Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

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#751
#751
seaofORANGE22 said:
The Bible is not a book detailing things we should do. It's an account about what Jesus already did,
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Ok..c'mon man. That is just not true. The New Testament is full of do's and don'ts. I'll say this word again...OBEDIENCE. I get, I think, what you are trying to say, but that statement is just not truth the way it is said.
 
#752
#752
volssam said:
I keep saying this, so I don't know if it is getting looked over or missed or not understood or ignored.

I agree. You must believe to be saved. Belief that leads to baptism. Just as it did in acts 16.

This is what I don't get. If there is a verse that says what we must do to be saved, we must pay attention. If there are multiple verses that say different things about what to do to be saved, we must pay attention.

There are verses that only say we must believe to be saved.

There are verses that only say we must repent to be saved.

There are verses that only say confession leads to salvation

There are verses that only mention baptism for salvation.

And there are verses on different occasions that talk about a mixture of the above.

So to me the safe and obvious answer is they all are required for salvation.

But at the center of it is having the right heart that has an obedient and sincere faith in God and his grace and in Jesus as his Son with saving power.
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Amen..and the Truth shall set you free. That is what I have been saying also.
 
#753
#753
I also am sorry if I've offended anyone. I thank God for not just forgiving me, but changing and continuing to change me. I am not the rebellious man I used to be. I try to live and will continue to try to live, how the Gospel of Jesus Christ tells me to..by the grace and mercy of almighty God....God bless y'all today.
 
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#754
#754
volssam said:
I keep saying this, so I don't know if it is getting looked over or missed or not understood or ignored.

I agree. You must believe to be saved. Belief that leads to baptism. Just as it did in acts 16.

This is what I don't get. If there is a verse that says what we must do to be saved, we must pay attention. If there are multiple verses that say different things about what to do to be saved, we must pay attention.

There are verses that only say we must believe to be saved.

There are verses that only say we must repent to be saved.

There are verses that only say confession leads to salvation

There are verses that only mention baptism for salvation.

And there are verses on different occasions that talk about a mixture of the above.

So to me the safe and obvious answer is they all are required for salvation.

But at the center of it is having the right heart that has an obedient and sincere faith in God and his grace and in Jesus as his Son with saving power.
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Well said. It really is so simple, but I think our human minds want to make things more complicated than it really is.
 
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#756
#756
InVOLuntary said:
Out of respect for you and OG, I'm not taking this any further. No where in the bible does it state that you must be immersed for a baptism to count. You chooseto interpret the bible to your set beliefs and are judgmental to others that interpret differently. That is wrong IMO. I'll refrain from judging you for your differences in opinions because I think that is God's job as stated in the bible. :hi:
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I truly apologize if I offended you and if you thought my posts were being judgmental. I'm sorry, man! I was not trying to be judgmental at all. I believe that God's word is what judges. I was simply stating the definition of the root word of baptism pertaining to the original language it was written in. If you take that information, and then look at all if the baptisms in the NT, it only makes sense that immersion occurred...this is information gained by necessary inference. I mentioned in another post...why would Jesus go down into the Jordan, why would the Ethiopian eunuch go down into the water to be baptized? If sprinkling is the acceptable form of baptism, why didn't they just dip a pitcher into the water? I think these are real questions that need to be considered. The act of baptism symbolizes us being buried with Jesus in death (our old man of sin is buried in the water), and then we are raised out of the water a new man that is sinless at that point in time...Romans 6. It is a spiritual death, burial, and resurrection. We show it through a physical act of baptism.

I love all of you crazy Vol fans on here!!! I love this site to enjoy so many things to discuss, but mainly our passion of Vol football, because only my brother-in-law shares this passion with me. I love having the freedom to discuss God on here. Thanks to all for a great discussion of God's word. It is inspiring to me! Once again, I am not judging anyone. I love you all, and hope and pray that on that final day, I will see all of you in heaven and worship God for eternity. What a glorious day that will be!
 
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#757
#757
InVOLuntary said:
Oh it is truly simple, no doubt about it.
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I hope you accept my apology. I never want to rub anyone the wrong way. It's a constant battle for me to try to post things in the correct light without sounding condescending. I am very passionate for the Lord and His word, and I think sometimes I may come across the wrong way. Plus, it's so easy sometimes to take things the wrong way when it's being written on a message board.
 
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#758
#758
OGbabyaviVol said:
I hope you accept my apology. I never want to rub anyone the wrong way. It's a constant battle for me to try to post things in the correct light without sounding condescending. I am very passionate for the Lord and His word, and I think sometimes I may come across the wrong way. Plus, it's so easy sometimes to take things the wrong way when it's being written on a message board.
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We're good OG, I have no doubt that the way baptism occurred then was exactly as you and the bible describe. You use the word "symbolize". It's my point that sprinkling symbolizes the exact same thing. It's my contention that God couldn't care less about the method. Sometimes I think people get caught up in the ritual than it's actual meaning.

Like I said in an earlier post, you and Sam are inspirational to me. I think the world of you both.
 
#759
#759
InVOLuntary said:
We're good OG, I have no doubt that the way baptism occurred then was exactly as you and the bible describe. You use the word "symbolize". It's my point that sprinkling symbolizes the exact same thing. It's my contention that God couldn't care less about the method. Sometimes I think people get caught up in the ritual than it's actual meaning.

Like I said in an earlier post, you and Sam are inspirational to me. I think the world of you both.
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Thanks man!

One more point I feel I need to make, since you just brought it up...if you are fully convinced that baptism occurred by immersion in the 1st century church (biblical times), who gives us the authority to change that? Remember what God revealed in Revelation:

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. - Revelation 22:18-19

We are commanded to not add nor take away from the words in the bible. By changing the method in which baptism occurred, something has been added. I know it seems that surely God would not send anyone to hell for something like this; however, He told us in the passage above that we will not inherit the holy city if we change His commands. I also think back to the OT...we are told that it was a schoolmaster or tutor for the things that were to come in the NT. Look at how stringent God was with His laws in the OT that pertained to worship and sacrificing...why would He change with His laws for worship and obedience in the NT? Why would He allow us to change things as we deem necessary pertaining to worship and obedience? We say surely He wouldn't send us to hell for something as little as being sprinkled instead of immersed, but He struck Nadab and Abihu dead for offering unauthorized fire. He may not strike us dead on the spot, but I think we can look back at those type things and use it as a shadow of the things to come. I believe we can conclude that It is very displeasing to Him when we do not follow His commands exactly as He has set forth. He may not strike us dead now, but will He strike us dead for eternity by condemning us to Hell? I think those are things we all need to think on and consider.

I fall short too...I'm just trying my best to adhere to His commands as He gave them to the 1st century Christians. Love you, Vol brother! Thanks for the great discussions!
 
#760
#760
OGbabyaviVol said:
Thanks man!

One more point I feel I need to make, since you just brought it up...if you are fully convinced that baptism occurred by immersion in the 1st century church (biblical times), who gives us the authority to change that? Remember what God revealed in Revelation:

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. - Revelation 22:18-19

We are commanded to not add nor take away from the words in the bible. By changing the method in which baptism occurred, something has been added. I know it seems that surely God would not send anyone to hell for something like this; however, He told us in the passage above that we will not inherit the holy city if we change His commands. I also think back to the OT...we are told that it was a schoolmaster or tutor for the things that were to come in the NT. Look at how stringent God was with His laws in the OT that pertained to worship and sacrificing...why would He change with His laws for worship and obedience in the NT? Why would He allow us to change things as we deem necessary pertaining to worship and obedience? We say surely He wouldn't send us to hell for something as little as being sprinkled instead of immersed, but He struck Nadab and Abihu dead for offering unauthorized fire. He may not strike us dead on the spot, but I think we can look back at those type things and use it as a shadow of the things to come. I believe we can conclude that It is very displeasing to Him when we do not follow His commands exactly as He has set forth. He may not strike us dead now, but will He strike us dead for eternity by condemning us to Hell? I think those are things we all need to think on and consider.

I fall short too...I'm just trying my best to adhere to His commands as He gave them to the 1st century Christians. Love you, Vol brother! Thanks for the great discussions!
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Again, I think you are focusing too much on the procedure than the true meaning of what a baptism is. Also, if you take and do what the Bible says to do, you need to sell all your possessions and give away all your money. I mean Christ said to do that.

Mathew 19:21
 
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#762
#762
InVOLuntary said:
Again, I think you are focusing too much on the procedure than the true meaning of what a baptism is. Also, if you take and do what the Bible says to do, you need to sell all your possessions and give away all your money. I mean Christ said to do that.

Mathew 19:21
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I think you missed Jesus' point in that story of the rich young man. His wealth and possessions were his downfall...they were his idol. He wasn't willing to put God first in his life over his wealth. Jesus told him that as a test to see if he was willing to give up everything to follow Jesus. Obviously, he went away very sad, because he wasn't willing to do it. His wealth was more important than God. The same thing can happen to us...we can have idols that we put before God. Obviously, wealth and possessions are not sinful...Abraham and many other faithful people in the Bible were very wealthy. When we put those things before God and make them our idol, then they are sinful. This seems to be the flaw in this young man's life.
 
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#763
#763
Off off-topic,

Has anyone of you ever ordered a storage shed/barn/garage? If so where from? Pleased? Cost-effective?
 
#764
#764
OGbabyaviVol said:
I think you missed Jesus' point in that story of the rich young man. His wealth and possessions were his downfall...they were his idol. He wasn't willing to put God first in his life over his wealth. Jesus told him that as a test to see if he was willing to give up everything to follow Jesus. Obviously, he went away very sad, because he wasn't willing to do it. His wealth was more important than God. The same thing can happen to us...we can have idols that we put before God. Obviously, wealth and possessions are not sinful...Abraham and many other faithful people in the Bible were very wealthy. When we put those things before God and make them our idol, then they are sinful. This seems to be the flaw in this young man's life.
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So you're interpreting Jesus' meaning? Hmmm. I mean it's pretty black and white to me. It doesn't say only rich people. It doesn't say that rich people are ok to keep their stuff if they get baptized and follow the other rules.

That's my point here. You can pick and choose which parts apply. Just as the snake handlers take a verse or two and claim handling snakes is a necessary ritual. I think many Christians, good people get caught up in procedure rather than what the true meaning of the scriptures say, can't see the forest for the trees so to speak. I imagine God saying " Is that what you got out of that?"
 
#767
#767
InVOLuntary said:
So you're interpreting Jesus' meaning? Hmmm. I mean it's pretty black and white to me. It doesn't say only rich people. It doesn't say that rich people are ok to keep their stuff if they get baptized and follow the other rules.

That's my point here. You can pick and choose which parts apply. Just as the snake handlers take a verse or two and claim handling snakes is a necessary ritual. I think many Christians, good people get caught up in procedure rather than what the true meaning of the scriptures say, can't see the forest for the trees so to speak. I imagine God saying " Is that what you got out of that?"
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The first century church sold everything they had and brought the money to Peter and the elders and they all split it up with who had need. Also, annias and sapphire (both probably spelled wrong ) were struck down for holding some back and lying about it. If we are following the first century church to the letter , we would do the same but we don't. It is all his in reality but you can't pick and choose.
 
#768
#768
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Ok..c'mon man. That is just not true. The New Testament is full of do's and don'ts. I'll say this word again...OBEDIENCE. I get, I think, what you are trying to say, but that statement is just not truth the way it is said.
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You're right. But I do believe that that's not the Bibles intent, to give us a list of rights and wrongs. I think if we try to read it that way, it minimizes what Jesus did for us when he conquered works and sin.

But I'm probably being extreme in my phrasing to make my point. I absolutely think holiness should be pursued, and God uses scripture to show us that.

I just don't think it should be read, or thought of as a rule book. It's so much more.
 
#769
#769
Salvation is a relationship and daily community with God. Obedience alone will not get you into heaven. That's not the gospel.
 
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#770
#770
JacketVol said:
The first century church sold everything they had and brought the money to Peter and the elders and they all split it up with who had need. Also, annias and sapphire (both probably spelled wrong ) were struck down for holding some back and lying about it. If we are following the first century church to the letter , we would do the same but we don't. It is all his in reality but you can't pick and choose.
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It pains me to have to agree with your moranic points.
 
#771
#771
seaofORANGE22 said:
You're right. But I do believe that that's not the Bibles intent, to give us a list of rights and wrongs. I think if we try to read it that way, it minimizes what Jesus did for us when he conquered works and sin.

But I'm probably being extreme in my phrasing to make my point. I absolutely think holiness should be pursued, and God uses scripture to show us that.

I just don't think it should be read, or thought of as a rule book. It's so much more.
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You make a lot of good points. So you're saying the devil's really in the details?
 
#772
#772
InVOLuntary said:
You make a lot of good points. So you're saying the devil's really in the details?
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Yeah I think that's exactly where he is. Distracting us all with these silly hand wringing arguments, while we're all missing the beauty of what Jesus actually did for us. He died on a cross for our sins. Our sins. Sins. SINS.

Are people even really believing that if they still think life is about following all the rules?

It's radical really and the freedom it gives is borderline offensive to imagine. We don't deserve that kind of freedom, but it's ours if we believe. Our American minds think we have to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, but thats not the gospel message. We're already up!

So be moved by the work that was already done on your behalf and let it change you!

Also Go Big Orange
 
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#773
#773
JacketVol said:
The first century church sold everything they had and brought the money to Peter and the elders and they all split it up with who had need. Also, annias and sapphire (both probably spelled wrong ) were struck down for holding some back and lying about it. If we are following the first century church to the letter , we would do the same but we don't. It is all his in reality but you can't pick and choose.
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Ananias and Sapphira were struck down, not for not giving all they had, but for conceiving the lie to begin with. They had already planned to tell Peter they had sold their land for the portion they gave to them, all the while knowing they had sold it for more and kept part of it for themselves. Their death was due to the lie, not because they chose to keep a small portion for themselves.

I fully believe we are to help those in need, and we are also to be good stewards of God's money and the things He has given us. I try to help others, especially those I know, when a need arises for them. I still fall short with my benevolence to the needy. However, it was an honor to see the extreme outpouring of benevolence to the 2 cases of need that we saw from this board with Rich and Ashlee...awesome stuff that I don't think I will forget!
 
#774
#774
seaofORANGE22 said:
Yeah I think that's exactly where he is. Distracting us all with these silly hand wringing arguments, while we're all missing the beauty of what Jesus actually did for us. He died on a cross for our sins. Our sins. Sins. SINS.

Are people even really believing that if they still think life is about following all the rules?

It's radical really and the freedom it gives is borderline offensive to imagine. We don't deserve that kind of freedom, but it's ours if we believe. Our American minds think we have to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, but thats not the gospel message. We're already up!

So be moved by the work that was already done on your behalf and let it change you!

Also Go Big Orange
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Thanks for your insight. Back at you on the GBO!
 
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