Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

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#2,001
#2,001
Vols4us said:
One more comment on this subject. My wife and I facilitate DivorceCare and GriefShare support groups. From all the pain, the loneliness, and the disrupted lives comes hope that originates from one place - Jesus Christ. Full recovery from the junk of life that affects every single human being is contingent upon acceptance of him and leaving sin in the rear view mirror.

Death came into this world from all mankind's choice of rebellion over obedience. We simply did not love the Lord and his ways enough to obey. The Lord created us, gave instructions on how we should live, died for us to redeem us from sin, and rose again to life to conquer death once and for all for those who accept the free gift. But it is not for those who do not accept him as Lord and Savior, that rebel from him and go a different way. It's not much of a reach to understand that obedience is a by-product as well as characteristic of somebody that has accepted Christ as their personal savior. In so doing we acknowledge that personal rebellion leads to sin, which is not acceptable to God. Since I am a sold out believer, I find it easy to understand what is sinful since Jesus set the standard, but Moses, Abraham, David, the prophets, the Apostles, the disciples, etc. before me helped define it all. It's all right there for me to read as well as to observe in others.

Yes, participating in homosexuality is a sin. Supporting homosexuality as a practice is sin. The Bible clearly states it is an abomination. If you do not accept Moses, Paul, etc. - how and why do you claim to accept Jesus? They are each God's children as believers. Jesus is of God as part of the Holy Trinity. God used Moses, Jesus used Paul. They were chosen - they did not choose. Jesus states all who believe and accept are his brothers and sisters, and those coming after him would do even greater works than him. We are members of his family when we accept. He said he came not to abolish one letter of the law of the prophets, but to fulfill the law. So if we look to Jesus' words; and it is asserted he supposedly said nothing about homosexuality; well, he handpicked Paul to be a major force in delivering his message to the entire world. So what Paul says - goes.

That being said, the clincher for me and many of us is that God told Moses to write things down. Those things are fundamental principles of Jewish, Christian and Islamic believers everywhere. He stated and Moses wrote that marriage is between a man and a woman. He stated any sex outside of marriage is fornication or adultery, which is defined as sin. How hard is that to understand? To not believe it is confirmation that the person is not practicing the principles of the faith and may indeed be lost. Which is why people rebel against it.
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I responded to your last post about the Methodist Church but somehow it got deleted.
 
#2,005
#2,005
Jesus' Laws:

"You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day must be a Sabbath day of complete rest, a holy day dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who works on that day must be put to death." (NLT) — Exodus 35:2

“If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,’ … and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones" … (NKJV) — Deuteronomy 22:13-14,20-21


Jesus' words:

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)
 
#2,007
#2,007
Vols4us said:
Not my fight any more as we left the denomination, so I may be a little more blunt. It is primarily relating to the potential approval of practicing homosexual ministers and ministerial support of that group of people as it pertains to marriage. The UMC Book of Discipline prohibited it in the past.

It has been delegates primarily from Africa and more conservative areas of the U. S. that have held this off in the past. Some elements of UMC leadership have tried to limit the number of delegates and leadership from Africa as a result. That region of the world represents some of the fastest growing memberships, while U. S. membership continues to decline. They even chose to decline two new Bishop positions in Africa that they more than have earned.

In summary, a potential denominational split is at risk.
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It is my understanding that some of the African nations criminalize homosexuality. Yet, they allow polygamy. While the ministry is growing there, we have many cultural, political, and even spiritual differences that have to be reconciled. It isn't just the Methodist Church that is declining on membership; it's Christians and church-goers altogether.

I heard our bishop speak on all of this in February, and the leadership seems to expect a decline in membership over this subject. However, his belief was that the Methodist church will not split based on its organization and how the church owns the property for many of the congregations.

It's an issue that isn't going away.
 
#2,009
#2,009
volatil said:
Divine intervention IMO
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:)

I anticipated this thread would include light-hearted discussions of barbecue, snakes and such. But somehow it always seems to turn toward those controversial topics of politics and religion.
 
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#2,010
#2,010
Freak said:
:)

I anticipated this thread would include light-hearted discussions of barbecue, snakes and such. But somehow it always seems to turn toward those controversial topics of politics and religion.
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Snake handlers?

I have eaten rattle snake, and I remembered it tasted kind of like chicken.
 
#2,011
#2,011
As a current member of the united Methodist Church, I will denounce my membership and leave the church if they adopt these provisions.
 
#2,015
#2,015
InVOLuntary said:
Basically what was mentioned earlier. Allowing gay ministers and such. By allowing it, you are condoning it, which is wrong imo.
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Aren't all sins supposed to be equal in the eyes of God? If so then how is anyone allowed to be a minister? How is being gay different from being an adulterer or a coveter?
 
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#2,017
#2,017
jjay2518 said:
Aren't all sins supposed to be equal in the eyes of God? If so then how is anyone allowed to be a minister? How is being gay different from being an adulterer or a coveter?
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Yes, a sin is a sin in God's eyes. He doesn't rank them. There's a difference in stumbling and committing a sin and practicing a sin. When you sin, God tells us to repent and ask for forgiveness. To repent means to turn away from that sin. For example, you smash your thumb and say a curse word. You repent and ask for forgiveness, but it's not a practice like you walking around with a sailor's mouth and can't say 2 words without cussing. Can a person with a sailor's mouth repent and be forgiven? Absolutely. That person has turn from that sin. Will he or she slip up and say something maybe from time to time and sin? Quite possibly. I've been that person with a bad mouth, and it's hard to overcome. For the longest, I had to think about what I said so that I didn't cuss.

The same is true for a gay person. To repent and ask for forgiveness means the person is turning from it. It that person just willfully stays in a gay relationship, then he/she isn't truly repenting. Hope this answers your question, and sorry for the length of post.
 
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#2,018
#2,018
I feel bad for the gay people that can't help that they're gay and attracted to others of the same sex. Guess they'll all burn in hell for having that "problem" which us straight people will never understand :/
 
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#2,019
#2,019
OGbabyaviVol said:
Yes, a sin is a sin in God's eyes. He doesn't rank them. There's a difference in stumbling and committing a sin and practicing a sin. When you sin, God tells us to repent and ask for forgiveness. To repent means to turn away from that sin. For example, you smash your thumb and say a curse word. You repent and ask for forgiveness, but it's not a practice like you walking around with a sailor's mouth and can't say 2 words without cussing. Can a person with a sailor's mouth repent and be forgiven? Absolutely. That person has turn from that sin. Will he or she slip up and say something maybe from time to time and sin? Quite possibly. I've been that person with a bad mouth, and it's hard to overcome. For the longest, I had to think about what I said so that I didn't cuss.

The same is true for a gay person. To repent and ask for forgiveness means the person is turning from it. It that person just willfully stays in a gay relationship, then he/she isn't truly repenting. Hope this answers your question, and sorry for the length of post.
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Thanks for the response. So then by current rules would someone who is attracted to people of the same sex and is forthcoming about these feelings but not practicing homosexual behavior be allowed to be a minister?
 
#2,020
#2,020
jjay2518 said:
Thanks for the response. So then by current rules would someone who is attracted to people of the same sex and is forthcoming about these feelings but not practicing homosexual behavior be allowed to be a minister?
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I'm the wrong one to ask, as I know nothing about the United Methodist denomination. IMHO, no man who is willingly practicing and living in a sin should be allowed to be a preacher/minister. If that sin is brought to his attention and he is unwilling to repent and turn from it, then he is not fit for the kingdom and God's work.
 
#2,021
#2,021
jjay2518 said:
Thanks for the response. So then by current rules would someone who is attracted to people of the same sex and is forthcoming about these feelings but not practicing homosexual behavior be allowed to be a minister?
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Yes in theory. Would depend on the congregation. Some would not be able to handle it, which would be wrong on their part. No biblical problem with it in my opinion though.
 
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#2,022
#2,022
#1Volfaninmo said:
Yes in theory. Would depend on the congregation. Some would not be able to handle it, which would be wrong on their part. No biblical problem with it in my opinion though.
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Spot on. I should have added that to my post. By abstaining, the person in question is not in sin and is showing true repentance.
 
#2,024
#2,024
Freak said:
:)

I anticipated this thread would include light-hearted discussions of barbecue, snakes and such. But somehow it always seems to turn toward those controversial topics of politics and religion.
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It's the two subjects where no one has the true answers (despite their claims otherwise), so by human nature, they are inclined to attempt forcing their personal preferences on everyone else. Or in other words, never ending sources of debate/enlightenment/entertainment.

For me, it's entertainment. :)
 
#2,025
#2,025
jjay2518 said:
Thanks for the response. So then by current rules would someone who is attracted to people of the same sex and is forthcoming about these feelings but not practicing homosexual behavior be allowed to be a minister?
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That's the definition of being a Christian. Having urges to sin but resisting them. So he should be allowed to minister, and even encouraged to do so. Just like having an urge to gossip but resisting it. Urges aren't sinful, acquiescence to them is.

Every pastor ever has had urges to have sex with women other than his wife.
 
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