Proof of the election fraud

#351
#351
ClearwaterVol said:
I don't think trump should have been impeached, but to say that he is innocent of intentionally encouraging the crowd to come to DC, firing them up and then sending them off to the capitol is willfully ignoring the facts. It was a sh!t show of his his making.
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The whole point of the rally itself was based on a lie. It was no longer possible to overturn the results of the presidential election on January 6th. The people at that rally could protest until the cows came home. Nothing was going to change the outcome. Trump had led them to believe that he could still win.
 
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#352
#352
BowlBrother85 said:
The whole point of the rally itself was based on a lie. It was no longer possible to overturn the results of the presidential election on January 6th. The people at that rally could protest until the cows came home. Nothing was going to change the outcome. Trump had led them to believe that he could still win.
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And nothing criminal about that. Hell the Dems have led people to believe they'll lift them out of poverty for over 50 years.
 
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#353
#353
BowlBrother85 said:
The whole point of the rally itself was based on a lie. It was no longer possible to overturn the results of the presidential election on January 6th. The people at that rally could protest until the cows came home. Nothing was going to change the outcome. Trump had led them to believe that he could still win.
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Anyone who thought he could still win was an absolute moron of the highest order (that includes people on here and at the rally). However if that was a true insurrection then it was the worst of all time. It was really no worse than all kinds of protests happening now and in the past year. Those were also encouraged by other politicians but they got promoted instead of prosecuted.
 
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#354
#354
volgr said:
Has any battleground State provided evidence to the public confirming mail-in ballot signatures were checked? Have they provided samples of Biden only ballots so the public can be assured they were legitimate?

No? Why not? Are we just supposed to take their word and blindly believe they did their job properly?
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That's been the issue I have had is the absolute lack of transparency on all levels. They have fought this every step of the way and only allowed "their people" to have access to ballots etc.
 
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#355
#355
ClearwaterVol said:
I don't think trump should have been impeached, but to say that he is innocent of intentionally encouraging the crowd to come to DC, firing them up and then sending them off to the capitol is willfully ignoring the facts. It was a sh!t show of his his making.
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By all means explain. Did Trump specifically tell anyone to break the law? If not then conversation over.
 
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#356
#356
BowlBrother85 said:
It's been a rough 24 hours for Donald Trump with the Supreme Court:

(1) The U.S. Supreme Court without comment rejected appeals filed in December to try to overturn President Joe Biden's election victories in five key states, marking the end of cases that sought to keep Donald Trump in the White House.

and....

(2) The U.S. Supreme Court paved the way for a New York City prosecutor to obtain Donald Trump's tax returns and other financial records by compelling his longtime accounting firm to release the records in a blow to Trump's longstanding efforts to conceal his finances.
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Oh you got him now😂😂😂😂😂
 
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#358
#358
utvolpj said:
Anyone who thought he could still win was an absolute moron of the highest order (that includes people on here and at the rally). However if that was a true insurrection then it was the worst of all time. It was really no worse than all kinds of protests happening now and in the past year. Those were also encouraged by other politicians but they got promoted instead of prosecuted.
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I think that at least some of those people involved in breaching security at the Capitol, (mistakenly) believed that they wouldn't be held legally culpable for their actions because of things they had heard Trump say during the rally. Those people believed that Trump would be sympathetic to them, and in turn, they (mistakenly) believed that he would grant pardons to anyone charged with a crime that day. Trump's video calling the rioters "special" and telling them "We love you", only served to reinforce these beliefs. Basically, those people thought Trump had their backs... and they were immune from prosecution for their actions that day.
 
#359
#359
BowlBrother85 said:
I think that at least some of those people involved in breaching security at the Capitol, (mistakenly) believed that they wouldn't be held legally culpable for their actions because of things they had heard Trump say during the rally. Those people believed that Trump would be sympathetic to them, and in turn, they (mistakenly) believed that he would grant pardons to anyone charged with a crime that day. Trump's video calling the rioters "special" and telling them "We love you", only served to reinforce these beliefs. Basically, those people thought Trump had their backs... and they were immune from prosecution for their actions that day.
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Are you guilty of rape because the only reason a woman had sex with you is because she mistakenly thought you loved her?
 
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#360
#360
BowlBrother85 said:
I think that at least some of those people involved in breaching security at the Capitol, (mistakenly) believed that they wouldn't be held legally culpable for their actions because of things they had heard Trump say during the rally. Those people believed that Trump would be sympathetic to them, and in turn, they (mistakenly) believed that he would grant pardons to anyone charged with a crime that day. Trump's video calling the rioters "special" and telling them "We love you", only served to reinforce these beliefs. Basically, those people thought Trump had their backs... and they were immune from prosecution for their actions that day.
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Then they were dumb. They also don't understand the irony of carrying a gadsden flag while putting full faith in a govt official which is hilarious

However the over the top reaction, canceling, arrests, prosecutions, etc of anyone there is a nightmare. It should absolutely not be happening and hasn't to others who committed similar acts
 
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#363
#363
VolinWayne said:
That's been the issue I have had is the absolute lack of transparency on all levels. They have fought this every step of the way and only allowed "their people" to have access to ballots etc.
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One side yells, show me the evidence. However, when you flip the script and yell show me the evidence back...they get quiet real quick because there is no evidence other than the State saying, "yeah, we checked signatures". States could easily release the evidence and prove the legitimacy of the election in their State, but they won't.
 
#364
#364
volgr said:
One side yells, show me the evidence. However, when you flip the script and yell show me the evidence back...they get quiet real quick because there is no evidence other than the State saying, "yeah, we checked signatures". States could easily release the evidence and prove the legitimacy of the election in their State, but they won't.
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If one side asserts there is fraud (which has wisely never been done in court) then they must provide evidence of it happening. To my knowledge none has been presented in dozens of court appearances
 
#365
#365
utvolpj said:
If one side asserts there is fraud (which has wisely never been done in court) then they must provide evidence of it happening. To my knowledge none has been presented in dozens of court appearances
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The fraud is evident by any election predicting indicator you wish to look at. Either this was the most anomalous Presidential election in American history...or it was fraudulent.

Only the States hold the evidence to prove which of those options are correct. To date, they have yet to release any evidence. I think any honest person can guess as to why.
 
#366
#366
volgr said:
The fraud is evident by any election predicting indicator you wish to look at. Either this was the most anomalous Presidential election in American history...or it was fraudulent.

Only the States hold the evidence to prove which of those options are correct. To date, they have yet to release any evidence. I think any honest person can guess as to why.
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If it's so evident then why had none been presented in court? Why had fraud not even been alledged in court? Come on, you know the answer

The most likely scenario is that one horrible candidate beat another horrible candidate. That was going to be the result no matter what happened
 
#367
#367
Georgia, and their idiot Governor, thought they could rig their election against Trump but never thought about the blowback of doing so and then losing both their Senate seats. Now they are in full scramble mode to crackdown on election fraud in their State before a big slate of 2022 elections. Good luck.
 
#368
#368
utvolpj said:
If it's so evident then why had none been presented in court? Why had fraud not even been alledged in court? Come on, you know the answer

The most likely scenario is that one horrible candidate beat another horrible candidate. That was going to be the result no matter what happened
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What evidence do you want presented? The State holds all the evidence. The State could make it's own case by showing the evidence to the public, but they haven't.

Again, every election indicator showed a Trump win. Either every election indicator that hasn't been wrong for decades, were all of a sudden all wrong in the same election...or....or....
 
#369
#369
volgr said:
The fraud is evident by any election predicting indicator you wish to look at. Either this was the most anomalous Presidential election in American history...or it was fraudulent.

Only the States hold the evidence to prove which of those options are correct. To date, they have yet to release any evidence. I think any honest person can guess as to why.
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Things which you consider to be anomalies do not serve as proven examples of fraud.
 
#370
#370
utvolpj said:
If it's so evident then why had none been presented in court? Why had fraud not even been alledged in court? Come on, you know the answer

The most likely scenario is that one horrible candidate beat another horrible candidate. That was going to be the result no matter what happened
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Also, you're assertion is incorrect that Trump was a horrible candidate. He picked up more votes than any incumbent President in history. His problem was, it wasn't enough to get outside the margin of fraud (and this isn't a blame the left deal, this happened in Red States whose leadership despised Trump - see AZ, GA, etc). The fraud was largely establishment GOP stabbing Trump in the back. They wanted him gone as much as the Left.
 
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#371
#371
BowlBrother85 said:
Things which you consider to be anomalies do not serve as proven examples of fraud.
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No, don't soft sell it. These aren't things I "consider to be anomalies". They are factual LARGE anomalies. Again, either this was the most anomalous Presidential Election in history or it was fraudulent. Those are your only two options.
 
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#372
#372
volgr said:
Also, you're assertion is incorrect that Trump was a horrible candidate. He picked up more votes than any incumbent President in history. His problem was, it wasn't enough to get outside the margin of fraud (and this isn't a blame the left deal, this happened in Red States whose leadership despised Trump - see AZ, GA, etc). The fraud was largely establishment GOP stabbing Trump in the back. They wanted him gone as much as the Left.
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He was a horrible candidate but lots voted for their team. He finished second in a 2 person race. Total voters is irrelevant.
 
#373
#373
volgr said:
What evidence do you want presented? The State holds all the evidence. The State could make it's own case by showing the evidence to the public, but they haven't.

Again, every election indicator showed a Trump win. Either every election indicator that hasn't been wrong for decades, were all of a sudden all wrong in the same election...or....or....
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The burden of proof rests with the party who is alleging misconduct. They are the ones seeking "relief". That burden was with the legal representation for the 2020 Trump Campaign in these matters. Representatives for the Trump Campaign would make their arguments for systemic fraud while appearing on cable news talk shows, but when it came time to present their evidence proving fraud in a court of law, they did not even allege that fraud had occurred. In at least one court case, which went before Judge Stephanos Bibas from the Third Circuit Court of Appeals in Pennsylvania, the case was dismissed due to its failed merits; not on a technicality, or a lack of standing.
 
#374
#374
utvolpj said:
He was a horrible candidate but lots voted for their team. He finished second in a 2 person race. Total voters is irrelevant.
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Ahh, and somehow this horrible candidate got lots of new people to join the team evidently. Come on, stop with the cognitive dissonance.
 
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#375
#375
volgr said:
No, don't soft sell it. These aren't things I "consider to be anomalies". They are factual LARGE anomalies. Again, either this was the most anomalous Presidential Election in history or it was fraudulent. Those are your only two options.
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Regardless of how you wish to describe them... they do not serve as proof of fraud.
 
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