Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

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Social issues of society are very important. Survival of a nation and its foundational principles are far more important. Got to keep the main thing, the main thing. This election is about the later. Once we are safer and the economy is providing opportunity for everybody, then more efforts can be given to cultural changes. That also takes upheaval and change when the corrupted are the rulers. Those that claim truth as falsehood and promote lies and deception in this PC, poor me climate need to be exposed for the pathetic liars they are.

As to the value of life: Deuteronomy 30:19 set the basis for life versus death in all regards. Something that is not understand by the more radical elements of the Islamic faith that encourages death as a way to please God. It is also not understood by those that consider abortion as a woman's right to choose. She does. The following then applies.

"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live."

There are over a dozen verses that apply to the unborn in the womb. But if the person does not believe the Bible is the Word of God, then they use a different authority for their choices. Unfortunately, many believe themselves to have the final authority or maybe the government or a judge. As for me and my house...

I agree with everything that you said. I am simple so I try to judge not lest thou be judged...if we would just Love thy neighbor as thyself, things would be better.

If those that govern would try to do the right thing rather than pander to those that pay them...also better.

Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather what can you do for your country has never been needed more than right now. It's a shame that not a single politician has JFK's vision for our country.
 
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I agree that government shouldn't tell people how to live unless it directly affects the liberty of another. Utopianism is not something I'm interested in attempting. People are and should be free to choose how they want to live, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to throw out our morals and religion in the public square to appease your choices.

Separation of church and state is not in the Declaration or the Constitution anywhere. It's from one letter from Jefferson. That's not binding law. Now,"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is in the Constitution, but it's intent was clearly noted by it's authors to prohibit Congress from legislating either to establish a national religion or to disestablish a state religion. That's right, state religions are permissible. Just not national. Regardless, it doesn't mean what you and many might think it means. Jefferson's belief in a separation of church and state was not intended to create a safe space for everyone to be shielded from exposure to common religion in public, but rather a cautionary tool to keep government from taking over large religious institutions for their own self serving agendas like King Henry VIII and the Church of England thereafter or from squeezing out other competing denominations (ie protestants vs catholics).

There are some tough choices we have to make as a people regarding some of these moral gray areas like those you've listed, but for me it's fairly cut and dry.

For me, a fetus is a baby. If I kick your pregnant wife in the stomach it would kill your baby, not your "mass of tissue" that fetuses are made out to be. There are living botched abortion human beings walking around right now that prove that. Now a three day old fertilized egg may not have all the developed features of a human being, but we all darn well know that's what's in there. A living, growing human being. Our Constitution demands that we protect life. No one disputes that. A baby and/or a fetus qualifies as human life for me. We protect turtle eggs and eagle eggs as if they are the actual animal so why not human beings? Now, all that said, I believe certain medical conditions and extreme circumstances can permit the RARE use of abortion, but I don't think it should be used as a form of birth control as 99% of abortions are. Abortion was actually started as a mainstream practice by racist eugenics advocates like Margaret Sanger to control and ultimately eliminate the black population in America. Disgusting stuff. Nevertheless, thanks to a weird Supreme Court ruling it's a protected act. It should have been left to the states to decide individually as prescribed in the Constitution.

Gay marriage is settled. Just like abortion, SCOTUS should have simply allowed states to individually decide as prescribed in the Constitution. What they did was wrong. They have no business monkeying around in affairs reserved for the several states.
"The powers delegated to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the state governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects such as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce. The powers reserved to the several states will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people." - James Madison.
That's pretty clear to me. From a Constitutional standpoint the gay marriage ruling is 100% wrong, morals aside.

Now as to the moral side of it, the Bible is clear. Homosexuality is a major sin. It's consistently referred to as an abomination and even had two cities famously destroyed. There's no question that according to the Bible which is the only source we have been given on Earth for God's word that homosexuality is a big no no. I do not believe that means we are supposed to mistreat homosexuals in any way whatsoever. I love gay people with all my heart. I'd help a gay person the same as any other human being. I just can't condone their lifestyle choice. That means I cannot agree with gay marriage even though I really don't care what gay people do.
I do not think marriage is something that was previously exclusionary toward gay people in the first place which was the only argument. Marriage is a religious act recognized by the state to promote the family unit which is the basis of our entire society, and by definition it is a religious ceremony proclaiming a mutual life time commitment between one man and one woman. Gay people were free to marry any non blood relative member of the opposite sex the same as everybody else. Conversely, they were also free to have same sex weddings in public all day every day without any persecution whatsoever. They just weren't recognized by the federal government or forced to be recognized by every other state. Today's gay activism's goal isn't tolerance anymore. It's promotion. But I digress. Had SCOTUS simply allowed states to decide individually as the Constitution prescribes we'd not have much controversy as the system would work like it was designed to.

Excellent post.
Sodom and Gomorrha were Old Testament?
Lots of strange things in the Old Testament.

New Testament much more love and acceptance?
 
I agree with everything that you said. I am simple so I try to judge not lest thou be judged...if we would just Love thy neighbor as thyself, things would be better.

If those that govern would try to do the right thing rather than pander to those that pay them...also better.

Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather what can you do for your country has never been needed more than right now. It's a shame that not a single politician has JFK's vision for our country.

On AI tonight, Trent sang Skynyrd's Simple Man. It brought tears to all. We've got to get back to the simple truths of life. I used to be a complicated guy - not so much anymore. :hi:
 
It costs more to execute someone than to put them in prison for life. I don't have a problem with the death penalty for extreme cases. Either way, us tax payers end up getting the bill

Only because of the PCers...
Many prisons used to be self sufficient by having the prisoners work.
Life sentence means more work.
Execution is not expensive, having to pay for all the stays and appeals is very costly.
Guillotine, hanging, even firing squad not pricey. Actually lethal injection isn't expensive either.
 
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Only because of the PCers...
Many prisons used to be self sufficient by having the prisoners work.
Life sentence means more work.
Execution is not expensive, having to pay for all the stays and appeals is very costly.
Guillotine, hanging, even firing squad not pricey. Actually lethal injection isn't expensive either.

I agree 100% - the problem with the statement of the death penalty costing more is the acceptance that the system cannot be changed. Of course it can. It changed to what it is now from a less PC version. But then those making money off the system would need to find other sources of funding because there will be much less work for them.
 
Well I own guns, believe in spending conservatively and am more than ok with the death penalty.
Abortion? Wouldn't ok it in my family but, like you, I don't involve myself in the legislative discussion.

As far as sins -
I don't bother at all with whether something is a sin or not when it comes to laws being debated. Nor should I and I believe/support that as much as the second amendment which fails with some.
Same as I fail with many on the left because I believe you can tax a company out of the country or out of hiring, I fail with some on the right because I believe there is a limit on toxins that can be introduced without a negative outcome. Not a tree hugger 'no bbq's' but don't buy the 'no consequences' argument either.

Not really sure why I posted this?
Because I most likely will rouse a response from someone and I have no interest or intentions of debating my beliefs. Just bored I guess. :hi:

Excellent way to approach things
Have you considered running for office?
If a candidate said this and meant it, I would most assuredly vote for them!
:hi:

5k post here on VN quasi-political...never in a million years would I have bet that a political post would get 5k. So,
Go Big Orange!
Go Vols!
VFL!
 
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The Bible does give authority for it, I'd agree. I'd rather just give someone as much time on Earth as possible to accept Jesus.

Besides, a painless death seems like an easy way to pay for hideous sins such as murder. Spending the rest of your life in a small cell, now that sounds much worse.

Make them work to pay for their imprisonment costs and for reparations to those wronged by the criminal act...

Many other countries, jail is actually a place that no one wants to go. As a criminal, if you want to eat, you or your family has to pay the cost of the food. Or you don't eat...simple
 
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I evidently have a lot to say off topic...
Hopefully I am not viewed in a Bruin/Leb/D4H way

:hi:

Bus rides at Disneyworld gives me time to reflect lol
 
I've been doing a bit of reflecting myself over the past few days. chargervol & inVol are making sense to me...
 
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Only because of the PCers...Many prisons used to be self sufficient by having the prisoners work.
Life sentence means more work.
Execution is not expensive, having to pay for all the stays and appeals is very costly.
Guillotine, hanging, even firing squad not pricey. Actually lethal injection isn't expensive either.

I hate the PC crowd as much as anyone, but what does that have to do with the legal system (stays, appeals, etc.)?

The people who get upset at us using gendered pronouns have next to no control over the legal system we have in place for the death penalty.
 
I hate the PC crowd as much as anyone, but what does that have to do with the legal system (stays, appeals, etc.)?

The people who get upset at us using gendered pronouns have next to no control over the legal system we have in place for the death penalty.

I meant the changes in the prison system here in the US...giving prisoners many many luxuries, making work in prison non-mandatory. If not the PC crowd well it was certainly their predecessors that stated that it was inhumane to make prisoners work to defray part of the cost of their imprisonment...
Sorry if I worded it poorly or incorrectly.

CatBone was posting about how expensive the prison system was for life imprisonment or execution. My argument was that neither had to be as expensive as the US makes it. Other countries don't spend nearly the money on prisons or prisoners as the US does...
 
I meant the changes in the prison system here in the US...giving prisoners many many luxuries, making work in prison non-mandatory. If not the PC crowd well it was certainly their predecessors that stated that it was inhumane to make prisoners work to defray part of the cost of their imprisonment...
Sorry if I worded it poorly or incorrectly.

CatBone was posting about how expensive the prison system was for life imprisonment or execution. My argument was that neither had to be as expensive as the US makes it. Other countries don't spend nearly the money on prisons or prisoners as the US does...

I'm not sure it can just be boiled down to us giving prisoners too many luxuries though. For one thing, we don't want to be comparing our prison systems to the ones in third world countries.

Also, prison labor works better in theory than it would in practice in the US. The fact of the matter is that the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world by far and most of our prisons are so full that trying to utilize prison labor the way we used to is just unrealistic. We'd have to increase spending so much to ensure it was secure that it likely wouldn't be worth it in the first place. Also, it probably wouldn't be great for working class americans to have potentially millions of jobs outsourced (insourced? lol) to prison laborers.


The simplest way to make prisons less expensive would be to take steps towards ending mass incarceration on the level we see it today and reserving prisons for those who are truly dangerous to society (which would also take some of the load off of the legal system). But there's too much money being made and pockets being lined on both sides of the political aisle for that to happen any time soon.
 
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Y'all realize voting for him is pointless right? He can't win.

Actually it is not pointless. The Dumbocrats and republicans wrote the campaign finance laws to basically keep themselves in power. It states that in order for a party to be eligible for the campaign money given to every republican or democratic presidential candidate except Obama, the party must have received 5% of the popular vote in the previous presidential election. That money levels the playing field and gets people invited to debates. Being called a 'major party' has lots of benefits, and no third party ever has gotten those benefits, but the dens and gop get them every year. The vote for Johnson this year may not get him into office, but it definitely matters.

Oh, and there's that pesky little not receiving 270 electoral college votes that could send the election to the House of Representatives for the first time since 1825, which has its own ramifications...
 
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Actually it is not pointless. The Dumbocrats and republicans wrote the campaign finance laws to basically keep themselves in power. It states that in order for a party to be eligible for the campaign money given to every republican or democratic presidential candidate except Obama, the party must have received 5% of the popular vote in the previous presidential election. That money levels the playing field and gets people invited to debates. Being called a 'major party' has lots of benefits, and no third party ever has gotten those benefits, but the dens and gop get them every year. The vote for Johnson this year may not get him into office, but it definitely matters.

Oh, and there's that pesky little not receiving 270 electoral college votes that could send the election to the House of Representatives for the first time since 1825, which has its own ramifications...

These are excellent points. I am leaning more and more towards voting for him as well. The campaign money is more than reason enough. We desperately need a legitimate third party. I would not call myself a libertarian, per se, but of all the candidates being trotted forth, he seems to be the one that could lead us the best.
 
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These are excellent points. I am leaning more and more towards voting for him as well. The campaign money is more than reason enough. We desperately need a legitimate third party. I would not call myself a libertarian, per se, but of all the candidates being trotted forth, he seems to be the one that could lead us the best.

 
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Excellent post.
Sodom and Gomorrha were Old Testament?
Lots of strange things in the Old Testament.

New Testament much more love and acceptance?

The God of the old testament is the same unchanging God of the new covenant. The Holy Trinity is not in conflict with one another.
 
The God of the old testament is the same unchanging God of the new covenant. The Holy Trinity is not in conflict with one another.

Okay

Jesus in the New Testament wouldn't torture Job in a contest with Lucifer...

New Testament is forgive and forget

Old Testament is an Eye for an Eye.

We can disagree and both still be correct in our views. There is much more than one way to interpret the Bible.
 
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