Primary Issues with CKC System

[madtownvol]

I haven't read this entire thread and maybe someone has already posted; Why would any coach of stature want to coach the LV's. If you don't win 25+ games by your second year, you will get fired. I would dream they would win 25+, in the SECC, and elite 8, but I don't see that happening. It is unfortunate, but I think we have to stick with KC for another year.

25+? How about more than 16 with a win in the opening round of the SEC or NCAA tournament?

 

[ScreamingEagleVol]

I haven't read this entire thread and maybe someone has already posted; Why would any coach of stature want to coach the LV's. If you don't win 25+ games by your second year, you will get fired. I would dream they would win 25+, in the SECC, and elite 8, but I don't see that happening. It is unfortunate, but I think we have to stick with KC for another year.

I believe, and probably wrong as usual, but it isn’t the losses in and of themselves but the manner in the perception of how the losses happened. Crazy subbing. Continuous use of full court press. And to me, no emotion. I don’t recall any real emotion during a game…any game. Heck, watching coaches call a timeout after their team did POSITIVE things and go nuts on the players was a breath of fresh air in comparison to Kim. She’s probably a very wonderful person but I just don’t see it in her to win a natty at Tennessee.

 

[Good2bavol]

25+? How about more than 16 with a win in the opening round of the SEC or NCAA tournament?

I'm speaking to expectations every year, not this disaster

 

[madtownvol]

I'm speaking to expectations every year, not this disaster

Okay, your post is still disconnected from reality. The issue is not that CKC won 25 games and people are calling for her job. It is that this season was a disaster.

If she had a 20 win season and made the S16, there would be no discontent - it would be not bad for a young team, future looks bright.....

 

[Good2bavol]

Okay, your post is still disconnected from reality. The issue is not that CKC won 25 games and people are calling for her job. It is that this season was a disaster.

If she had a 20 win season and made the S16, there would be no discontent - it would be not bad for a young team, future looks bright.....

Okay, then just ignore my post. You will feel better.

 

[madtownvol]

Okay, then just ignore my post. You will feel better.

What? Who will ever post on this board if you have to have Pulitzer Prize just to debate a point?

 

[LVBB_Legacy]

I haven't read this entire thread and maybe someone has already posted; Why would any coach of stature want to coach the LV's. If you don't win 25+ games by your second year, you will get fired. I would dream they would win 25+, in the SECC, and elite 8, but I don't see that happening. It is unfortunate, but I think we have to stick with KC for another year.

It wouldn't take 25 games to get fired, but winning only 16 games and barely winning more than half your games is not acceptable. I think most coaches would understand that.

 

[Good2bavol]

It is clear that on this thread, reading is clearly different from understanding, or the will to.

 

[Orange007]

You are falling for the "I went to plan B and shouldn't have" excuse.

no not all. with her system, there is and should be NO PLAN B. that's the whole point. it is clear they backed off of 40 mins of the full court press and run/gun basketball. you can't tell 18yos it's OK if they don't show max effort for the program's system and that they will be rewarded by walking the ball up the floor for the game. again, i have a problem with her budging on what she has said is the required system. that's a judgement issue.

 

[gymmlover]

Remember with her system, She needs 2 complete 5 player rotations equal in skills. That is very expensive as she MUT HAVE at least 4 elite guards added to the roster plus a rim protector and 2 scoring forwards. I hope I am wrong but can you see the bidding war for the 4 elite guards!!!!

 

[Volfan2012]

And reasons it will not work at this level. Yes, she could make the occasional sweet 16 if she has really great roster talent.

1. Her best players sit on the bench for half the game. Is Tennessee willing to spend 2x the NIL amount of LSU/Scar/UConn to field 10 players that can compete at a high level? Probably not.

2. Shot selection. Anyone can shoot at any moment. It's actively encouraged. But why? Do you really want players that aren't perimeter shooters shooting perimeter shots? Seems very inefficient at this level. Last night, the team shot 7-36 from 3s.

3. Mass substitutions. Players never get in a rhythm. You find a hot hand and send her to the bench immediately. Why do the other big teams rarely ever sub? The one NC State player last night played the entire game and outworked every LV on the court. Leave your better players on the court. It's not rocket science to want to put your best 5 out there.

4. The press. I think this is something that works at lower levels when talent is more even. However, this does not work at high levels of the game. NC State shot 51% from the field last night because our defense is never set due to playing the press. NC State went on huge runs. The press is supposed to create turnovers. Guess what? LVs had more turnovers than NC State last night. So much for that.

5. High level talent. What star recruit will want to play in a system where they ride the bench, give up shots to less talented players, and plays in non-structured system that doesn't prepare them for the WNBA? I know CKC has recruited well so far, but do we really think this will last?

Please add anything else. I like ADDW and I think he has done a great job but everyone makes mistakes.

He wanted a flashy gimmicky coach similar to Heupel (who is predicted by Fanduel to win 6.5 games this season) that could rack up some quick wins before people figure out the system. It did not work in this case.

In hindsight, I think the simplest answer was the best. Either retain CKH or find a new coach that coaches a structured system, and bump their NIL funding up to the same level as UConn, scar, LSU, etc....

Once the LVs can field similar talent to the other big schools, they will automatically be more competitive.

I don't thinking bumping NIL funds for a CKC system will make us competitive for reasons given above.

Anyways, that's my thoughts.

You covered it the main two being top players do not play enough and crazy shot selection from the freedom to shoot anywhere no matter who you are system.

 

[Volfan2012]

Remember with her system, She needs 2 complete 5 player rotations equal in skills. That is very expensive as she MUT HAVE at least 4 elite guards added to the roster plus a rim protector and 2 scoring forwards. I hope I am wrong but can you see the bidding war for the 4 elite guards!!!!

She could work it out with 8 if she wasn't so set in subbing five at a time every two minutes. Eight is the ideal rotation top five need to go 170 and other three 30 no matter pressing or not. Your not tiring SEC players out it is a myth she is trying to say works it does not at this level.

 

[37620VOL]

I haven't read this entire thread and maybe someone has already posted; Why would any coach of stature want to coach the LV's. If you don't win 25+ games by your second year, you will get fired. I would dream they would win 25+, in the SECC, and elite 8, but I don't see that happening. It is unfortunate, but I think we have to stick with KC for another year.

I wouldn't want any coach who thought 16 wins total and 0 wins in March was good enough.

 

[volfan102455]

no not all. with her system, there is and should be NO PLAN B. that's the whole point. it is clear they backed off of 40 mins of the full court press and run/gun basketball. you can't tell 18yos it's OK if they don't show max effort for the program's system and that they will be rewarded by walking the ball up the floor for the game. again, i have a problem with her budging on what she has said is the required system. that's a judgement issue.

She runs that system as is all through the year, we probably keep setting records for how bad we lost. Of course, that would have probably meant that she would not have made it through those games without being let go.

 

[1reVOLver]

Primary flaws in the KC SCHEME? KC. Also, KC.

She is apparently convinced that her system, properly executed will wear down other teams. It certainly wears down her own team. The better opponents don’t seem too worn.

She so loves her system that, when an opponent doesn’t fold under the relentless chaos, her response is always and forever more of the same. Note UT's Q3 results to measure the outcome. Inflexibility yields humiliating defeats.

One size fits all syndrome. Why bother scouting opponents when there is but a single
tactical response?

Apparent inability to connect with players? “Coach's decision.”

 

[volfan102455]

I haven't read this entire thread and maybe someone has already posted; Why would any coach of stature want to coach the LV's. If you don't win 25+ games by your second year, you will get fired. I would dream they would win 25+, in the SECC, and elite 8, but I don't see that happening. It is unfortunate, but I think we have to stick with KC for another year.

Because any coach of stature realizes the issue wasn't what you stated it was. The issue is how we lost, what the team looked like on the court, etc. The team looked like an unprepared, uncoached basketball team that had no clue on how to play with each other against the opponent. A good coach of stature would see things they could fix quickly.

This is very different than a coach that has lost games closely with teams that looked good but just had some bad luck.

 

[madtownvol]

Primary flaws in the KC SCHEME? KC. Also, KC.

She is apparently convinced that her system, properly executed will wear down other teams. It certainly wears down her own team. The better opponents don’t seem too worn.

She so loves her system that, when an opponent doesn’t fold under the relentless chaos, her response is always and forever more of the same. Note UT's Q3 results to measure the outcome. Inflexibility yields humiliating defeats.

One size fits all syndrome. Why bother scouting opponents when there is but a single
tactical response?

Apparent inability to connect with players? “Coach's decision.”

With Prawl perhaps being the harbinger, a pending tsunami of transfers might force some hands.....

 

[37620VOL]

With Prawl perhaps being the harbinger, a pending tsunami of transfers might force some hands.....

And consider that a new coach could bring a core group with him/her.

 

[Orange007]

She runs that system as is all through the year, we probably keep setting records for how bad we lost. Of course, that would have probably meant that she would not have made it through those games without being let go.

I think the opposite though. She committed the cardinal sin of changing HER system instead of benching all players who refused to do what they agreed to when recruited and paid NIL. Mutiny is the word going around and it fits. I think we lost big in games b/c we had two teams. The freshman and then the dysfunctional upperclassman. To be clear, it is CKC's job to take care of all of this. There is certainly enough blame to go around.

My words are certainly not the gospel though.

 

[Orange007]

Remember with her system, She needs 2 complete 5 player rotations equal in skills. That is very expensive as she MUT HAVE at least 4 elite guards added to the roster plus a rim protector and 2 scoring forwards. I hope I am wrong but can you see the bidding war for the 4 elite guards!!!!

agreed and this falls into the category of CKC's job to correct. as i have said in the past, i believe in the system. it is so fun to watch. but, can any coach find 2 rotations of players in this era of NIL money/transfer to buy in and deliver the effort? not sure about that part...

 

[volfan102455]

I think the opposite though. She committed the cardinal sin of changing HER system instead of benching all players who refused to do what they agreed to when recruited and paid NIL. Mutiny is the word going around and it fits. I think we lost big in games b/c we had two teams. The freshman and then the dysfunctional upperclassman. To be clear, it is CKC's job to take care of all of this. There is certainly enough blame to go around.

My words are certainly not the gospel though.

Assuming there was a player revolt, which may have been more related to her comments about them than anything else, what if that left her with just 5 or 6 players? She can't run the offense with less than 10.

If it was half the team (i.e. two teams) her system can't be executed.

 

[volfan102455]

agreed and this falls into the category of CKC's job to correct. as i have said in the past, i believe in the system. it is so fun to watch. but, can any coach find 2 rotations of players in this era of NIL money/transfer to buy in and deliver the effort? not sure about that part...

You may be one of the few - if it was a great system we would see many teams running it - but we see ONLY ONE.

Edited to add - I don't believe in the system. It is a gimmick built on the idea that you can wear a team down and overcome a talent difference. Works at the DII level - will not work at the D1 level.

 

[Orange007]

You may be one of the few - if it was a great system we would see many teams running it - but we see ONLY ONE.

Edited to add - I don't believe in the system. It is a gimmick built on the idea that you can wear a team down and overcome a talent difference. Works at the DII level - will not work at the D1 level.

Well, it worked when we beat UCONN for the first time in years. And it also works very well when they actually play hard. As I said, in other posts, I do agree that it will be a challenge with division one basketball. But my opinion is more related to top players being unable to take direction from coaches with NIL money out there. So maybe it won't work. It's just sad when some players make more than the coaches. There's a new power struggle that is also playing into this.

 

[madtownvol]

Well, it worked when we beat UCONN for the first time in years. And it also works very well when they actually play hard. As I said, in another post, I do agree that it will be a challenge and division one basketball. But my opinion is more related to top players being unable to take direction from coaches with NIL money out there. So maybe it won't work. It's just sad when some players make more than the coaches. There's a new power struggle that is also playing into this.

That was a signature win and a great day for sure. But Uconn went on to win the NC. I think we have to also consider that they may have played their worst game of the season on that day. They went 5-20 from 3 which was way below their average.

 

[Orange007]

I’m gonna step out of this conversation. people are talking in circles at this point. Myself included! I get your point, but I think this team had insane levels of toxic behavior that crippled the system but reasonable minds can disagree.