Recruiting Forum Football Talk VI

[volbeast33]

Late to the Hyatt discussion. Wasn’t devante smith used same way as Jalin? If I remember correctly most of devantes catches were go, slant, come backs. He was praised. Tyreek hill has made a living off of just being fast. Who cares about a route tree? Those are things athletes can learn.

You can run whatever you want if you run a 4.29.

 

[UTProf]

You can run whatever you want if you run a 4.29.

Well, unless you're CP. Love the guy but learning routes were his kryptonite. And I honestly do believe he tried to learn them - just couldn't get it.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I’m a vol fan so I could be biased, but I think they don’t get the questions because if you watch them play, they look like they would be successful anywhere. Tillman was mossing guys and dragging DBs down the field, and he has prototypical size. Wright stonewalled everybody and is huge.

On tape, Hyatt looks like a burner who is constantly running wide open dude to scheme. I don’t recall him jumping over guys or making crazy contested catches like Tillman. I think it’s fair to wonder if he would have put up those same numbers in a scheme that didn’t have him wide open all the time.

I mean if that was the case and it was truly JUST scheme why didn't every WR here have the sort of space that Hyatt did?

I don't think the scheme is the only factor in his success. It puts defenses in man to man with less help and Hyatt simply took advantage and burnt his man more often than any other WR UT has had the last two seasons. He also did that with Tillman banged up and missing big chunks of the season, so he WAS the guy and still managed to dominate.

5 catches or more in 9 of 12 games
50 yards or more in 11 of 12 games
caught a TD in 7 of 12 games

Tillman only appeared in 6 of those 12 games too. So it's not like the Bama game was simply a fluke when teams saw what he did to them and then he still roasted Kentucky and Missouri and would have also torched Vandy if he had played more than the first couple series before playing it safe.

I do think his games against Georgia and South Carolina (both on the road) hurt his draft stock though. But based on the draft Hyatt and the Vols WRs weren't just putting up numbers against bad teams.

Bama = 3 safeties drafted
Georgia = 1 CB & 1 Safety drafted
Kentucky = 1 CB drafted
LSU = 1 CB & 1 Safety drafted
Pittsburgh = 2 safeties drafted
South Carolina = 2 CBs drafted

Still went in the top 100 picks, but had Hyatt's goal been to maximize draft stock he would have torched Clemson and left no doubt. His combine was damn good, even if he ONLY ran a 4.40 in his 1 attempt so not sure he could have done anything else.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

@Enki_Amenra Sally?

Haha, she's shy. She starts writing the story, then erases it and asks to talk about something different.
@nicksjuzunk
The story went on about how big his neck got and how he sacrificed everything, losing his wife, his job, his kids . . . then for some reason she deleted it before I could get a screen shot of the rest of the story.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Late to the Hyatt discussion. Wasn’t devante smith used same way as Jalin? If I remember correctly most of devantes catches were go, slant, come backs. He was praised. Tyreek hill has made a living off of just being fast. Who cares about a route tree? Those are things athletes can learn.

Not a great comparison... DeVonta played 4 years and 3 of his seasons he went over 600 yards... his last 2 years he went over 1200 yards and caught 14 TDs or more and his Heisman winning season he went for 1856 and 23 TDs.

 

[drvenner]

the indented area that were obviously stitched look ironed on?

Or are you just being difficult?

Yes.

 

[drvenner]

the indented area that were obviously stitched look ironed on?

Or are you just being difficult?

Seriously, very sharp looking. Also glad you are going to talk to your son about Hendon.

 

[UTProf]

Haha, she's shy. She starts writing the story, then erases it and asks to talk about something different.
@nicksjuzunk
The story went on about how big his neck got and how he sacrificed everything, losing his wife, his job, his kids . . . then for some reason she deleted it before I could get a screen shot of the rest of the story.


View attachment 550685View attachment 550686View attachment 550687

Sally has abandoned us midway through the tale!

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Well, unless you're CP. Love the guy but learning routes were his kryptonite. And I honestly do believe he tried to learn them - just couldn't get it.

CP's biggest issues was he got 1 year with Dooley's dumbass and Bray, 0 development or teaching happened and then he was just too good at being a return man, so the Vikings, Raiders, Patriots and Bears all seemed content with letting him focus on that and not utilize him much at all in their offenses.

Atlanta is the first team to really take advantage of his skillset in their offense and it's the first time he's gotten more than 90 touches on offense in a season for his long career. Sadly he's now 32 and it's a bit late to expect big numbers anymore. Had he started his career with a team utilizing him better like the Falcons have these past 2 seasons I think he would have developed a lot more as a WR or RB.

 

[TheRain]

 

[ugg]

Haha, she's shy. She starts writing the story, then erases it and asks to talk about something different.
@nicksjuzunk
The story went on about how big his neck got and how he sacrificed everything, losing his wife, his job, his kids . . . then for some reason she deleted it before I could get a screen shot of the rest of the story.


View attachment 550685View attachment 550686View attachment 550687

Maybe she can finish it necks week

 

[mrmax86]

He will be 97 at their high school graduation

 

[Volsdeep4]

Not a great comparison... DeVonta played 4 years and 3 of his seasons he went over 600 yards... his last 2 years he went over 1200 yards and caught 14 TDs or more and his Heisman winning season he went for 1856 and 23 TDs.

Same skill set is what I’m saying. Bunch of routes to get him open cuz of speed. Not Jalin fault he didn’t get thrown the ball 117 times like DeVonta . Jalin had 67 catches.

 

[therickbol]

So in summary they are a holes.

I thought that was implied when it was stated that they were 'from New York'

 

[UTProf]

OMG one of the twitter comments was this: In Italian De Niro means "Nick Cannon." lmao.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Same skill set is what I’m saying. Bunch of routes to get him open cuz of speed. Not Jalin fault he didn’t get thrown the ball 117 times like DeVonta . Jalin had 67 catches.

I mean they're the same build, and hopefully Jalin has the sort of start to his NFL career than DeVonta has...but DeVonta was a lot more productive for longer than Jalin so it's hard to say they are the same skill set.

235 catches for almost 4k yards and 46 TDs vs 108 receptions for 1769 yards and 19 TDs

DeVonta's senior season he surpassed Jalin's career stats in every category.

I will say DeVonta may have actually prevented his draft stock from being hurt by his combine though, he was banged up and didn't do any drills while there. So no clue how fast he would have ran a laser timed 40 in.

They are similar WRs in build and ability, DeVonta though had way more tape and production and at least on film showed in his time with Bama to be more than just a scheme/speed got him open guy. Sark also ran a more pro-style spread, and that's the 2 years DeVonta produced the most during.

 

[UTProf]

CP's biggest issues was he got 1 year with Dooley's dumbass and Bray, 0 development or teaching happened and then he was just too good at being a return man, so the Vikings, Raiders, Patriots and Bears all seemed content with letting him focus on that and not utilize him much at all in their offenses.

Atlanta is the first team to really take advantage of his skillset in their offense and it's the first time he's gotten more than 90 touches on offense in a season for his long career. Sadly he's now 32 and it's a bit late to expect big numbers anymore. Had he started his career with a team utilizing him better like the Falcons have these past 2 seasons I think he would have developed a lot more as a WR or RB.

While I agree that he got no real time/development here, the Vikings tried very hard to develop CP and CP went through all the extra training they gave him. He just couldn't 'get' what was being asked of him. After it took 4 NFL teams to realize he was never going to get being a traditional WR, the Falcons finally used him in a more non-traditional way. CP got stuck on returns though only after the Vikings had tried everything they could to turn him into an NFL WR. CP tried too. It just wasn't to be.

I agree that had he landed at a team that was more willing to change for him (instead of the other way around) then he'd have had a much better NFL career but I'm glad that he's finally getting his due now.

 

[DeepPurpleFloyd]

Haha, she's shy. She starts writing the story, then erases it and asks to talk about something different.
@nicksjuzunk
The story went on about how big his neck got and how he sacrificed everything, losing his wife, his job, his kids . . . then for some reason she deleted it before I could get a screen shot of the rest of the story.


View attachment 550685View attachment 550686View attachment 550687

Nicksjuzunk's neck continued to grow and eventually the skin on his neck hardened (insert TWSS joke here) until he was able to use it as a weapon. He was known to threaten dorky gym bros who tucked their sweatpants into their socks with his protruding neck. Subsequently, he gave up his machete and, after showing a den of cobras how his neck was disproprotianately larger than their hoods, to all their amazement, he went all Exorcist mode, spinning his head 360 degrees and using his neck to decapitate the entire den. Next he set his sights on shutting down all Artificial Intelligence systems, threatening to use his giant neck to destroy all power grids across the globe unless they stopped making fun of his grossly enlarged neck.
Sorry, I can't continue this conversation ....

- Sally

 

[UTProf]

^^I figured the Cobras would've accepted him as one of their own.

 

[StanfordVol]

I mean if that was the case and it was truly JUST scheme why didn't every WR here have the sort of space that Hyatt did?

I don't think the scheme is the only factor in his success. It puts defenses in man to man with less help and Hyatt simply took advantage and burnt his man more often than any other WR UT has had the last two seasons. He also did that with Tillman banged up and missing big chunks of the season, so he WAS the guy and still managed to dominate.

5 catches or more in 9 of 12 games
50 yards or more in 11 of 12 games
caught a TD in 7 of 12 games

Tillman only appeared in 6 of those 12 games too. So it's not like the Bama game was simply a fluke when teams saw what he did to them and then he still roasted Kentucky and Missouri and would have also torched Vandy if he had played more than the first couple series before playing it safe.

I do think his games against Georgia and South Carolina (both on the road) hurt his draft stock though. But based on the draft Hyatt and the Vols WRs weren't just putting up numbers against bad teams.

Bama = 3 safeties drafted
Georgia = 1 CB & 1 Safety drafted
Kentucky = 1 CB drafted
LSU = 1 CB & 1 Safety drafted
Pittsburgh = 2 safeties drafted
South Carolina = 2 CBs drafted

Still went in the top 100 picks, but had Hyatt's goal been to maximize draft stock he would have torched Clemson and left no doubt. His combine was damn good, even if he ONLY ran a 4.40 in his 1 attempt so not sure he could have done anything else.

I don’t know enough about the technicalities of our offense to address a lot of your points. But as to why he is so wide open, if it’s not at least partially due to scheme, then what is it? His 40 time at the combine wasn’t unusually fast. Everybody knew he was a major target. I think having Bru/Ramel/Tillman/Squirrel helped him too. That’s a lot for a defense to focus on.

I don’t think he has been disrespected, and I think the 3rd round was about right for him. Hopefully his skill set translates to the NFL and he tears it up.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

While I agree that he got no real time/development here, the Vikings tried very hard to develop CP and CP went through all the extra training they gave him. He just couldn't 'get' what was being asked of him. After it took 4 NFL teams to realize he was never going to get being a traditional WR, the Falcons finally used him in a more non-traditional way. CP got stuck on returns though only after the Vikings had tried everything they could to turn him into an NFL WR. CP tried too. It just wasn't to be.

I agree that had he landed at a team that was more willing to change for him (instead of the other way around) then he'd have had a much better NFL career but I'm glad that he's finally getting his due now.

I think CP's inability to make catches was his downfall in Minnesota because he was -the- guy immediately as their kick returner (his rookie season being the most returns and yards he had in a year for his career).

Catch % by year
1st year 58.4%
2nd year 49.3%

His 3rd year he only had 2 targets/catches. By year 4 he had turned a corner and had a 74.3% with 52 catches, but Stefon Diggs, Adam Thielen & Kyle Rudolph were all leading the way in receptions and CP was at the end of his rookie contract so they moved on from him.

To his credit though CP has kept a catch % over 64 every year since and it's only been below 70% in two seasons. Now I can't say I've watched every play of every season to see what his route running is like so I'm sure it's a factor. But poor route running or not it has always appeared like he just lacked many chances. Had he gotten the Deebo type of treatment early in his career I think his production would be on a whole different level.

Still CP will go down as one of the best kick returners to ever play and he's sitting 74th in all purpose yards for a career right now because of it.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I don’t know enough about the technicalities of our offense to address a lot of your points. But as to why he is so wide open, if it’s not at least partially due to scheme, then what is it? His 40 time at the combine wasn’t unusually fast. Everybody knew he was a major target. I think having Bru/Ramel/Tillman/Squirrel helped him too. That’s a lot for a defense to focus on.

I don’t think he has been disrespected, and I think the 3rd round was about right for him. Hopefully his skill set translates to the NFL and he tears it up.

My point is that JaVonta Payton, Cedric Tillman, Velus Jones Jr, Squirrel White, Ramel Keyton, Jimmy Holiday, Jimmy Calloway have all been here as well. Velus even clocked a faster 40 time of 4.31 and NONE of them have had the ability to get open as often and consistent as Hyatt did this past season and he didn't have the same sort of benefit of having a known playmaker opposite him every game.

So even if it is scheme why is it only him? I think it has more to do with Hyatt than just he's in a scheme that gets him open. He's obviously a freak athlete, he showed that at the combine. He's obviously a hard worker, he put in more work on the jugs machine than anyone else before the season started.

The scheme allows the talent to showcase their talent, but it does not and will not create talent where it doesn't already exist and work for itself.

 

[Volsdeep4]

.

I mean they're the same build, and hopefully Jalin has the sort of start to his NFL career than DeVonta has...but DeVonta was a lot more productive for longer than Jalin so it's hard to say they are the same skill set.

235 catches for almost 4k yards and 46 TDs vs 108 receptions for 1769 yards and 19 TDs

DeVonta's senior season he surpassed Jalin's career stats in every category.

I will say DeVonta may have actually prevented his draft stock from being hurt by his combine though, he was banged up and didn't do any drills while there. So no clue how fast he would have ran a laser timed 40 in.

They are similar WRs in build and ability, DeVonta though had way more tape and production and at least on film showed in his time with Bama to be more than just a scheme/speed got him open guy. Sark also ran a more pro-style spread, and that's the 2 years DeVonta produced the most during.

You’re thinking too much into it. They have the same skill set. They are open on verts, post, slants, bubbles, screens, and comebacks etc. that’s starting to sound like a route tree huh? that’s what I’m saying. DeVonta was highly regarded but Jalin is not because of Alabama.
Jalin played in Gumps prehistoric offense his first 2 years not on the all star team.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

.

You’re thinking too much into it. They have the same skill set. They are open on verts, post, slants, bubbles, screens, etc. that’s what I’m saying. DeVonta was highly regarded but Jalin is not because of Alabama.
Jalin played in Gumps prehistoric offense his first 2 years not on the all star team.

I would say you're thinking too much. It's not a conspiracy. If you're comparing the two outta college Hyatt would never be taken before DeVonta by anyone objectively.

Jalin also only played under Pruitt for 1 season, not 2.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Seriously, very sharp looking. Also glad you are going to talk to your son about Hendon.

and my girls.