Recruiting Forum Off Topic Thread III

[Sleegro]

Well, only Christians accept Him for who He claimed to be. The original post was directed at, whatever that guys name was, don't remember, who said on the same page that God was egotistical and sadistic for sending people to hell. Then on the same page said that He admires Jesus, who said over and over again that if people do not believe in Him that they are going to hell. It was a very inconsistent position.

The writer to the Hebrews would not agree that someone who does not accept Christ appreciate and admire Him. Listen at how he describes those who hear of the truth of Christ but reject Him:

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?" Hebrews 10:26-29

I get yer point here, but I guess for semantics sake, one can admire and appreciate his message and not believe the resurrection and Son of God parts. His underlying message of empathy, unconditional love and those lessons about morality are objectively admirable and good for society whether or not you believe he's the Son of God.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Very fair point, as I lean towards the idea that god doesn't exist, at least not in the form described in major religious texts.

I am more open to the idea of a deity or a god that we can't yet comprehend.

I am an agnostic though, because I am ultimately undecided.

I’ve heard this viewpoint referred to as an “agonostic-atheist” because it’s not as steadfastly certain as a true atheist, but not as ambivalent as a true agnostic when it comes to considering mainstream religions.


That’s basically where I tend to fall myself. I’m open to the idea of some type of creator or higher power or something. If there is one, I’m super skeptical that we’ve come close to hitting upon what exactly his nature is. I’m even more skeptical that it would view us as the end all be all and the reason for everything else in the universe to exist.

So yeah, I reject the religions we have. But no, I don’t claim to be 100% certain that there is nothing greater.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I literally said that very thing earlier today. I beleive in a higher power and a grand design just dont know what it is.

Yeah, and so Agnosticism certainly applies here and not atheism.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Very fair point, as I lean towards the idea that god doesn't exist, at least not in the form described in major religious texts.

I am more open to the idea of a deity or a god that we can't yet comprehend.

I am an agnostic though, because I am ultimately undecided.

I can only hope and pray that one day you will come to know Christ. It is all that I can do.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Now this is what I understand agnosticism to be. I could be wrong, but from my studies, the difference between atheism and agnosticism is openness to the possibility of their being a God, correct? My only point to Swanson was that he said that God was made up. That is more atheistic than agnostic to say that.

IMO, man made up god and then wrote the Bible, yes. But I don't know for sure. None of us do. Maybe there's a god, maybe there isn't. We don't know. There is no proof either way.

 

[ODTVOL]

Your mother's eggs were fertilized with sperm. You were born. You will live for a while. If you live long enough to earn, you will be taxed. Then, you will die. Unless your body is burned, it will eventually rot. These are the only universally relevant facts. Everything beyond that is nothing more than guesswork.

 

[VolunteerVandiver]

I can only hope and pray that one day you will come to know Christ. It is all that I can do.

And I wholeheartedly appreciate your thoughts and prayers.

I have been to an Orthodox Christian church with my father-in-law a few times over the past months, and I've found it fascinating. One day, I will find what works for me. Until then, I will be the best I can be.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

True. But we are all sinners and fall short. Every day. Every single day. Do the sins you or I commit on a daily basis carry less weight than someone who leads a homosexual lifestyle?

My sins are not less grievous than someone committing a homosexual sin. But "lifestyle" of any sin carries more weight. If I lived a lifestyle of sin of any kind it would mean that I cannot be a Christian. Don't take my word for it, the Bible says this:

"Everyone who makes a practice of sin also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him keeps on sinning; no one who kips on sinning has either seen Him or known Him" 1st John 3:4-6.

Everyone is a sinner, and nobody this side of heaven will ever completely stop sinning as John says in chapter 1 "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves." But, there is a clear statement here that the one who practices a lifestyle of sin does not know Christ.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I get yer point here, but I guess for semantics sake, one can admire and appreciate his message and not believe the resurrection and Son of God parts. His underlying message of empathy, unconditional love and those lessons about morality are objectively admirable and good for society whether or not you believe he's the Son of God.

Sure, but it is very selective and ignores the majority of His message. The same Christ who said to "love your neighbor" also said that if that neighbor does not believe in Him that "he is condemned already." John 3:17

 

[jakez4ut]

Right. But the Holy Trinity is used to explain how Christianity is monotheistic to adhere to Abrahamic belief in one God. But if you are saying that Judaism and Islam are worshiping a different God, then you are implying that there is more than one god which contradicts the point of the doctrine of the Trinity, IMO. I think your main point is that you can't get into heaven without accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior. My original point in this is that there were religions before and after Christianity based on a single God told about by the same person, Abraham, who all taught the same basic morals. And there were many other non-Abrahamic religions that also had the same basic moral lessons. Which supports your argument that the reason for an objective morality is God. However, if God is the reason for an objective morality, then it would seem he injected that same basic morality into nearly every religion in the world's history. So, that can be taught in any religion, or even in absence of religion as some have stated with the golden rule.

:thumbsup:

 

[Sleegro]

Sure, but it is very selective and ignores the majority of His message. The same Christ who said to "love your neighbor" also said that if that neighbor does not believe in Him that "he is condemned already." John 3:17

I was talking about his moral lessons and messages. IMO the passage you quoted here, John 3:17, is not a moral lesson. It seems more like explaining a prerequisite for heaven. I have less problems believing Christ is the Son of God and was Resurrected, than I do with all of these prerequisites for heaven. IMO living a moral and just life is more important than what religion or code taught you that. I live my life hoping not to disappoint God, and hopefully even make God proud of me. If I go to hell because I didn't fully agree with one of God's many religions then I have accepted that consequence.

 

[jakez4ut]

The right direction is to have the traditional marriage we read about in the word. It doesn't really matter what they say, what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. Thing about it is, we're all given a free will to lead the kind of life we want to lead. I wouldn't be able to stop them from being gay, but make no mistake, they'll know of my displeasure.

why does your displeasure matter? who are YOU to judge?

if they're already damned, God will take care of the displeasure part himself, doubtful he needs you screaming who knows what at them to boot.

 

[jakez4ut]

I was talking about his moral lessons and messages. IMO the passage you quoted here, John 3:17, is not a moral lesson. It seems more like explaining a prerequisite for heaven. I have less problems believing Christ is the Son of God and was Resurrected, than I do with all of these prerequisites for heaven. IMO living a moral and just life is more important than what religion or code taught you that. I live my life hoping not to disappoint God, and hopefully even make God proud of me. If I go to hell because I didn't fully agree with one of God's many religions then I have accepted that consequence.

yep. and every spin off religion has different rules.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I was talking about his moral lessons and messages. IMO the passage you quoted here, John 3:17, is not a moral lesson. It seems more like explaining a prerequisite for heaven. I have less problems believing Christ is the Son of God and was Resurrected, than I do with all of these prerequisites for heaven. IMO living a moral and just life is more important than what religion or code taught you that. I live my life hoping not to disappoint God, and hopefully even make God proud of me. If I go to hell because I didn't fully agree with one of God's many religions then I have accepted that consequence.

Living a good life is a noble desire. But what about your sin? What will you do about that?

 

[jakez4ut]

Living a good life is a noble desire. But what about your sin? What will you do about that?

i go to mass and buy my way out of it.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

i go to mass and buy my way out of it.

Lol, find that in the Bible! That was the teaching that sparked the Reformation.

 

[jakez4ut]

Lol, find that in the Bible! That was the teaching that sparked the Reformation.

eh, this thread needed some levity.

 

[jakez4ut]

Lol, find that in the Bible! That was the teaching that sparked the Reformation.

and being catholic in Mississippi as a kid, when they got to that part of the lesson in world history.........

it was, um....uncomfortable. had so many kids wanting to know how much it cost to get in to heaven.lol:

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

and being catholic in Mississippi as a kid, when they got to that part of the lesson in world history.........

it was, um....uncomfortable. had so many kids wanting to know how much it cost to get in to heaven.lol:

Yeah, very sad.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Wow..it looks like almost every athiest and agnostic on VN showed up here like moths to a flame. For something you guys don't care about, you sure do like to care about it.

I believe in God the Father and Jesus Christ his son.


Carry on Bass, you got a lot more stomach for endless argument than I do, and you do it a lot better than me.

 

[VEKZY]

Just curious, how many here who follow the Bible also follow it's teachings of what food is clean and unclean?

Because by the same logic that being homosexual is living a lifestyle of sin, eating these foods is living a lifestyle of sin.

Edit: See Leviticus 11 for the list.

 

[Catbone]

Just curious, how many here who follow the Bible also follow it's teachings of what food is clean and unclean?

Because by the same logic that being homosexual is living a lifestyle of sin, eating these foods is living a lifestyle of sin.

Edit: See Leviticus 11 for the list.

Something something old testament

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Wow..it looks like almost every athiest and agnostic on VN showed up here like moths to a flame. For something you guys don't care about, you sure do like to care about it.

I believe in God the Father and Jesus Christ his son.


Carry on Bass, you got a lot more stomach for endless argument than I do, and you do it a lot better than me.

You call it argument I call it friendly debate

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Just curious, how many here who follow the Bible also follow it's teachings of what food is clean and unclean?

Because by the same logic that being homosexual is living a lifestyle of sin, eating these foods is living a lifestyle of sin.

Edit: See Leviticus 11 for the list.

See this question here by this fellow. On the surface it is a good question that deserves an answer for an honest person that just wants to know, but this is not an honest question imo..I can ascertain that from his at least rudimentary knowledge of that scripture. The guy already knows the answer we will give about Christ being the end of the Law, and just wants to argue.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

You call it argument I call it friendly debate

Semantics brother 😁