Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

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#151
#151
bignewt said:
Ha there are loonies in every party, you know that. If you study the official platform and those that support and believe in it like Gary Johnson it almost makes too much sense to give them a seat at the table.
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Yes, but there are higher percentages of loony in the Libertarian Party than in the traditional two. Big time. The Green Party is to the Democrat Party what the Libertarian Party is to the Republican Party. I'm very familiar with Libertarianism and it's representatives. Gary Johnson is okay, but like I said before, I cannot support open borders, defunding the military, isolationism, neo-confederatism, etc.

As a Libertarian you should value Bob Barr's endorsement of Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz has actually argued cases in front of the Supreme Court on behalf of liberty and won. Rand Paul and Ted Cruz have filibustered for hours on behalf of liberty, bringing to public attention important threats to liberty that would otherwise likely go unnoticed and unopposed. Libertarians need to support the few defenders of liberty in the Republican Party like Cruz, Lee, Paul, Brat, and occasionally even Rubio so that one day they can have a place within the Republican Party itself rather than spinning wheels as a third party movement.
 
#152
#152
Skullbone said:
Yes, but there are higher percentages of loony in the Libertarian Party than in the traditional two. Big time. The Green Party is to the Democrat Party what the Libertarian Party is to the Republican Party. I'm very familiar with Libertarianism and it's representatives. Gary Johnson is okay, but like I said before, I cannot support open borders, defunding the military, isolationism, neo-confederatism, etc.

As a Libertarian you should value Bob Barr's endorsement of Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz has actually argued cases in front of the Supreme Court on behalf of liberty and won. Rand Paul and Ted Cruz have filibustered for hours on behalf of liberty, bringing to public attention important threats to liberty that would otherwise likely go unnoticed and unopposed. Libertarians need to support the few defenders of liberty in the Republican Party like Cruz, Lee, Paul, Brat, and occasionally even Rubio so that one day they can have a place within the Republican Party itself rather than spinning wheels as a third party movement.
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Eh, Cruz is more of a faux-libertarian piggybacking on a wave of socially conservative Tea Party evangelicals.

Johnson is a much more ideologically pure Libertarian.
 
#153
#153
Too many things with the Republicans i cant agree with. They are the same as Democrats in my book, they are like a horrific go bot that fit together to muck up our country with back room deals and ineffective bureaucracy. They are both guilty and need a third party to shake things up. Again, people are somehow blind to it all or get behind a complete clown like trump. Idiocracy has arrived.
 
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#155
#155
volssam said:
Gary Johnson. Isn't he prochoice? That's why I can't support him.
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Which is pretty much why a true libertarian will never get elected as president. The political spectrum, in a lot of ways, is like a horseshoe: if you go far enough left or right your ideologies mirror each other in many ways. Libertarianism is so far right on the spectrum that it appeals to many people who are socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

The latter group of Americans is far too small to ever push a candidate all the way to the White House.
 
#156
#156
Yep, thats true, its sad but true. Thats is why we are where we are, basically political inbreeding.
 
#157
#157
As the country slowly moves further left, the older conservatives are quite literally dying off. The VAST majority of this generation are SJW and liberal socialists. In about 10-20 years we will be similar to Europe IMO. Globalism vs nationalism is the name of the game.
 
#159
#159
bignewt said:
Ha there are loonies in every party, you know that. If you study the official platform and those that support and believe in it like Gary Johnson it almost makes too much sense to give them a seat at the table.
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I'm a big Gary Johnson fan. Wish he'd gotten more national attention.
 
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#160
#160
InVOLuntary said:
I've heard it theorized that the Clintons put Trump up to run for this very outcome. Starting to believe it now. If you'll notice the Democratic numbers have been while the Republican numbers have been very high. This suggest a lot of crossover voters in the primaries by the democracts. I think the Democrats have wanted Trump to be the nominee since day one.
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Disclaimer: I'm not a political person (and I like your fb posts. :) )

When asked why the party of 'PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY' keeps presenting unelectable candidates?, blames someone else.


Sorry, but I laughed.
Seriously though, not slamming you but even crossover voters shouldn't be allowed to excuse that fraud representing conservatives.
 
#161
#161
Darth_Shiveman said:
Eh, Cruz is more of a faux-libertarian piggybacking on a wave of socially conservative Tea Party evangelicals.

Johnson is a much more ideologically pure Libertarian.
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Well he's not a faux-libertarian as he doesn't claim to be a libertarian. He's a conservative. Most people just don't understand the difference in libertarians, rinos, and conservatives. Libertarians are righteous in their pursuit of liberty, but retarded by their misguided anarchist and isolationist tendencies. They have too many overlaps with leftists for my liking. Anyone who advocates for open borders and closed military bases is not going to work for me. I'm for a smaller government, not a dissolved government replaced with the old articles of confederation, which is the heart of libertarianism. But even still I respect the Libertarian platform more than the Democrat platform.
 
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#162
#162
Skullbone said:
Well he's not a faux-libertarian as he doesn't claim to be a libertarian. He's a conservative. Most people just don't understand the difference in libertarians, rinos, and conservatives. Libertarians are righteous in their pursuit of liberty, but retarded by their misguided anarchist and isolationist tendencies. They have too many overlaps with leftists for my liking. Anyone who advocates for open borders and closed military bases is not going to work for me. I'm for a smaller government, not a dissolved government replaced with the old articles of confederation, which is the heart of libertarianism. But even still I respect the Libertarian platform more than the Democrat platform.
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Thanks for posting. Keeps me from having to. Would be redundant.
 
#163
#163
Skullbone said:
Well he's not a faux-libertarian as he doesn't claim to be a libertarian. He's a conservative. Most people just don't understand the difference in libertarians, rinos, and conservatives. Libertarians are righteous in their pursuit of liberty, but retarded by their misguided anarchist and isolationist tendencies. They have too many overlaps with leftists for my liking. Anyone who advocates for open borders and closed military bases is not going to work for me. I'm for a smaller government, not a dissolved government replaced with the old articles of confederation, which is the heart of libertarianism. But even still I respect the Libertarian platform more than the Democrat platform.
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Excellent post. :good!:
 
#164
#164
chargervol said:
Disclaimer: I'm not a political person (and I like your fb posts. :) )

When asked why the party of 'PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY' keeps presenting unelectable candidates?, blames someone else.


Sorry, but I laughed.
Seriously though, not slamming you but even crossover voters shouldn't be allowed to excuse that fraud representing conservatives.
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Are you speaking of Trump? Or all the candidates?
 
#165
#165
Skullbone said:
Well he's not a faux-libertarian as he doesn't claim to be a libertarian. He's a conservative. Most people just don't understand the difference in libertarians, rinos, and conservatives. Libertarians are righteous in their pursuit of liberty, but retarded by their misguided anarchist and isolationist tendencies. They have too many overlaps with leftists for my liking. Anyone who advocates for open borders and closed military bases is not going to work for me. I'm for a smaller government, not a dissolved government replaced with the old articles of confederation, which is the heart of libertarianism. But even still I respect the Libertarian platform more than the Democrat platform.
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I get that you're using hyperbole to make a point here, but nobody wants that. Nobody. That's like saying that all Cruz supporters want the establishment clause of the first ammendment abolished. It's fanciful.


And I was't saying that Cruz claims to be a libertarian (though the Tea Party itself often masquerades as libertarian). My only point was that there isn't nearly as much incentive for libertarians to vote for Cruz as you claimed. They may both be on the same side of the spectrum, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Cruz's views and values represent their own.
 
#166
#166
jjay2518 said:
I'm a big Gary Johnson fan. Wish he'd gotten more national attention.
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I didn't know anything about Gary Johnson until the last few posters mentioned him. I've been doing research on him throughout the evening and am now also a big Gary Johnson fan.
 
#167
#167
SmokinBob said:
I didn't know anything about Gary Johnson until the last few posters mentioned him. I've been doing research on him throughout the evening and am now also a big Gary Johnson fan.
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He was the gov of New Mexico while I was growing up there. He did a great job. Before and after that, he ran the state's largest construction company, big j enterprises. He's a triathlete and has competed in the ironman. He should be the next president. He probably would have been president already if he hadn't been basically thrown out of the Republican Party for saying on a hot microphone that the drug war was lost and a waste of money and that pot should be legal and taxed (this was 20 years ago, and now he's being shown to be right, btw).
 
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#169
#169
I would imagine that Libertarianism grows in popularity and really be able to challenge the Republican Party if the Republican Party doesn't change. I'm in my mid-20s and I would say a very large percent of my peers are starting to trend that way. For a lot of people social issues just aren't that important, or they're socially liberal in the first place. And for a lot of people how much energy Republicans put into things like abortion and gay marriage is off-putting and seems antiquated.

Which makes the bigger issue that it splinters conversation votes and allows the democrats more power. The younger demographic historically doesn't very often, and that's what makes Bernie so scary is his ability to rally those voters. Even if he doesn't win the nomination if he is able to stay relevant and his voters continue to vote in local elections the political landscape of the country could change very quickly
 
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#170
#170
BJHSVol said:
I would imagine that Libertarianism grows in popularity and really be able to challenge the Republican Party if the Republican Party doesn't change. I'm in my mid-20s and I would say a very large percent of my peers are starting to trend that way. For a lot of people social issues just aren't that important, or they're socially liberal in the first place. And for a lot of people how much energy Republicans put into things like abortion and gay marriage is off-putting and seems antiquated.

Which makes the bigger issue that it splinters conversation votes and allows the democrats more power. The younger demographic historically doesn't very often, and that's what makes Bernie so scary is his ability to rally those voters. Even if he doesn't win the nomination if he is able to stay relevant and his voters continue to vote in local elections the political landscape of the country could change very quickly
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“The great pillars of all government and of social life [are] virtue, morality, and religion. This is the armor, my friend, and this alone, that renders us invincible.”
-Patrick Henry


" Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society." - George Washington

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of man and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?
-George Washington

"[O]nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." -Benjamin Franklin

"Whereas true religion and good morals are the only solid foundations of public liberty and happiness . . . it is hereby earnestly recommended to the several States to take the most effectual measures for the encouragement thereof." Continental Congress, 1778


I'm with these guys over the 20 something year olds who don't think social issues are important anymore. Without virtue and morality, liberty is unsustainable.
 
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#172
#172
Skullbone said:
“The great pillars of all government and of social life [are] virtue, morality, and religion. This is the armor, my friend, and this alone, that renders us invincible.”
-Patrick Henry


" Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society." - George Washington

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of man and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?
-George Washington

"[O]nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." -Benjamin Franklin

"Whereas true religion and good morals are the only solid foundations of public liberty and happiness . . . it is hereby earnestly recommended to the several States to take the most effectual measures for the encouragement thereof." Continental Congress, 1778


I'm with these guys over the 20 something year olds who don't think social issues are important anymore. Without virtue and morality, liberty is unsustainable.
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Everyone's morality is subjective, so unless an action impedes on someone else's rights then where do you draw the line? Someone can think Gay marriage is wrong, that's their own choice, but that doesn't effect you. Let them get married that's their own choice and who are you to say that you are right and they're wrong. (Not you specifically but you as a general term).

And look I'm pro-life, but I don't think abortion should be illegal. Facts are, you can't scientifically prove when exactly life starts. Saying you believe that life starts at conception is a religious argument, and that shouldn't be enough for a law. Separation of church and state is a great thing, and it protects people with beliefs that are in the minority. But that doesn't mean the majority can impose their beliefs on others.

I'm over everyone who wants to legislate their own morality over everyone else and lives in an ivory tower and wants to tell everyone else how to live. That's not how the government works
 
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#173
#173
BJHSVol said:
Everyone's morality is subjective, so unless an action impedes on someone else's rights then where do you draw the line? Someone can think Gay marriage is wrong, that's their own choice, but that doesn't effect you. Let them get married that's their own choice and who are you to say that you are right and they're wrong. (Not you specifically but you as a general term).

And look I'm pro-life, but I don't think abortion should be illegal. Facts are, you can't scientifically prove when exactly life starts. Saying you believe that life starts at conception is a religious argument, and that shouldn't be enough for a law. Separation of church and state is a great thing, and it protects people with beliefs that are in the minority. But that doesn't mean the majority can impose their beliefs on others.

I'm over everyone who wants to legislate their own morality over everyone else and lives in an ivory tower and wants to tell everyone else how to live. That's not how the government works
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I agree. I have several gay friends. If you can find true love and are happy then I am happy for my friends.

I was unsure about prochoice until my wife and I couldn't conceive and adopted. Still unsure, there are always exceptions...

In the name of not imposing religion on everyone, school prayers are banned. Just imposes a different opinion on thise that want to openly pray. Not right at all, but liberal bully yes.

As I have gotten older, I have fewer absolute opinions.

Bullying is awful. Terrorists are nothing more than hypocritical bullies imo.
 
#174
#174
BJHSVol said:
Everyone's morality is subjective, so unless an action impedes on someone else's rights then where do you draw the line? Someone can think Gay marriage is wrong, that's their own choice, but that doesn't effect you. Let them get married that's their own choice and who are you to say that you are right and they're wrong. (Not you specifically but you as a general term).

And look I'm pro-life, but I don't think abortion should be illegal. Facts are, you can't scientifically prove when exactly life starts. Saying you believe that life starts at conception is a religious argument, and that shouldn't be enough for a law. Separation of church and state is a great thing, and it protects people with beliefs that are in the minority. But that doesn't mean the majority can impose their beliefs on others.

I'm over everyone who wants to legislate their own morality over everyone else and lives in an ivory tower and wants to tell everyone else how to live. That's not how the government works
Click to expand...

Here's how I see it. Marriage should not be a government controlled issue in the first place. I should not have to go to a government controlled agency to get married if I want to be married.

I too am pro-life but I am stringent the other way and believe that life does begin at conception. I do not like abortions and find them to be repulsive, I do understand certain situations but still do not personally agree.

There will always be someone's morality being pushed to the forefront. At this time, the trend is going to those that are what the religious deem as immoral who are making the decisions. I do feel that we are trending toward a slippery slope heading for a cliff but I believe in the democratic process of the good ole U.S. of A.
 
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