Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

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#726
#726
InVOLuntary said:
I was baptized just not up to your standards. It may not say specifically that being sprinkled is ok but it doesn't say it's not an acceptable form either. You are missing the whole point of baptism getting caught up on procedure. With all due respect imo that's as bad as not getting baptized. I find it very hard to believe when I meet my maker he says "InVOLuntary, you've done the best that I could have expected of you but I'm sorry, you're going to have to spend the rest of eternity in hell because you were sprinkled. I know that when you were baptized, your heart was where it needed to be but we have strict rules here. Sorry but, bye".

This is precisely why you see churches moving from denominational affiliation. It's a concerning and presumptuous way to teach Jesus. And, I say that as a Methodist which has more "methods" than about any church.
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We are in agreement on this. I have been at the same Methodist Church for 32 years- from a very young child to now my children. These are things that people are going to disagree about, and I have no problem with that. I think there are many reasons why churches sprinkle for baptism, and one is that it is practical. Even though I wasn't baptized as an infant, another is infant baptism. I have chosen to baptize all 3 of my kids as infants, and they won't be submerged. To me, it is just different methods of reaching the same goal. I feel like this is deja vu because it seems like these things have been discussed.
 
#728
#728
Ace said:
I apologize. I was referring only to Acts 10. I will have look at Acts 22 more closely, but washing away your sins may be grammatical connected to calling on the name of the Lord and not be baptized. I will check it out this week.
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No worries.

I hope all of us involved in this discussion are willing to open the Bible and search for the answers found within. And if found, we must change our lives to fit what is written instead of what is written to fit our lives.

May God bless us all in the search for His Wisdom and Truth.
 
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#729
#729
VolGee4 said:
We are in agreement on this. I have been at the same Methodist Church for 32 years- from a very young child to now my children. These are things that people are going to disagree about, and I have no problem with that. I think there are many reasons why churches sprinkle for baptism, and one is that it is practical. Even though I wasn't baptized as an infant, another is infant baptism. I have chosen to baptize all 3 of my kids as infants, and they won't be submerged. To me, it is just different methods of reaching the same goal. I feel like this is deja vu because it seems like these things have been discussed.
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Ding ding ding
 
#730
#730
seaofORANGE22 said:
So do you interpret this that you have to keep all of His commandments in order to get into heaven?
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I think we should try our best. We will fail of course to be perfect. But we should strive for it ((Matt 5:48). But as I mentioned earlier, if we walk in the light as He is in the light then his blood cleanses us of our sins. And if we are willing to confess our wrong to Him, He will forgive us. (1 John 1:6-10)

Grace grace grace. I need tons of it.
 
#731
#731
volssam said:
I think we should try our best. We will fail of course to be perfect. But we should strive for it ((Matt 5:48). But as I mentioned earlier, if we walk in the light as He is in the light then his blood cleanses us of our sins. And if we are willing to confess our wrong to Him, He will forgive us. (1 John 1:6-10)

Grace grace grace. I need tons of it.
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You and me both brother
 
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#733
#733
Catbone said:
Are there actually different levels of heaven and hell?
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doc explained the Catholic belief of Purgatory.

Depending on interpretation, there may be a place believers go called Paradise (thief on the Cross) before they receive their new bodies after Christ returns to establish his kingdom. By contrast the rich man who did not help the poor, dying Lazarus and who observed him in Paradise (Heaven) being ushered into Abraham's presence by angels learned when he also died that he could not cross over to the good side from Hades where he suffered. Hades seems to exist as the place for all non-believers until the final judgment and being cast into Hell. Some view Hades and Hell interchangeably.

Some believers interpret that when believers die they "sleep" until the appointed time when they will be resurrected from physical death. Others believe that their souls/spirits are immediately in the presence of the Lord upon physical death in this world.

I believe I will go immediately into the Lord's presence per scripture from Paul in II Corinthians and Philippians. If that belief is wrong, I will be happy to sleep until the appointed time. I just want to be with him.
 
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#734
#734
volssam said:
John 14:15
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Out of respect for you and OG, I'm not taking this any further. No where in the bible does it state that you must be immersed for a baptism to count. You chooseto interpret the bible to your set beliefs and are judgmental to others that interpret differently. That is wrong IMO. I'll refrain from judging you for your differences in opinions because I think that is God's job as stated in the bible. :hi:
 
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#735
#735
volssam said:
I keep saying this, so I don't know if it is getting looked over or missed or not understood or ignored.

I agree. You must believe to be saved. Belief that leads to baptism. Just as it did in acts 16.

This is what I don't get. If there is a verse that says what we must do to be saved, we must pay attention. If there are multiple verses that say different things about what to do to be saved, we must pay attention.

There are verses that only say we must believe to be saved.

There are verses that only say we must repent to be saved.

There are verses that only say confession leads to salvation

There are verses that only mention baptism for salvation.

And there are verses on different occasions that talk about a mixture of the above.

So to me the safe and obvious answer is they all are required for salvation.

But at the center of it is having the right heart that has an obedient and sincere faith in God and his grace and in Jesus as his Son with saving power.
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I am not trying to doubt your sincerity. I enjoy these discussions. We all have much to learn.
IMO, repentance and faith are the most misunderstood. Biblically they are one and the same. A person cannot truly turn to Christ (faith) unless they first turn from sin and self (repentance).

I am not against believer's baptism, in fact I doubt anyone's sincerity who will not be immersed. I simply believe extremism has perverted the true meaning of baptism. Some have made baptism a ritual and some have attributed to baptism regenative power. Instead baptism was and still should be a public declaration of our faith in Christ. In the 1st century baptism was a public breaking away from Judaism and paganism with immersion picturing our death in Christ to sin, self, and our old life and with being raised picturing our resurrection in Christ to His new life in us.
 
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#736
#736
InVOLuntary said:
Out of respect for you and OG, I'm not taking this any further. No where in the bible does it state that you must be immersed for a baptism to count. You chooseto interpret the bible to your set beliefs and are judgmental to others that interpret differently. That is wrong IMO. I'll refrain from judging you for your differences in opinions because I think that is God's job as stated in the bible. :hi:
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I really hope you don't think I was being hard-hearted and judgmental. I apologize if I came across that way. I only want to go by what the Bible says and that's it. As I think we all should. And that's what I've been trying to communicate. I apologize if you or anyone else took it the wrong way. I am trying to teach the truth in love. Apologies if I failed. Much love to you, my Vol brother.

I hate when people think ill of me or that I have done wrong. So please forgive me if you think I have been judgmental. There is only one Judge. I am only trying to seek His Truth.
 
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#737
#737
volssam said:
Ananias did tell him to be baptized. Acts 22:16. Paul is re-telling the story of his conversion. It is three days after his belief/faith on the road to Damascus. And his sins were
Not forgiven through faith. Only baptism.
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so we just forget justification by faith
 
#738
#738
InVOLuntary said:
Out of respect for you and OG, I'm not taking this any further. No where in the bible does it state that you must be immersed for a baptism to count. You chooseto interpret the bible to your set beliefs and are judgmental to others that interpret differently. That is wrong IMO. I'll refrain from judging you for your differences in opinions because I think that is God's job as stated in the bible. :hi:
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Which was in my long winded post that stated the evidence of sanctified lives of believers regardless of baptism method. He wants our hearts. All the rest flows from the heart decision for him. I chose immersion partly due to the church beliefs of where I accepted salvation as well as because that was how Jesus did it. However, I see no justification to deny others another method.

I see that evidence in you and many others on here that have differing beliefs about the details. Once we understand a fellow believer has been sanctified (set apart, made holy by Christ, etc) it settles the issue as far as I am concerned. As far I am concerned it's just great that our works are not what saves us. Thankfully - or I would be in deep doo doo. :)
 
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#739
#739
volssam said:
I really hope you don't think I was being hard-hearted and judgmental. I apologize if I came across that way. I only want to go by what the Bible says and that's it. As I think we all should. And that's what I've been trying to communicate. I apologize if you or anyone else took it the wrong way. I am trying to teach the truth in love. Apologies if I failed. Much love to you brother.

I hate when people think ill of me or that I have done wrong. So please forgive me if you think I have been judgmental. There is only one Judge. I am only trying to seek His Truth.
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Sam, I respect you and OG more than you know. Compared to me you both are young and it puts a smile on my face to see both of you so dedicated to Christ. I was similar to you both when I was your age. I thought that there was a strict guideline as to the path to righteousness. Anyone who strayed was going to hell in a hand basket. As I've aged I personally have come to see what I feel is the big picture. I believe that the path to heaven is becoming as Christ like as I can. I want homosexuals, drug adicts, thieves, and prostitutes in church. I want them to experience Christ not from being told what's going to happen if they don't change their ways but for them to witness the joy that comes from serving Jesus. Sometimes we get caught up in journey, the procedure when the destination should be our focus. That does not mean that I think you live free and disregard morals, it means be more Christ like.

Now if I do that and when I meet Jesus and am denied heaven because my baptism didn't meet some standard then so be it. But, I personally believe that won't be the case.
 
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#740
#740
The work of the cross and the sacrifice is what bridged the gap between God and man that had been made since the original sin. Anything regardless of what it is that is put in a position in place of the cross for redemption is just not a place to be in my opinion. I am stepping out for good. I hope the links I put in a previous post was actually looked at by OG and Sam. I think it is more digging than just a superficial read. If you are opened to truth, then it will not hurt you to read it be it truth or not.
 
#742
#742
I feel like I have used Bible for every one of my points.

I hope we all can read the Bible and study it and its purpose for us all.

Please disregard any teaching from parent/teacher/preacher/friend about anything, not just baptism, unless it is found in the Bible. Its not about what man thinks is best or how man thinks it should be. It's about what the Bible says about it. End of story, in my view.

And the NT as a whole. Not a verse here and there.

If we can't back up something in our beliefs with Scripture, we should seriously re-evaluate it.
 
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#743
#743
InVOLuntary said:
Sam, I respect you and OG more than you know. Compared to me you both are young and it puts a smile on my face to see both of you so dedicated to Christ. I was similar to you both when I was your age. I thought that there was a strict guideline as to the path to righteousness. Anyone who strayed was going to hell in a hand basket. As I've aged I personally have come to see what I feel is the big picture. I believe that the path to heaven is becoming as Christ like as I can. I want homosexuals, drug adicts, thieves, and prostitutes in church. I want them to experience Christ not from being told what's going to happen if they don't change their ways but for them to witness the joy that comes from serving Jesus. Sometimes we get caught up in journey, the procedure when the destination should be our focus. That does not mean that I think you live free and disregard morals, it means be more Christ like.

Now if I do that and when I meet Jesus and am denied heaven because my baptism didn't meet some standard then so be it. But, I personally believe that won't be the case.
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I don't think I even mentioned hell in any of my posts.

Although i will say verses like Matthew 7:13-14, where it says many will find destruction and few will find life, give me pause and actually trouble me. It is scary.

And even more startling is a little later in that chapter, in verses 21-23. Where it appears many will be lost on the Day of Judgment that actually thought they were doing what's right in His name. Yet He will say to them depart from me I know you not. That is scary, especially for someone with OCD like me. Haha.
That's why I think it's extremely vital that we all assess and make sure we are doing His Will correctly. You and me and all of us.

In the end I hope we all get as much grace and mercy as necessary. But we must try our best to seek The Way/Truth/Life while we have the chance.
 
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#744
#744
volssam said:
I don't think I even mentioned hell in any of my posts.

Although i will say verses like Matthew 7:13-14, where it says many will find destruction and few will find life, give me pause and actually trouble me. It is scary.

And even more startling is a little later in that chapter, in verses 21-23. Where it appears many will be lost on the Day of Judgment that actually thought they were doing what's right in His name. Yet He will say to them depart from me I know you not. That is scary, especially for someone with OCD like me. Haha.
That's why I think it's extremely vital that we all assess and make sure we are doing His Will correctly. You and me and all of us.

In the end I hope we all get as much grace and mercy as necessary. But we must try our best to seek The Way/Truth/Life while we have the chance.
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You didn't say I was going to hell but you and OG said you couldn't get to heaven unless you were immersed. What's the difference in telling someone you're not going to heaven than telling them you're going to hell? I mean it's really an either/or scenario.
 
#746
#746
InVOLuntary said:
You didn't say I was going to hell but you and OG said you couldn't get to heaven unless you were immersed. What's the difference in telling someone you're not going to heaven than telling them you're going to hell? I mean it's really an either/or scenario.
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I'm not sure I ever said that, especially something so harsh as that. I did say I believe the Bible teaches that baptism is the point at which we access Jesus's saving blood. And I gave Scripture to back up my belief.

I know for sure I can save no one. And that none of us can save anyone. Water can save no one. Only God can. The question is how does He tell us to respond to His offer of salvation to receive it. I ask that we all use the Bible for that answer and the Bible only.

As far as the sprinkle vs immersion thing I never once mentioned it so far, I am pretty sure. But since you are lumping me into it, I again just ask that you go back to the Bible and go back to the original language to find the meaning of baptism. As OG mentioned, baptizo means immersion. It's not what I am saying or what OG is saying. It's simply about what the Bible says.

Now, Will we all get to the Judgment Day and God accept everyone who tried? And everyone who attempted any sort of baptism? That's for Him to decide. I hope He does accept it. If it was me doing the deciding and judging, I believe I would accept it and anyone who tried. But i am not and will never be the judge. And so all we can go on is what He has revealed to us. And with something so important, so eternal, why risk doing anything different at all?
 
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#747
#747
A lot of good discussion on here the last day or two. Tomorrow is the Lord's Day. May everyone have a blessed one.

Again please forgive me if I offended anyone. I only want us all, myself included, to seek out and live by the truth.

Good night and Go Vols!
 
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#748
#748
You can spend your entire life combing over every detail trying to figure out if you got it all right to make sure you get your reward... Or you can let go of all that pressure and believe that Jesus already accomplished it and set you free. Seek closeness with God, pursue community with Him and He will change you. Perfection is out of our reach and ultimately unattainable. If we spend our lives pursuing it we'll burn out and find ourselves drowning in guilt and shame. It will never be enough.

Jesus paid it all
All to Him I owe
Sin had left a crimson stain
He washed it white as snow

This discussion has definitely got my wheels turning. Love it. I'm fired up to go to church tomorrow.
 
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