questioning faith

[armchair]

It's all nonsense, people--"god," religion, prayer. Yea, it makes a lot of people feel better at times and cope with their mortality, but it is quite obviously nonsense. "god" is an utterly absurd concept. Religious folk believe that "god" is omnipotent--but it's a very selective omnipotence, right? Hence we get all the people who want to pray to "god" to help people facing hardship or struggle of one kind or another--"prayers for the people of Florida as Hurricane Irma approaches!" So "god" is supposed to help people whom "god" has chosen to hurt, yes? That quite obviously makes no sense. It's all silliness meant to cope with the harsh reality of end of life. People /want/ to believe--and so they do. Where religion becomes a problem is when religious leaders want to mix their silly views with politics and greed--the constant dunning of old people for money by disreputable preachers and TV evangelists, of which there are many; the Falwells and others who are always saying stupid things, like the Southern baptist leader who recently proclaimed that "god" created national borders, a patently idiotic statement. When people go around proclaiming what some nonexistent entity is supposed to "believe," you've got a seriously backward country.

 

[n_huffhines]

No, you've missed the point. You guys want proof that something exist but jump to conclusions simply based on odds. You're critical of me using faith when you are doing the same thing, "The universe is so large, that there has to be another planet that supports life and thus humans are not unigue." You are rolling the dice as much as anyone. You just think you're correct because it fits into a text book.

How on earth is that rolling dice? I have literally never done anything about the thought that there is life on other planets.

Saying "the odds are _______." And leaving it at that is a problem for you?

 

[PKT_VOL]

No, you've missed the point. You guys want proof that something exist but jump to conclusions simply based on odds. You're critical of me using faith when you are doing the same thing, "The universe is so large, that there has to be another planet that supports life and thus humans are not unigue." You are rolling the dice as much as anyone. You just think you're correct because it fits into a text book.

1) You guys? Who is you guys? Just, me, myself, and I.

2) I haven't commented on anything other than very specifically what you posted in that one post. I've intentionally refrained from such in this thread and other posts of yours.

However, based on this post, it is obvious you are defensive (about other things which I haven't commented on) and not actually talking about what you orginally stated. I guess there is no need to continue; I'll leave you to attack your strawman.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Pray for a life that is saved - God exists and he answers prayers.

Pray for a life that is not saved - it's all part of God's plan.

Prayer for hurricane to calm down works - God answers prayers.

Prayer for hurricane to calm down doesn't work - it's a trial of our faith and an opportunity to help others.

No life on other planets - because God.

Life on other planets - He made that planet too.

Let's be honest, He can't lose.

The dude can't miss. As NBA Jam would say, he's heating up, he's on fire!

On a serious note, as Popper would say, it's an unfalsifiable concept. Partly where it draws its strength from.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Roust - How is math evidence of God's mind?

 

[InVOLuntary]

1) You guys? Who is you guys? Just, me, myself, and I.

2) I haven't commented on anything other than very specifically what you posted in that one post. I've intentionally refrained from such in this thread and other posts of yours.

However, based on this post, it is obvious you are defensive (about other things which I haven't commented on) and not actually talking about what you orginally stated. I guess there is no need to continue; I'll leave you to attack your strawman.

I apologize if I mischaracterized your stance. You guys was meant to portray the same crap that is spewed by atheist. They all go back to it's your job to prove the existence of God, when we all know that is impossible. It's a lazy argument. As I stated earlier, we all have the same evidence to look at. I chose to believe that the evidence points to a higher power. You, evidently chose to believe the evidence doesn't support that.

These discussions always lead to the same destination. So in that regard, you're probably right in that there is no need to continue it.

 

[InVOLuntary]

How on earth is that rolling dice? I have literally never done anything about the thought that there is life on other planets.

Saying "the odds are _______." And leaving it at that is a problem for you?

Why am I not surprised that you would have trouble with this?

 

[PKT_VOL]

Roust - How is math evidence of God's mind?

Immaterial intelligibility.

 

[n_huffhines]

Why am I not surprised that you would have trouble with this?

This is not an answer

 

[Wafflestomper]

I've explained my position. You and I both have the same evidence to look at. Neither one of us can prove our point definitively. We have to look at the evidence around us and come up with a conclusion that makes sense to us. I just find the likelihood that our existence is not one of evolution from some ancient soup that formed a protein to a single cell organism to humans today, highly unlikely. It all points to a higher power to me.



Surely you can do better than this.

How much more evidence do you have for the existence of your personal diety than for the existence of unicorns or the FSM?

 

[PKT_VOL]

I apologize if I mischaracterized your stance. You guys was meant to portray the same crap that is spewed by atheist. They all go back to it's your job to prove the existence of God, when we all know that is impossible. It's a lazy argument. As I stated earlier, we all have the same evidence to look at. I chose to believe that the evidence points to a higher power. You, evidently chose to believe the evidence doesn't support that.

These discussions always lead to the same destination. So in that regard, you're probably right in that there is no need to continue it.

Again, this doesn't have anything to do with what I commented on.

But, for the record, I'm not an atheist and asking for the positive proposition proponents to state their case isn't lazy.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Again, this doesn't have anything to do with what I commented on.

But, for the record, I'm not an atheist and asking for the positive proposition proponents to state their case isn't lazy.

Never said you were an atheist. No one in the history of earth has proved the existence of God. Reverting to the "It's not my job to disprove God" is lazy but that's just my opinion.

 

[InVOLuntary]

How much more evidence do you have for the existence of your personal diety than for the existence of unicorns or the FSM?

Ok. You keep doing you.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Sorry, no offense, but you're absolutely, 100% wrong. There is an order to everything. From what we know now, there is zero evidence that another planet exist like earth where intelligent life exist, despite astronomical odds. Hell, we can't even find a planet to this point that can definitively support any life. Sorry if it doesn't fit in your neat little box.


And, I'll add, neither of us can prove our point one way or another. We each choose to look at the evidence and form an opinion. I choose to look at the evidence and say a master's hand is at work. You choose to look at the evidence and conclude that this is all happenstance, one big huge soup that evolved into what is today. I'm good with mine as I'm sure you are with yours.

We also have not explored an estimated 96% of space. I really dont have any doubt there is life somewhere else. I believe they've visited Earth and the government has covered it up. Because then we would have to answer the question of who created them? Or did they perhaps create us?

 

[InVOLuntary]

This is not an answer

If you can't see the correlation between saying there has to be life on other planets because of odds and rolling the dice I'm not sure what else I can say. Scientist have "faith " there are other earth like planets because they believe that the odds point to that. They can't fathom that amongst billions of stars and associated planets, that earth is the only one that can support intelligent life. They have to take a leap of faith, belief in something that there isn't proof of. Do you not see the parallel?

 

[InVOLuntary]

We also have not explored an estimated 96% of space. I really dont have any doubt there is life somewhere else. I believe they've visited Earth and the government has covered it up. Because then we would have to answer the question of who created them? Or did they perhaps create us?

Your theory holds as much validity as mine, and you're certainly free to believe it.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

If you can't see the correlation between saying there has to be life on other planets because of odds and rolling the dice I'm not sure what else I can say. Scientist have "faith " there are other earth like planets because they believe that the odds point to that. They can't fathom that amongst billions of stars and associated planets, that earth is the only one that can support intelligent life. They have to take a leap of faith, belief in something that there isn't proof of. Do you not see the parallel?

Actually there is some evidence of alien vistors.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Never said you were an atheist. No one in the history of earth has proved the existence of God. Reverting to the "It's not my job to disprove God" is lazy but that's just my opinion.

Implied not said.

That's simply how propositions work. It has nothing to do with being lazy.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Sometimes we get caught up in all the philosophy of it all when really it boils down to looking at what science has proven, not theorized, and form an opinion. Like i said in my original post, I believe this world is so unique and so perfect that I have to believe it's not just anomaly. Sure statistically we've only seen a fraction of what's floating around us but you'd think we'd found something at least similar within our current view of the universe. Every time one of these things earth like planets are discovered they always (at least since I've read up on it, maybe they've found more. It's been a while) they always come back with no, couldn't support life.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Implied not said.

That's simply how propositions work. It has nothing to do with being lazy.

I didn't imply anything. You took it wrong.

Those are the rules set forth by the scientific community. Not my rules. It is lazy.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Sometimes we get caught up in all the philosophy of it all when really it boils down to looking at what science has proven, not theorized, and form an opinion. Like i said in my original post, I believe this world is so unique and so perfect that I have to believe it's not just anomaly. Sure statistically we've only seen a fraction of what's floating around us but you'd think we'd found something at least similar within our current view of the universe. Every time one of these things earth like planets are discovered they always (at least since I've read up on it, maybe they've found more. It's been a while) they always come back with no, couldn't support life.

It would seem so. They have a slew of candidates. Hell, there's a decent shot Mars has/had life. We won't know until we have explored, extensively, the entire planet. We haven't even done such on Earth.

Also, it seems your idea of life is fairly narrow. Life elsewhere doesn't necessarily have to be like carbon-based life on Earth.

 

[n_huffhines]

If you can't see the correlation between saying there has to be life on other planets because of odds and rolling the dice I'm not sure what else I can say. Scientist have "faith " there are other earth like planets because they believe that the odds point to that. They can't fathom that amongst billions of stars and associated planets, that earth is the only one that can support intelligent life. They have to take a leap of faith, belief in something that there isn't proof of. Do you not see the parallel?

I am not saying there "has to be". Has anybody here said that? It's still not "rolling the dice". I can say "the next card has to be an ace" but if I don't bet on that notion I win or lose nothing.

 

[PKT_VOL]

I didn't imply anything. You took it wrong.

You mean where you called me "you guys" then went on to explain how it stood for atheist jargon?

Those are the rules set forth by the scientific community. Not my rules. It is lazy.

Science says it is lazy to have propositions supported? News to me.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Sometimes we get caught up in all the philosophy of it all when really it boils down to looking at what science has proven, not theorized, and form an opinion. Like i said in my original post, I believe this world is so unique and so perfect that I have to believe it's not just anomaly. Sure statistically we've only seen a fraction of what's floating around us but you'd think we'd found something at least similar within our current view of the universe. Every time one of these things earth like planets are discovered they always (at least since I've read up on it, maybe they've found more. It's been a while) they always come back with no, couldn't support life.

I am not sure that it is unique and it damn sure ain't perfect.

 

[InVOLuntary]

You mean where you called me "you guys" then went on to explain how it stood for atheist jargon?

"You Guys" Was meant to be toward anyone that use the "The burden of proof is on you".

Science says it is lazy to have propositions supported? News to me.

You are asking me to prove that God exist. I'll be the first to admit, I can't. If I could, I definitely wouldn't be here having this discussion with you. I could offer up evidence of why I believe in God but you or others would just poopoo on it. I suggest that if you do believe in God, don't waste your time trying to find evidence that will pass scientific muster. It doesn't exist. That's why it's called faith.