Primary Issues with CKC System

#51
#51
madtownvol said:
That was a signature win and a great day for sure. But Uconn went on to win the NC. I think we have to also consider that they may have played their worst game of the season on that day. They went 5-20 from 3 which was way below their average.
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That was a wake up for UCONN - more than likely when they looked back as the game, Geno was thinking why didn't I do this or that. And agree UCONN did not play well that day at all.
 
#54
#54
james_govols said:
And reasons it will not work at this level. Yes, she could make the occasional sweet 16 if she has really great roster talent.

1. Her best players sit on the bench for half the game. Is Tennessee willing to spend 2x the NIL amount of LSU/Scar/UConn to field 10 players that can compete at a high level? Probably not.

2. Shot selection. Anyone can shoot at any moment. It's actively encouraged. But why? Do you really want players that aren't perimeter shooters shooting perimeter shots? Seems very inefficient at this level. Last night, the team shot 7-36 from 3s.

3. Mass substitutions. Players never get in a rhythm. You find a hot hand and send her to the bench immediately. Why do the other big teams rarely ever sub? The one NC State player last night played the entire game and outworked every LV on the court. Leave your better players on the court. It's not rocket science to want to put your best 5 out there.

4. The press. I think this is something that works at lower levels when talent is more even. However, this does not work at high levels of the game. NC State shot 51% from the field last night because our defense is never set due to playing the press. NC State went on huge runs. The press is supposed to create turnovers. Guess what? LVs had more turnovers than NC State last night. So much for that.

5. High level talent. What star recruit will want to play in a system where they ride the bench, give up shots to less talented players, and plays in non-structured system that doesn't prepare them for the WNBA? I know CKC has recruited well so far, but do we really think this will last?

Please add anything else. I like ADDW and I think he has done a great job but everyone makes mistakes.

He wanted a flashy gimmicky coach similar to Heupel (who is predicted by Fanduel to win 6.5 games this season) that could rack up some quick wins before people figure out the system. It did not work in this case.

In hindsight, I think the simplest answer was the best. Either retain CKH or find a new coach that coaches a structured system, and bump their NIL funding up to the same level as UConn, scar, LSU, etc....

Once the LVs can field similar talent to the other big schools, they will automatically be more competitive.

I don't thinking bumping NIL funds for a CKC system will make us competitive for reasons given above.

Anyways, that's my thoughts.
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Nailed it
 
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#55
#55
Volstylexx said:
KY back into the Sweet 16 for the first time in 10 years... thanks to an AD who spent the money to go get a PROVEN coach. Again, it's not rocket science folks. lol

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The coach that lost to Kansas State in the 2nd round last year with Geogia Amoore ( #6 WNBA Pick ) and Clara Strack ( future WNBA pick).
 
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#60
#60
Hbg said:
Kim Mulkey said it best at halftime of our game, "this is rec ball, no defense, and no offensive discipline but that is the way they want to play"
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Oh lawd! I had forgotten all about Mulkey saying that. It was painful to hear that from a multi-championship-winning seasoned professional because after that I could no longer allow myself the delusion that maybe I’m just not seeing the situation correctly.
 
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#64
#64
Godfatha said:
Can't disagree. The system sucks. Play your best 5. You're not smarter than everyone else, CKC.
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Exactly. Takes an astounding amount of hubris to think I and I alone can successfully run this system at this level when almost every other coach has rejected it for 40 yrs.

When Geno and Dawn, who actually have the full stable of interchangeable athletes necessary to run this system, continue to reject it, you probably should look twice.
 
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#65
#65
Sudden Impact said:
Real good analysis.
I think CKC knows the system, but does not know how to Coach it or implement it.
Under her at this moment, it looks more like "Street-Ball" vs a fundamentally sound system.
It worked last year, but not this year and no adjustments were made from one year to the next.
Last year --- "Flash in a Pan"
This year --- "Flat as a Pancake" with no adjustments or "Deer in the Headlights"
I don't like letting a coach go after 2 years but this maybe a Must situation.
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Don't know how to coach it? The system she's been running her WHOLE career and has won championships and been successful with every year except this 1 year? Seriously 💀😂.... you dont win championships at ANY level if you dont know how to coach or run your system. My Lord.

If the players dont hustle or care then NO SYSTEM will work. Worked fine last year & years before. 🤷‍♂️ but yea lets use a year full of lazy selfish players to discredit her whole list of accomplishments. Yall wild
 
#67
#67
lvocd said:
The Grinnell System has been around for 37 years but has never produced a national championship at any level.
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To be fair Caldwell did win that Little League championship with an adaptation of Grinnell. And Nolan Richardson of course was the father of it all with a championship with his 40 minutes of hell 40 years ago. Not much else to point to though
 
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#69
#69
lvocd said:
I can't believe I forgot THE reason she was hired!
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LOL also I can tell you haven't been watching games much recently. Having so much little else to say that is good about Caldwell, the announcers have beat the drum on this tiny championship endlessly every single broadcast. It's one of my new drinking games.
 
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#70
#70
glv98 said:
LOL also I can tell you haven't been watching games much recently. Having so much little else to say that is good about Caldwell, the announcers have beat the drum on this tiny championship endlessly every single broadcast. It's one of my new drinking games.
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😂

Glad I stopped watching the NCAAT after our game. Actually, I even had to turn OUR game off before it was over because I couldn't bear to see any tears. That part always gets me. I hate it, and of course the second a camera operator spots someone in tears they immediately focus on them and linger as long as they can. Ugh.
 
#71
#71
lvocd said:
The Grinnell System has been around for 37 years but has never produced a national championship at any level.
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Kim won at the level she was at at Glenville as that is what she uses. It will never produce one at the D1 level in women's basketball unless you are able to recruit ten top five players that want to play 20 minutes a game.
 
#72
#72
It isn’t some magical “system” nor is it unique. Exploiting another team’s depth is nothing new and used to be effective but not during the modern NIL era. No one is going to want to play for a team averaging lower minutes and fewer opportunities to score. It’s nonsensical
 
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#73
#73
Volfan2012 said:
Kim won at the level she was at at Glenville as that is what she uses. It will never produce one at the D1 level in women's basketball unless you are able to recruit ten top five players that want to play 20 minutes a game.
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Mark Campbell from Union in my hometown has had just as much success as Kim in D2 except for one her 1 championship. Made just as many Elite 8s and Final Fours and won his conference 10 times, yet I don’t know that he has ever had anyone taller than 6’1” or 6’2” as his post. It’s just a completely different level of skills, height, and athleticism. Stuff that can work on that level does not necessarily translate.
 
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#74
#74
lvocd said:
The Grinnell System has been around for 37 years but has never produced a national championship at any level.
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I googled that because I had never heard the term - This was used by a division III school. He won conference championships but never a national championship.

The goals of the system were:
  • Taking 100 shots in a game.
  • Making half of those shots as 3-point attempts.
  • Forcing 32 turnovers.
  • Rebounding one-third of the team's own misses.
  • Outshooting opponents by 30 attempts.
The system emphasizes a high volume of shooting and frequent player substitutions to maintain speed and intensity on the court.

The main tenets of that system were the following

  1. The first possible shot is the best possible shot, where three-point field goal attempts are preferred over shorter shots.
  2. Shoot as many three-pointers as possible.
  3. In terms of defense, giving up an uncontested layup is better than a shot clock violation.
  4. Always double team the person with the ball.
  5. Every player but the shooter goes for the offensive rebuild.
  6. Offensive rebounds should be sent back for another three-point attempt, not a shorter putback for two points
 
#75
#75
glv98 said:
To be fair Caldwell did win that Little League championship with an adaptation of Grinnell. And Nolan Richardson of course was the father of it all with a championship with his 40 minutes of hell 40 years ago. Not much else to point to though
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Nolan Richardson's system was not the same as this. My understanding is that he conditioned his players to play at a fast pace for 40 minutes. They truly pressed the other team.

The system that CKC runs was created by David Arseneault at Grinnell College. Richardson's approach was very different. The only thing they have in common is the "full court press".
 
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