extremes who like to beat each other up over which lives matter. The saddest part is that the majority of Americans have swallowed the lie that these are the only 2 points of view. Peace.

 

[TriedAndTrueVOL]

Once upon a time, I really enjoyed this thread...

 

[KokoBVol]

Once upon a time, I really enjoyed this thread...

It's so hard, to say goodbye, to yesterday.

 

[Rockvegas]

My wife and I have 4 daughters and one of them passed away. Our second daughter was one day from being born and died in the womb. Thus remains the hardest thing for me to ever get over. You go from one day the baby will be here tomorrow to planning a funeral. When we learned that we were going to have number three, we were on pins and needles during the pregency. Mid-term the doctor wanted us to abort due to her having Downs Syndom based on tests performed. We said no because whatever God planned for us was fine with us and would be grateful for her. Later, they ran the same tests and found nothing wrong with her due to errors they made when entering the data into the computers. She is a senior in high school this year and has a perfect GPA with some freshman college classes already completed. Believe it is each persons choice on this subject, but could not go against my upbringing.

 

[BaldBiker]

My wife and I have 4 daughters and one of them passed away. Our second daughter was one day from being born and died in the womb. Thus remains the hardest thing for me to ever get over. You go from one day the baby will be here tomorrow to planning a funeral. When we learned that we were going to have number three, we were on pins and needles during the pregency. Mid-term the doctor wanted us to abort due to her having Downs Syndom based on tests performed. We said no because whatever God planned for us was fine with us and would be grateful for her. Later, they ran the same tests and found nothing wrong with her due to errors they made when entering the data into the computers. She is a senior in high school this year and has a perfect GPA with some freshman college classes already completed. Believe it is each persons choice on this subject, but could not go against my upbringing.

And with this story.....this subject should be over. I don't know you, but I love you man. :good!:

 

[ACvol3]

My wife and I have 4 daughters and one of them passed away. Our second daughter was one day from being born and died in the womb. Thus remains the hardest thing for me to ever get over. You go from one day the baby will be here tomorrow to planning a funeral. When we learned that we were going to have number three, we were on pins and needles during the pregency. Mid-term the doctor wanted us to abort due to her having Downs Syndom based on tests performed. We said no because whatever God planned for us was fine with us and would be grateful for her. Later, they ran the same tests and found nothing wrong with her due to errors they made when entering the data into the computers. She is a senior in high school this year and has a perfect GPA with some freshman college classes already completed. Believe it is each persons choice on this subject, but could not go against my upbringing.

Incredible story.. Can't believe a doctor would suggest that to u

 

[Rockvegas]

The doctor was the top doctor at the base hospital and thought he was sparing us some heartache. We went home and cried for awhile and then decided to stay the course which turned out to be the right decision. I was an E6 in the Navy and was stationed overseas at the time.

I enjoy reading everyone's opinion on all the different topics and just wanted to share our story with fellow volunteers. I graduated from Kingston in 1987 and my dad lives in South Doyle near the high school.

 

[BaldBiker]

The doctor was the top doctor at the base hospital and thought he was sparing us some heartache. We went home and cried for awhile and then decided to stay the course which turned out to be the right decision. I was an E6 in the Navy and was stationed overseas at the time.

I enjoy reading everyone's opinion on all the different topics and just wanted to share our story with fellow volunteers. I graduated from Kingston in 1987 and my dad lives in South Doyle near the high school.

My Navy brethren.....Semper Fi from a crusty old Marine. :hi:

 

[Vols4us]

There's enough hypocrisy to go around. Framing it as a left vs right debate is just dumb.

Agree on the hypocrisy. Have you missed the last 40+ years of the left/right debate on the subject? So let's try this for your understanding. Abortion - pro choice - is a left position. It's on their mantle and stated as a position in the DNC where the left resides. Do you get that part of it? The vast majority of liberals support pro-choice. The vast majority of conservatives (right) support pro-life. Gallup from their recent polling states 70% of America believes abortion should not be legal or should be restricted to specific events such as rape. 29% stated belief in pro-choice. Those in that later group are dominated by the left. There is no framing involved. You either believe life begins at conception or you believe it doesn't. There is no middle ground. The left says it doesn't.

Ronald Reagan - “I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.”

 

[BaldBiker]

Agree on the hypocrisy. Have you missed the last 40+ years of the left/right debate on the subject? So let's try this for your understanding. Abortion - pro choice - is a left position. It's on their mantle and stated as a position in the DNC where the left resides. Do you get that part of it? The vast majority of liberals support pro-choice. The vast majority of conservatives (right) support pro-life. Gallup from their recent polling states 70% of America believes abortion should not be legal or should be restricted to specific events such as rape. 29% stated belief in pro-choice. Those in that later group are dominated by the left. There is no framing involved. You either believe life begins at conception or you believe it doesn't. There is no middle ground. The left says it doesn't.

Ronald Reagan - “I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.”

Wow. Thanks. Just couldn't let it rest could ya? Enough opinions have been given on this subject from both sides of the argument. Let it go. We've discovered that as Vol fans we have varying opinions on different subjects, yet, we are all still Tennessee Vol fans. Let that be enough for today. :hi:

 

[Vol464]

Wow. Thanks. Just couldn't let it rest could ya? Enough opinions have been given on this subject from both sides of the argument. Let it go. We've discovered that as Vol fans we have varying opinions on different subjects, yet, we are all still Tennessee Vol fans. Let that be enough for today. :hi:

Maybe you could just skip it if you don't want to read it? Kind of like I do when it's about soccer.

 

[kmkemp11]

My wife and I have 4 daughters and one of them passed away. Our second daughter was one day from being born and died in the womb. Thus remains the hardest thing for me to ever get over. You go from one day the baby will be here tomorrow to planning a funeral. When we learned that we were going to have number three, we were on pins and needles during the pregency. Mid-term the doctor wanted us to abort due to her having Downs Syndom based on tests performed. We said no because whatever God planned for us was fine with us and would be grateful for her. Later, they ran the same tests and found nothing wrong with her due to errors they made when entering the data into the computers. She is a senior in high school this year and has a perfect GPA with some freshman college classes already completed. Believe it is each persons choice on this subject, but could not go against my upbringing.

Awesome story. I will say though to the future potential parents, that if you're deadset against abortion, you should avoid the Downs test. The chance of mortality due to the test combined with the rate of false positives just makes it an unneeded risk (at least as of 5 years ago when I last had a child and researched it).

 

[BaldBiker]

Maybe you could just skip it if you don't want to read it? Kind of like I do when it's about soccer.

Sound logic, but for one thing. They put "Recruiting Forum" at the beginning of the thread title. I often see that and mistake it for "football talk" instead of "off topic". Maybe they should just change the thread title to "Off Topic".....in which case I would probably never come in to it.

 

[Vol464]

Sound logic, but for one thing. They put "Recruiting Forum" at the beginning of the thread title. I often see that and mistake it for "football talk" instead of "off topic". Maybe they should just change the thread title to "Off Topic".....in which case I would probably never come in to it.

I hear you. Was not trying to be a jerk to you. I skim past all kinds of stuff in these threads. Off topic, recruits, all of 'em. Every once in awhile i find good info in one of them. Hardly ever this one though.

 

[85SugarVol]

My wife and I have 4 daughters and one of them passed away. Our second daughter was one day from being born and died in the womb. Thus remains the hardest thing for me to ever get over. You go from one day the baby will be here tomorrow to planning a funeral. When we learned that we were going to have number three, we were on pins and needles during the pregency. Mid-term the doctor wanted us to abort due to her having Downs Syndom based on tests performed. We said no because whatever God planned for us was fine with us and would be grateful for her. Later, they ran the same tests and found nothing wrong with her due to errors they made when entering the data into the computers. She is a senior in high school this year and has a perfect GPA with some freshman college classes already completed. Believe it is each persons choice on this subject, but could not go against my upbringing.

Beautiful. So very happy to hear that your daughter, and family, were blessed in such a remarkable way.

 

[engineerVOL]

Do you abortion advocates support gender-based abortion? Because it's real. If you do, you're consistent, I'll give you that. And based on what you know about the process of abortion and still see it a socio-economic issue and the "good of society" then.. Well... Wow.

I am looking forward to tomorrow's cloture vote on S. 1881. Sadly this will get filibustered. Praying for a William Wilberforce moment.

 

[BaldBiker]

I hear you. Was not trying to be a jerk to you. I skim past all kinds of stuff in these threads. Off topic, recruits, all of 'em. Every once in awhile i find good info in one of them. Hardly ever this one though.

Nah....I didn't take it as you being a jerk. This one isn't intended to necessarily be good info. Unfortunately (IMO) the thread title catches people who aren't paying attention. Also unfortunately, I am one of those who doesn't pay enough attention.

Just call it "Off Topic Forum" dammit!!! I'm not smart enough to read past the first two or three words!!!

 

[engineerVOL]

Nah....I didn't take it as you being a jerk. This one isn't intended to necessarily be good info. Unfortunately (IMO) the thread title catches people who aren't paying attention. Also unfortunately, I am one of those who doesn't pay enough attention.

Just call it "Off Topic Forum" dammit!!! I'm not smart enough to read past the first two or three words!!!

Ha, me too. I'm like oh great I'm here again and feel the need to respond.

 

[Vol464]

Nah....I didn't take it as you being a jerk. This one isn't intended to necessarily be good info. Unfortunately (IMO) the thread title catches people who aren't paying attention. Also unfortunately, I am one of those who doesn't pay enough attention.

Just call it "Off Topic Forum" dammit!!! I'm not smart enough to read past the first two or three words!!!

Maybe Freak will change the order for you. Off Topic Recruiting Forum Thread.

:hi:

 

[jlawso21]

I think there is a common fallacy in the abortion debate whereby people equate what they believe to be right action with what they think should be law. Laws are meant to have a net positive effect on a society of people. Oftentimes, what the majority considers right action correspond to laws, but sometimes, they don't. Alcohol use is the most glaring example. It's hard to argue that alcohol isn't responsible for a lot of crimes and that we *might* be better off without it. But criminalizing alcohol has proven ineffective at stopping its use, so making a law prohibiting it doesn't have a net positive effect. In the same way, prohibiting abortion doesn't have a net positive impact in the USA. The debate shouldn't be about what's right or wrong. I think most people are sympathetic (even the far left) to killing unborn babies.

If we required that every baby that is to be aborted is to be given a name first then the abortion rate would drop by at least 50%.

No one knows or cares if a lion dies in Africa, but name it "Cecil" and all of sudden it has more sympathy than a live baby in the United States. We are truly a sick society

 

[DaddyChad]

I'm against abortion in almost all cases but ones that involve rape. I don't give a damn how you justify that religiously, morally, or legally.

All of that said we almost need to have some widespread form of birth control for those who are incapable or unwilling to raise a child. I'm fairly sure whatever it is would be far cheaper than welfare and the crime produced.

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

I'm on page 517 of this post, and I see it's up to 528 pages, and I can tell these next 11 pages are going to be highly entertaining. Dance puppets, dance.