Predict the East

#251
#251
sjt18 said:
I'd say that's a pretty decent guess. Their game is at UF. USCe drops Ark and picks up TAM this year making their West schedule tougher than before. UF has a pretty brutal schedule but they have a better roster than USCe.
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UF is a home game for Spurrier lol
 
#252
#252
sjt18 said:
Yet somehow Pinkel will replace those guys with a bunch of 2* and 3* players with little to no drop off?

I am being somewhat sarcastic so don't have a cow.... but if Pinkel pulls contends for the SEC with what he has coming back... then HE is the coach UT needs to empty the bank to hire.
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See, I get what you're saying, why you're saying it the way you do, and why you keep saying this...but Pinkel's going to be 63 after next season. Even though it's just being said for an example's sake, I don't think any school's going to break the bank on someone that old...so I'm not sure he's actually that apt for the example.
 
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#253
#253
TrueOrange said:
See, I get what you're saying, why you're saying it the way you do, and why you keep saying this...but Pinkel's going to be 63 after next season. Even though it's just being said for an example's sake, I don't think any school's going to break the bank on someone that old...so I'm not sure he's actually that apt for the example.
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Honestly, I am just being facetious. I DON'T think Mizzou is going to beat UT this year. And honestly, I think they will struggle with UCF and Toledo... maybe even Indiana.

Pinkel has a formula that works when the pieces are there. He develops role players and plugs in playmakers. Outside of Hansbrough and Murphy, their playmakers are gone. What's left is primarily the role players. Seven of their top 10 in tackles are gone. Mizzou doesn't just reload with the way they recruit.

Losing DGB was a big deal. Many here were impressed with Mauk but how effective is his game going to be without DGB, Washington, and Lucas. Together they were MU's only feared playmakers AND accounted for 167 of their 267 catches plus 2468 of their 3540 receiving yds. Altogether departed players had 196 catches for 2693 yds.

Think of it this way, they are where UT was a year ago... with no North, Croom, Smith, or Pig. Sasser is a similar talent to Dallas and is their best returning WR.
 
#259
#259
fade route said:
BTW, we were not competitive with UF, Bama, and Auburn, so #2 is just plain wrong.
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It's not entirely true that UT failed to compete with Florida. Watching the AU and UA games it was clear UT did not have the players to compete. I think if Peterman and the Vols don't lay the ball down so many times against UF, we would have taken them at the swamp.
 
#260
#260
tm3 said:
No shizz.

Either CBJ is SEC caliber, or he isn't.

This year tells the tale.
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This year? Not sure I follow your logic.

Butch's Vols beat 11-2 South Carolina final ranking #4 in his first year.

More impressive than any Dooley or Kiffin win as HBC.

Went toe-to-toe with UGA and lose to a 4 yr starter in Aaron Murray - without Murray we win by 10+.

What is Butch supposed to prove in year 2 that he hasn't already shown in year 1?
 
#261
#261
fade route said:
BTW, we were not competitive with UF, Bama, and Auburn, so #2 is just plain wrong.
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I would guess he meant SEC East. Not sure of the relevance though. UT plays Bama every year.

I know it is heresy to the old time purists... but I think it is manifestly stupid for UT to support that.
 
#262
#262
ajvol01 said:
This year? Not sure I follow your logic.

Butch's Vols beat 11-2 South Carolina final ranking #4 in his first year.

More impressive than any Dooley or Kiffin win as HBC.

Went toe-to-toe with UGA and lose to a 4 yr starter in Aaron Murray - without Murray we win by 10+.

What is Butch supposed to prove in year 2 that he hasn't already shown in year 1?
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I don't think he has to win a championship or anything of the kind to satisfy folks like us. He DOES need to beat the teams he has a talent advantage over which comes to 6 wins. If he can pick off someone else then that would be a very positive statement. I'll be happy with 6-8 wins this fall as he develops his young talent.

Of those teams 6 other teams, I believe USCe is the best match up for UT talent and scheme wise. Ole Miss has enough unknowns to make that a possibility. And while they had a great class and some good recruiting since, they have not recruited well enough to have very much depth either. That game could come down to who is healthiest at the time.

IMHO, UGA is the most talented team in the East. But they still have a staff directed by Richt... which means they are all but certain to choke somewhere. He has a strange habit of doing that against UT.

I look for UF to rebound but their unknowns on O plus the game being in K'ville could be enough for UT to break the streak.
 
#263
#263
ajvol01 said:
This year? Not sure I follow your logic.

Butch's Vols beat 11-2 South Carolina final ranking #4 in his first year.

More impressive than any Dooley or Kiffin win as HBC.

Went toe-to-toe with UGA and lose to a 4 yr starter in Aaron Murray - without Murray we win by 10+.

What is Butch supposed to prove in year 2 that he hasn't already shown in year 1?
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I'd like to see him be competitive vs the best teams on our schedule rather than get blown out and embarrassed like we did last year (Oregon, Bama, AU, Mizzou). I'd also like to see him beat a less talented Vandy team, unlike he did last year.

I agree with your points above, but you surely can't believe he showed everything he needs to as UT's HC in year one..... there's much, much more to do. You had me til your last sentence.
 
#264
#264
KBVol said:
I'd like to see him be competitive vs the best teams on our schedule rather than get blown out and embarrassed like we did last year (Oregon, Bama, AU, Mizzou). I'd also like to see him beat a less talented Vandy team, unlike he did last year.

I agree with your points above, but you surely can't believe he showed everything he needs to as UT's HC in year one..... there's much, much more to do. You had me til your last sentence.
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It's all about context. I expect us to compete, but 5 or 6 win talent doesn't normally beat or compete well versus 9 or 10+ win talent.

Auburn was in the BCS championship. Missouri was in the SEC championship. Bama was disappointed because they missed the BCS. Oregon was a consensus top 3 team when we played them and fell off considerably after they lost their chance to go to BCS.

Do I expect us to beat those types of teams this year? No I honestly don't. Compete? Yes, but also understanding that we will have growing pains.

No one wins big in the SEC with a roster heavy on freshman/Juco - especially with both the O-line and D-line turning over completely - zero returning starters.

If your statement was about 2015 I could agree. I just think it's unfair to expect big things from Team 118 simply based on the roster (experience, talent, and winning - ie mental toughness).

Florida game last year was disappointing. Peterman getting the start was a mistake.

Vandy game was ok until the final drive where our defense let the Commodes go the length of the field. Hard to admit but Vandy had more talent and mental toughness than we did and that is why they won IMO.

So has Butch shown me everything I expect of my head football coach? No.

Has he shown me enough to have confidence in him and his staff to bring us back to the top of the SEC? Absolutely, yes.
 
#265
#265
ajvol01 said:
It's all about context. I expect us to compete, but 5 or 6 win talent doesn't normally beat or compete well versus 9 or 10+ win talent.

Auburn was in the BCS championship. Missouri was in the SEC championship. Bama was disappointed because they missed the BCS. Oregon was a consensus top 3 team when we played them and fell off considerably after they lost their chance to go to BCS.

Do I expect us to beat those types of teams this year? No I honestly don't. Compete? Yes, but also understanding that we will have growing pains.

No one wins big in the SEC with a roster heavy on freshman/Juco - especially with both the O-line and D-line turning over completely - zero returning starters.

If your statement was about 2015 I could agree. I just think it's unfair to expect big things from Team 118 simply based on the roster (experience, talent, and winning - ie mental toughness).

Florida game last year was disappointing. Peterman getting the start was a mistake.

Vandy game was ok until the final drive where our defense let the Commodes go the length of the field. Hard to admit but Vandy had more talent and mental toughness than we did and that is why they won IMO.

So has Butch shown me everything I expect of my head football coach? No.

Has he shown me enough to have confidence in him and his staff to bring us back to the top of the SEC? Absolutely, yes.
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I didn't expect him to beat any of the top teams we played last year. I did expect him to beat a pedestrian Vandy team at home.

My previous post, the post you responded to, stated that I expect him to do much better vs the top teams we play in 2014. It'd be great to beat 1 of Oklahoma, Bama, Georgia or USCe but I don't expect it. What I do expect, if Butch is moving the team in the right direction in year 2, is that we don't allow Oklahoma to reel off a 59-0 run like Oregon did last year or be down 35-0 to Bama at the half this year, like we were last year..... you get the point.
 
#266
#266
ajvol01 said:
It's all about context. I expect us to compete, but 5 or 6 win talent doesn't normally beat or compete well versus 9 or 10+ win talent.
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That's what Vandy had... or worse. They beat more talented teams and competed well vs the better teams they played. Mizzou never has won on talent.

Coaching is a bigger factor than most of you want to acknowledge.

Auburn was in the BCS championship. Missouri was in the SEC championship. Bama was disappointed because they missed the BCS. Oregon was a consensus top 3 team when we played them and fell off considerably after they lost their chance to go to BCS.
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Those blowouts don't mean he will fail. They DO leave question marks.

I think we all agree that Dooley failed. Most of us agree he had critical weaknesses as a coach. Most of us agree that he didn't have tremendously talented teams either... His worst loss at UT was that weird game against Oregon that was actually competitive at the half but ended up a 35 pt game. Jones had two 35+ pt losses just last year. The 35 pt margin of loss vs Bama was the worst since 1963. You can go on and find numerous historic lows in the '13 season. YOUR temptation might be to argue that it was somehow better than Dooley in recent years... but is that the standard we're looking for? Just better than Dooley?

Do I expect us to beat those types of teams this year? No I honestly don't. Compete? Yes, but also understanding that we will have growing pains.
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Good coaches give their teams the best chance of winning. Jones has to prove he can do that when undermanned in the SEC.

No one wins big in the SEC with a roster heavy on freshman/Juco - especially with both the O-line and D-line turning over completely - zero returning starters.
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They do but it is very rare and unique. But who is looking for the Vols to "win big"? Most of us will be satisfied with a competitive team that gets to a bowl.

Vandy game was ok until the final drive where our defense let the Commodes go the length of the field. Hard to admit but Vandy had more talent and mental toughness than we did and that is why they won IMO.
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It should have never come down to the final drive.

So has Butch shown me everything I expect of my head football coach? No.

Has he shown me enough to have confidence in him and his staff to bring us back to the top of the SEC? Absolutely, yes.
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I see positives but the only things that will give me that kind of confidence is wins and competitiveness ON THE FIELD. He may be the most inspiring guy in the world. He may be the greatest recruiter football has ever seen. But he still has to show he can compete and win against the best of the best in the SEC. I don't hate or dislike him... but the standard doesn't change. He has to win.
 
#267
#267
fade route said:
Seriously? Their roster has a significant advantage in the talent and depth category. We are playing at their place, and if you think Spurrier has forgotten that his #10 ranked cocks lost to an unranked UT last year, you're insane. Not to mention just about every early prediction has them a top 10-15 team.
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ok so beating them last year..

And they decline in roster strength by losing their best players to graduation and the NFL..

And we gain in roster strength due to amazing recruiting.

Somehow equates to we do not have a chance to beat them this year?

This math makes my head hurt.. its like your trying to say that 1+1 does not equal 2 any longer.

I could understand it if the win we got last year was due to some ordinate amount of luck.. or their QB had a horrible game and threw like 5 interceptions that were ran back for touchdowns..

But I was at that game, and we just outplayed them from start to finish. Was a great game to show the potential our team had/has. We just did not have the consistency to play that way every Saturday.

What that game should show you is that we have the potential to beat anyone on the schedule, I am not saying we go undefeated. But to count any game as a loss at this point is idiotic as none of us really knows how good we are going to be.
 
#268
#268
C1Vol1 said:
It's not entirely true that UT failed to compete with Florida. Watching the AU and UA games it was clear UT did not have the players to compete. I think if Peterman and the Vols don't lay the ball down so many times against UF, we would have taken them at the swamp.
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I recall our wonderful and vocal fan base clamoin for the great peterman prior to the uf game.
 
#269
#269
ImportedVoL said:
ok so beating them last year..

And they decline in roster strength by losing their best players to graduation and the NFL..

And we gain in roster strength due to amazing recruiting.

Somehow equates to we do not have a chance to beat them this year?

This math makes my head hurt.. its like your trying to say that 1+1 does not equal 2 any longer.

I could understand it if the win we got last year was due to some ordinate amount of luck.. or their QB had a horrible game and threw like 5 interceptions that were ran back for touchdowns..

But I was at that game, and we just outplayed them from start to finish. Was a great game to show the potential our team had/has. We just did not have the consistency to play that way every Saturday.

What that game should show you is that we have the potential to beat anyone on the schedule, I am not saying we go undefeated. But to count any game as a loss at this point is idiotic as none of us really knows how good we are going to be.
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You can't evaluate a game like that! Seriously? Mike Davis got hurt as did their qb. In addition, we made some coaching gambles that were successful. Spurrier made some dumb decisions. You will also recall Palardy did a wonderful job of keeping them backed up all day. We won an ugly, low scoring affair where north pulled out chestnuts out of the fire. We beat a better team plain and simple. These teams were not close in terms of talent.
 
#270
#270
sjt18 said:
I would guess he meant SEC East. Not sure of the relevance though. UT plays Bama every year.

I know it is heresy to the old time purists... but I think it is manifestly stupid for UT to support that.
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You and I agree! Dump Bama and let's play all of the western division teams more often!
 
#271
#271
sjt18 said:
That's what Vandy had... or worse. They beat more talented teams and competed well vs the better teams they played. Mizzou never has won on talent.

Coaching is a bigger factor than most of you want to acknowledge.

Those blowouts don't mean he will fail. They DO leave question marks.

I think we all agree that Dooley failed. Most of us agree he had critical weaknesses as a coach. Most of us agree that he didn't have tremendously talented teams either... His worst loss at UT was that weird game against Oregon that was actually competitive at the half but ended up a 35 pt game. Jones had two 35+ pt losses just last year. The 35 pt margin of loss vs Bama was the worst since 1963. You can go on and find numerous historic lows in the '13 season. YOUR temptation might be to argue that it was somehow better than Dooley in recent years... but is that the standard we're looking for? Just better than Dooley?

Good coaches give their teams the best chance of winning. Jones has to prove he can do that when undermanned in the SEC.

They do but it is very rare and unique. But who is looking for the Vols to "win big"? Most of us will be satisfied with a competitive team that gets to a bowl.

It should have never come down to the final drive.

I see positives but the only things that will give me that kind of confidence is wins and competitiveness ON THE FIELD. He may be the most inspiring guy in the world. He may be the greatest recruiter football has ever seen. But he still has to show he can compete and win against the best of the best in the SEC. I don't hate or dislike him... but the standard doesn't change. He has to win.
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Just curious - are you:

1) 15-20
2) 21-30
3) 31-40
4) 40 or older

Your answer may explain a lot about our contrasting points of view.

I agree he has to win, but I will not say he has to win big in year 2.

Majors first big win was in year 3 versus Notre Dame...a week after losing to Rutgers at home.

3 yrs later (yr 6) Johnny's team finally beats Bama and Bear Bryant.

Another 3 yrs (yr 9) and the unexpected SEC Championship and Sugar Bowl win versus Miami.

I know Butch doesn't get 9 yrs, but he sure as heck deserves more than 2 to rebuild what has been wrecked & neglected for so long before his arrival.

1 recruiting class will not fix what has been broken for the previous 6 seasons.
 
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#272
#272
I think we win Vandy and Kentucky. We will almost beat Mizzou and FL. UGA, Ole Miss and USC are all losses. 5-7
 
#273
#273
ajvol01 said:
Just curious - are you:

1) 15-20
2) 21-30
3) 31-40
4) 40 or older

Your answer may explain a lot about our contrasting points of view.

I agree he has to win, but I will not say he has to win big in year 2.

Majors first big win was in year 3 versus Notre Dame...a week after losing to Rutgers at home.

3 yrs later (yr 6) Johnny's team finally beats Bama and Bear Bryant.

Another 3 yrs (yr 9) and the unexpected SEC Championship and Sugar Bowl win versus Miami.

I know Butch doesn't get 9 yrs, but he sure as heck deserves more than 2 to rebuild what has been wrecked & neglected for so long before his arrival.

1 recruiting class will not fix what has been broken for the previous 6 seasons.
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Well said

Why does this guy insist on quantifying performance with wins and losses? If we were playing Austin peay instead of Oklahoma, does that mean 6-6 is better than 5-7?
This program lacks stability and is the reason why guys like Corey miller and Jac smith never developed. Too many strength coaches,position coaching changes etc. I believe Dave a Hart gets it and he will tune out the legions of the miserable and their unrealistic expectations. Butch jones needs four years just like Dooley would have gotten had he not lost to kentucky. Losing to kentucky short circuited his career.
 
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#274
#274
ajvol01 said:
This year? Not sure I follow your logic.

Butch's Vols beat 11-2 South Carolina final ranking #4 in his first year.

More impressive than any Dooley or Kiffin win as HBC.

Went toe-to-toe with UGA and lose to a 4 yr starter in Aaron Murray - without Murray we win by 10+.

What is Butch supposed to prove in year 2 that he hasn't already shown in year 1?
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He failed by his own metric, ie reaching a bowl game (btw, CDD made it in his first year).

If he truly is the dominant coach you say he is, and the SC game was not a fluke, surely he should have beaten Vandy, at home, with their entire starting D backfield out of the game, with a bowl on the line.

Year 2 he needs to beat all of the less talented teams, which gets UT to a bowl. Another losing season proves that as far as the SEC goes, he is a ........ loser.
 
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#275
#275
BeattieFeathers said:
Why does this guy insist on quantifying performance with wins and losses? .
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Wait a minute, now performance ISN'T quantified by wins and losses?

Did superman just reverse the rotation of the earth and we have all entered Bizarro world?
 
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