Program coaching legends

#51
#51
BernardKingGOAT said:
I said he was a damn good coach. No one said anything about bad. It's not a binary choice. Silly last comment. If he is a legend to you that's cool, but he's not in the realm of college football outside of UT fans
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Except ESPN (who hates us) has him on their Top 150 list of all time...

And 1 of 2 (the '67 claim is dumb AF) coaches to have a NC at TN...
 
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#56
#56
YankeeVol said:
It's not just what he did at ND IMO. He was successful at NC State and Arkansas as well (and moderately at USCjr) . I also think his career in TV makes a difference as well.

ND hasn't won a NC since either....
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They wouldn't have won that one if replay/review was around then
 
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#57
#57
WillisWG said:
I don't see Holtz as a legend. He's ND's version of Fulmer, both have a NC but both fall short of being legends.
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Holtz is drawing legend lingo because he spent a decent run at ND. But, he did have around 78% win rate and their only natty since the 70's. But, his personna and post career in the press box has elevated his on field achievements. He had plenty of what could have been seasons. He did invoke the locker room personna of Rockney IMO, and that has led to his mystique. But, what I consider a legend....he's sub-par to Saban or Bear, or Neyland. Majors had the mystique and personna but not elite or legend IMO. On the field Fulmer torched him. Majors was marginally above .600 win % at UT. Maybe .640 range. That's not worthy of legend consideration. Woody Hayes was/is a legend, but has anyone ever been truly bad at tOSU post 40's?? Since 1890 they've only posted 14 losing records. Earl Bruce was posting as good a win% as Hayes but only had about 1/3 the seasons. BK win% at ND was #3/4 all-time range at ND. If he'd stayed in his arena and got a natty or two there, he'd have hit legend. He already had 12 seasons. Tressel got tarnished, but was on his way to tOSU legend easily.

And I'm thinking time sensitive eras as legends. Pre-WWII/1960's, and post-60's. Totally different football game evolved. But, legends nonetheless. There will be very few legends going forward with the inherent lack of tenures in today's programs. Saban, Smart and Dabo are rare commodities by today's standards. Richt had a long run at UGA for the times. Smart will be another Vince Dooley as long as he chooses to coach and I doubt he would coach another college program, and likely not NFL. He will be the current rare breed and will be UGA or retired. I could see Elcko hitting the long haul at A&M. Day has to put up with alot of crap, but he may make the long haul by choice. I could see Lanning hitting a stride at Oregon maybe. Cristobol may finish out at Miami. But, I don't see any of them except Kirby reaching legend status of the current HC's.
 
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#60
#60
Flipdaddy said:
They may know the name Neyland but they have know clue of who he was.
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That’s really not surprising. I didn’t know who Paul Brown was until I was in my 20’s and drove through Cincinnati. Most people don’t know who Fielding Yost or Frank Leahy are either. Those two had 11 national championships between them.
 
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#61
#61
N
YankeeVol said:
99.9% of Bama fan's can't even name the coach before Saban. Nor can they name a coach other than Bryant or Saban.
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That’s for sure. Their sidewalk alumni have short memories when they aren’t winning.
 
#62
#62
YankeeVol said:
33-26 is great at USCjr lol
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👍

At the time, South Carolina’s 17 combined victories under Holtz in 2000 and 2001 were the most wins in a two-year span in program history. Heck, 2001 was only the second time a USC football team won nine games (it won 10 in 1984). What made those seasons even more remarkable was what preceded them. The 1999 football season — Holtz’s first leading the Gamecocks — was arguably the worst in program history, a winless 0-11 campaign with 10 double-digit defeats. “Records can be deceiving,” Holtz would later tell people about that 0-11 season. “We really weren’t as good as our record would lead you to believe.”

Read more at: https://www.thestate.com/sports/col...-football/article314509297.html#storylink=cpy
 
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#67
#67
BigOrangeMojo said:
Coach A
114-34 .770 winning percentage at _______
2 SEC Championships
1 National Title
1 National Runner up
Inherited very strong roster from a coach that won a natty
School claims 4 national titles
2-1 Career Record against Coach B

Coach B

151-52-1 .743 winning % at ________
2 SEC Championships
1 National Title
0 National Runner Ups
Inherited very strong roster from a coach that had won a natty
School claims 6 national titles
1-2 Career Record against Coach A


Coach B is Phil Fulmer. If you agree Coach B is a legend, would Coach A be a legend as well?




Les Miles
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Is coach A Lou Holtz?
 
#68
#68
BigOrangeMojo said:
Coach A
114-34 .770 winning percentage at _______
2 SEC Championships
1 National Title
1 National Runner up
Inherited very strong roster from a coach that won a natty
School claims 4 national titles
2-1 Career Record against Coach B

Coach B

151-52-1 .743 winning % at ________
2 SEC Championships
1 National Title
0 National Runner Ups
Inherited very strong roster from a coach that had won a natty
School claims 6 national titles
1-2 Career Record against Coach A


Coach B is Phil Fulmer. If you agree Coach B is a legend, would Coach A be a legend as well?




Les Miles
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Coach A is 77-34. The others were vacated by the NCAA.
 
#69
#69
YankeeVol said:
99.9% of Bama fan's can't even name the coach before Saban. Nor can they name a coach other than Bryant or Saban.
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Not so sure. Who can forget the blank stares of Shula when he'd try to belnd into the background on the sidelines.

But, i'm also old enough to remember Stallings. Had he been younger when he arrived, they may have never seen Saban arrive.
 
#70
#70
YankeeVol said:
It's not just what he did at ND IMO. He was successful at NC State and Arkansas as well (and moderately at USCjr) . I also think his career in TV makes a difference as well.

ND hasn't won a NC since either....
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Yeah, I'm in the camp that ND has been well overrated for a really long time, which makes Holtz' time there impressive after the fact. Prior to him they had a natty in the 70's. So, only two natty's in what 50 years? Not a high bar for such a "storied" program. If they want to remain any kind of relevant, they better enjoy Freeman. If he ever fully breaks into the formula there he could end up with a impressive career. And still young enough to pile up the stats.
 
#71
#71
WillisWG said:
www.espn.com

The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history

A blue-ribbon panel of 150 experts selects the best coaches in the sport's history.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

Would you put Holtz above Neyland? Above Spurrier? Urban?
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It's hard to rate a post 60's coach against a pre-60's coach. The games of the two eras are vastly different. And it's really difficult now to even compare coaches of the last 2-3 decades to coaches closer to the 60's for the same reason. I just arbitrarily picked pre and post 60's as a quasi-dividing line. But, you have atleast 3 distinct eras in college ball. pre 60's was predominately run oriented. Then you got into balanced pro-style offenses with elevated passing games. Then you move into Hal Mumme and The Pirate offenses and all of their off-springs that are used predominately now. Rating and comparing coaches as legends, though fun, is smoke and mirrors at best.
 
#72
#72
IndianaVol said:
I don't think Fulmer gets put in the category Legend because he's still living.

Once he passes, he'll be called a legend. One of the winningest coaches in all of CFB in the 90s.

UT has been blessed with 3 true legends.
Neyland
Summit
Fulmer

Vitello may have reached that had he stayed another few years.
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I get your take but in the context of how terrible the baseball program was and in such a short time to contention year in and year out was legendary for sure
 
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