Predict the East

How have we accepted mediocrity? Firing a hall of famer is not the same as firing Ron Zook. We were one year removed from a near upset of eventual national championship winner LSU when Coach Fulmer was fired. It's almost laughable when people spout off about firing him and how it was time. We have been down longer than any traditional big six member has been in over fifty years. Fulmer might not have won the sec in the last five years, but we would have had several more enjoyable days. With Bama dominating like they have, Knute Rockne wouldn't shove beaten them.
He should of been fired the year before he got fired. His recruiting was falling off his team MAJORLY underachieved and he was becoming stall in play calling .
 
So fire Fulmer in '07 for winning the East?

Makes sense :crazy:

Haha, I remember thinking after that season that we would never get rid of Fulmer. We pretty much backed into the SEC championship. Should have fired him sooner.
 
I am just pretty frustrated with the continuing failure Larry... and the apparent acceptance of it by far too many here. You've seen a lot of comings and goings. You have to know that coaches who succeed almost always demonstrate elite ability within the first couple of years. They do "something" that you can rightly consider overachievement.

So should we look at UT's roster in a vacuum? I feel that we have to set our expectations based not only on UT's weaknesses but their strengths and weaknesses compared to who they play. So how do they match up vs Vandy, UK, Chatt, USU, ASU, and Mizzou? The deciding factor to me is coaching. I personally think like I did before last season that UT is on par or pretty close to it with USCe. That is six games where UT should have a roster advantage and one where it is close enough to not be surprised by a win.

oh for sure I've seen and been through many rough times with the Vols. The early Majors years were extremely frustrating. Frustrating but as a fan I learned patience.

n 1979.. lose to Rutgers but beat Auburn and Notre Dame.. end up 7-5 in 3rd year

1980, what a roller coaster. lose in last minute to NC Georgia and the next week to USC in last minute. Beat Auburn at Auburn 42-0. lose to a horrible Virginia and lose out on bowl chance.

1982. Ouch.. Beat Alabama for first time in 11 years but lose to Duke and Vanderbilt.

so yeah, seen lots of Tennessee teams lose to worse teams and beat better teams. Just part of football. Majors would have never gotten program rebuilt with today's impatient Tennessee fan. We might still be searching to find a coach to win had we run him off in early 80s.

I don't like where we are but sure understand it. Lack of stability in he program is the major issue now for last 5 or 6 years. To continue that prolongs recovery IMO. I don't have that many years left
 
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Haha, I remember thinking after that season that we would never get rid of Fulmer. We pretty much backed into the SEC championship. Should have fired him sooner.

They could not have fired him any sooner.

Everyone says after 2005. How could you not give him a mulligan at that time?

They rebounded in 2006. Won the east in 2007.

I don't think they could have pulled the trigger any sooner than they did
 
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oh for sure I've seen and been through many rough times with the Vols. The early Majors years were extremely frustrating. Frustrating but as a fan I learned patience.

n 1979.. lose to Rutgers but beat Auburn and Notre Dame.. end up 7-5 in 3rd year

1980, what a roller coaster. lose in last minute to NC Georgia and the next week to USC in last minute. Beat Auburn at Auburn 42-0. lose to a horrible Virginia and lose out on bowl chance.

1982. Ouch.. Beat Alabama for first time in 11 years but lose to Duke and Vanderbilt.

so yeah, seen lots of Tennessee teams lose to worse teams and beat better teams. Just part of football. Majors would have never gotten program rebuilt with today's impatient Tennessee fan. We might still be searching to find a coach to win had we run him off in early 80s.

I don't like where we are but sure understand it. Lack of stability in he program is the major issue now for last 5 or 6 years. To continue that prolongs recovery IMO. I don't have that many years left

Good stuff Larry.

I'm truly thankful I grew up on late 70s and early 80s Vol football.

Made it so easy to appreciate all the good years that much more.

Post '98 many of us (myself included) became spoiled with success and unappreciative.

Our current slump stings but reminiscent of my childhood...hope Butch gets the time he needs to right the ship.
 
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They could not have fired him any sooner.

Everyone says after 2005. How could you not give him a mulligan at that time?

They rebounded in 2006. Won the east in 2007.

I don't think they could have pulled the trigger any sooner than they did

I agree with the mulligan of 2005 but the decline had begun several years prior. Go back a few seasons, you'll see those back to back losses in the Peach bowl was the beginning of the end.

CPF did win the east in 2007 but by sheer luck only. The two losses (absolute drubbing) to Florida and Alabama (2 biggest rivals) should have kept him from advancing to Atlanta. Just when you thought Tennessee was going to be denied, again...they end the season by winning 3 of the last 4 conference games against S. Carolina, Kentucky and Vandy by a combined 6 points.

After the season, Mike Hamilton saw something (not sure what exactly)....gave CPF a compensation package far exceeding his worth and the rest is history.
 
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TN beats FL and Muschamp is fired in the locker room

Even better, the AD meets him at the door and doesn't let him in.

I feel a little bad for the guy.( well....not really.) Meyer left with the cupboard lacking on O and a bunch of trouble makers.
 
1. USC
2. UGA
3. UF
4. Missouri
5. UT
6. Vandy
7. UK



Notes:

Opponents that kept USC out of the SECCG:

2011: Auburn, @ Arkansas
2012 Result: Haven't played AU again, beat Arky in W-B 38-20

2012: @ LSU, @ UF
2013 Result: Haven't played LSU again, beat UF 19-14 in W-B

2013: @ UGA, @ UT
2014 Result: SOON

So of the 6 losses USC has suffered over the past 3 seasons, they have played 2 of them since with 3 more scheduled for this season, and are 2-0. Only Auburn game will be away from Columbia SC where the Gamecocks own the nation's longest home winning streak in FBS...



I'm tempted to placing Mizzou over UGA and UF, but they are all 3 pretty close - 2A, 2B, and 2C I guess. All 3 teams lost substantial players, but return players as well. UGA is rebuilding an already shaky OL from last year, lost their QB and have no secondary. Totally new DC with new schemes: this may be addition by subtraction based on what I read about Grantham's complicates defense, but I always go by rule of thumb, and that is a team has a year at least of transition on that side of the ball with any new coordinator, and overall with a new coaching staff altogether. UF will have TWO new coordinators, a shaky QB returning from injury, a laughing-stock of an OL, and still questions at RB and WR although there is talent at the units. Mizzou lost some OL, some key DL and DB players, and a huge chunk of key skill players on offense at WR and RB...
 
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I agree with the mulligan of 2005 but the decline had begun several years prior. Go back a few seasons, you'll see those back to back losses in the Peach bowl was the beginning of the end.

CPF did win the east in 2007 but by sheer luck only. The two losses (absolute drubbing) to Florida and Alabama (2 biggest rivals) should have kept him from advancing to Atlanta. Just when you thought Tennessee was going to be denied, again...they end the season by winning 3 of the last 4 conference games against S. Carolina, Kentucky and Vandy by a combined 6 points.

After the season, Mike Hamilton saw something (not sure what exactly)....gave CPF a compensation package far exceeding his worth and the rest is history.
Let me guess your in you late 20s or very early 30s. Phil fulmer was one of the greatest embassadors for Utk. That has came along. I'm proud to call him a friend. I admit it did go down hill but enough is enough. Let it go. Gotta go meet him at the Krispy Kreme in pigeon forge in 15. See ya
 
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I too was a 70s/80s child and the big difference is that when we hired Majors we could all believe in the guy because he had just won a National Championship. We hit the homerun hire and we all knew it. Patience was needed and given because we had reason to believe in the man. Recent hires not so much. Butch gets another throw away season this year and he can coach for his job in 2015, same as Dooley.

East in 2014 is hard to say. The usual big 3 will compete for the division title. We will probably be compete with VU and MO for 4-6 and KY will bring up the rear.
 
So your basic answer is because Mizzou won in the past and UT could not produce against them... we should not expect UT to ever pass them? Even with better players? Even ostensibly with a better coach than UT had for one of those losses?

If past results are a legitimate limit on future results... why play?
They didn't have all new players last year. They were loaded with veterans and guys returning from injuries who had previously played alot.

Name those players. I named the studs they lost.


So you are basically saying you do not believe Jones is the right guy? This year will be the second for this O in his system. He returns 4 QB's with at least one year of college ball behind them. He returns all of his skill players except one. He brings in a bunch of players with top shelf talent. At what point does the "right guy" start to have an impact on team performance?

Here's why I believe UT should beat them and finish above them. Better players at the skill positions BY FAR. Actually better D talent as well. Equal or better talent on the OL even without knowing who the LT is. MUCH better back 7 on D.

And frankly, I AM giving Jones and staff the benefit of the doubt. I hope their system and program will work and expect like in other stops it will begin to work in year 2.

I am basically saying that I believe Jones is a good enough coach to take his team that replaces key players against Pinkel who replaces key players but with less talent than UT's... and win at home.


Im not going to answer all your questions because I dont have time to start looking and comparing depth charts (Mizzou's) and I do lack in that area. I really just wanted to see what your reasoning is, I dont necessarily believe your wrong, my real point is were going to have to prove we are up to and above Mizz before we are and we havent showed it yet. We still have some MAJOR issues at positions all over the field that could crush UT as contendors if their underdeveloped and not ready for SEC play (O-line and QB esp). Do I believe Coach Butch Jones is the man for the job, I like him as head coach alot! I'm afraid he knews a few more cycles of recuiting though because at the end of the day the coaches are cruicial but do not win games and we are young. Do I think he has the right players to do that, who knows? I cannot forecast how many sacks, tackles for losses, interceptions, and fumbles, 20+ yard gains, touchdowns, completions, 1st downs Tennessee's new guys and young vets will achieve....... As a fan, Im always hopeful for every game that we can win even against Alabama and Oregon, but also am realistic about what kind of lineman we have and what kind of QB and defensive play we showed last year. (young, amateur, physically underdeveloped, lack of playing time) I do want them to surprise me. I do expect a turning point with the vols soon, but to say its now before the season starts.. hard to say

GO VOLS!!!
 
Ok, how in the heck did this turn into a Fulmer thread? Is the off season really getting that boring? I thought I logged into the wrong year. As far as predicting the East. Most of the East teams have a lot of question marks going into the season. So it's really hard to say. I think home field advantage and injuries might have more to do with W's and L's this year in the East than any year in the recent past. Oh, minus Vandy. That program is in a sad state right now. jmho.
 
Im not going to answer all your questions because I dont have time to start looking and comparing depth charts (Mizzou's) and I do lack in that area. I really just wanted to see what your reasoning is, I dont necessarily believe your wrong, my real point is were going to have to prove we are up to and above Mizz before we are and we havent showed it yet. We still have some MAJOR issues at positions all over the field that could crush UT as contendors if their underdeveloped and not ready for SEC play (O-line and QB esp). Do I believe Coach Butch Jones is the man for the job, I like him as head coach alot! I'm afraid he knews a few more cycles of recuiting though because at the end of the day the coaches are cruicial but do not win games and we are young. Do I think he has the right players to do that, who knows? I cannot forecast how many sacks, tackles for losses, interceptions, and fumbles, 20+ yard gains, touchdowns, completions, 1st downs Tennessee's new guys and young vets will achieve....... As a fan, Im always hopeful for every game that we can win even against Alabama and Oregon, but also am realistic about what kind of lineman we have and what kind of QB and defensive play we showed last year. (young, amateur, physically underdeveloped, lack of playing time) I do want them to surprise me. I do expect a turning point with the vols soon, but to say its now before the season starts.. hard to say

GO VOLS!!!

I have stated it NUMEROUS times. Mizzou struggled in '12 in large measure because they were missing some of their playmakers due to injury. They SHOULD have been a 4-8 team... if not for UT's choke.

Those players returned in '13 and the schedule laid down for them. It seemed that every time they were set to face a tough SEC game the opposing team lost players or had something go wrong. All that said, they lost those players again... they lose Sam, Ealy, 2 of 3 LB's, 3 of 4 starting DB's... and remember they were a "good" not great D to start with. The lose their best QB, best RB, 3 best WR's (by a very wide measure), their best OL, and maybe another OL. The loss of DGB alone changes the whole complexion of their O. The DO NOT have a WR that anyone will be afraid of.

They were hit worse by player losses than possibly any team in the SEC including UT. And what do they replace them with? They do not have anyone on their roster with the potential to be nearly as good as the 3 WR's they lost. Britt cannot be replaced in kind from the returnees. They don't have DL's who can replace Ealy or Sam. Their secondary is going to be difficult to repair.

In short, you like so many others are basing everyone else's strength on what has happened over the past few years without respect to THEIR problems.

UF still has O issues and has holes to fill.

USCe loses their QB and leader along with their best two DL's... from a team remember that UT beat and it WAS NOT a fluke. UT matched up well with them and will this year as well.

UGA has mediocrity issues and problems in their secondary. They're beatable by most of the teams on their schedule but will likely win 10 games and the East.

Vandy lost the coach that made it go and a bunch of players.

UK isn't close yet.

EVERY coach in the East is dealing with some level of problem right now. Mizzou's and Vandy's for certain are worse than UT's. Frankly, I don't see Jones' situation as all that bad. He has excellent skill players, 3 QB options, and an OL made up primarily of 2-3 year players. LT is the biggest issue. On D his back 7 will have experience coupled with youth and talent. That's not horrible... compared say to Mizzou or Vandy. IMHO, the DL's quality depends largely on Saulsberry.


Coaches DO win games. That's how Mizzou wins the East and Franklin lifts one of the most historically hapless programs in college football to respectability. I agree that it may take more players and some seasoning before UT can compete for championships. I do NOT agree that it should take that for them to get back to beating the likes of Vandy and Mizzou (this year's talent).
 
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I'm tempted to placing Mizzou over UGA and UF, but they are all 3 pretty close - 2A, 2B, and 2C I guess. All 3 teams lost substantial players, but return players as well. ... Mizzou lost some OL, some key DL and DB players, and a huge chunk of key skill players on offense at WR and RB...

Yet somehow Pinkel will replace those guys with a bunch of 2* and 3* players with little to no drop off?

I am being somewhat sarcastic so don't have a cow.... but if Pinkel pulls contends for the SEC with what he has coming back... then HE is the coach UT needs to empty the bank to hire.
 
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Shouldn't we at least consider that it's about changing the culture? Our players have to learn how to win.
How long do you really think that takes? Have you ever played for or led a loser that became a winner? I have. It doesn't take years... it doesn't even have to take weeks. It should be pretty easy for THIS TEAM to turn over a new leaf in that respect. Very few remain who were starters under Dooley. No one on O that I know of.

For all the disparaging remarks about Coach Fulmer, he win a lot of close games because his kids believed they would win. Changing the culture is just as important as recruiting.

It is probably more important. But it doesn't take years on end or even a complete turnover of personnel. It comes down primarily to LEADERSHIP starting at the top and permeating the organization. It is the same whether you are talking about a team, a company, or an army.

Jones appears to be doing ALOT of the right things in that respect... but it still has to translate to wins to do any good... and it can't take 2 or 3 or 5 more years to get to the 6 or 7 win level. That has to happen NOW... and I am pretty sure Jones understands that. He needs something he can call "success" even if it is 6 wins and a bowl. He needs something to continue building on.
 
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Recruiting and more wins will change the culture to a great degree. We need to give time..time. Dooley headache is going to take a while to get over....but you would have to be blind not to see a tremendous attitude change with CBJ as coach even amongst last years seniors.

I despise Kiffin as much as anyone. But one of the things he was able to do is convince a team with HUGE holes that they could compete with anyone.

Culture changes don't occur because of wins or even recruiting. Those things in an on-going way are a result of culture change. Cultures change because expectations and standards change. Some people won't go along with you. You have to cut them, replace them, or attrite them. Jones is at least preaching the EXACT right message on this- an attack mentality... class and high standards... low tolerance for failure. Excellence in everything they do... with aggression.
 
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sjt18 preaching some truth!

I like it, not much difference between a 5-7 and 7-5 team. Mostly just attitude and leadership. The East is wide open and it's time we take advantage, at the very least get to a bowl game.
 
I have stated it NUMEROUS times. Mizzou struggled in '12 in large measure because they were missing some of their playmakers due to injury. They SHOULD have been a 4-8 team... if not for UT's choke.

Those players returned in '13 and the schedule laid down for them. It seemed that every time they were set to face a tough SEC game the opposing team lost players or had something go wrong. All that said, they lost those players again... they lose Sam, Ealy, 2 of 3 LB's, 3 of 4 starting DB's... and remember they were a "good" not great D to start with. The lose their best QB, best RB, 3 best WR's (by a very wide measure), their best OL, and maybe another OL. The loss of DGB alone changes the whole complexion of their O. The DO NOT have a WR that anyone will be afraid of.

They were hit worse by player losses than possibly any team in the SEC including UT. And what do they replace them with? They do not have anyone on their roster with the potential to be nearly as good as the 3 WR's they lost. Britt cannot be replaced in kind from the returnees. They don't have DL's who can replace Ealy or Sam. Their secondary is going to be difficult to repair.

In short, you like so many others are basing everyone else's strength on what has happened over the past few years without respect to THEIR problems.

UF still has O issues and has holes to fill.

USCe loses their QB and leader along with their best two DL's... from a team remember that UT beat and it WAS NOT a fluke. UT matched up well with them and will this year as well.

UGA has mediocrity issues and problems in their secondary. They're beatable by most of the teams on their schedule but will likely win 10 games and the East.

Vandy lost the coach that made it go and a bunch of players.

UK isn't close yet.

EVERY coach in the East is dealing with some level of problem right now. Mizzou's and Vandy's for certain are worse than UT's. Frankly, I don't see Jones' situation as all that bad. He has excellent skill players, 3 QB options, and an OL made up primarily of 2-3 year players. LT is the biggest issue. On D his back 7 will have experience coupled with youth and talent. That's not horrible... compared say to Mizzou or Vandy. IMHO, the DL's quality depends largely on Saulsberry.


Coaches DO win games. That's how Mizzou wins the East and Franklin lifts one of the most historically hapless programs in college football to respectability. I agree that it may take more players and some seasoning before UT can compete for championships. I do NOT agree that it should take that for them to get back to beating the likes of Vandy and Mizzou (this year's talent).

I agree with alot of what your saying. your last statement about beating Vandy though, we SHOULD beat them in some of our worst years, at their best they will never be and shouldnt be upto Tennessee's std.


Also, these teams that have their own problems, they have their own problems every year that make them appear weak before the season to an opposing fanbase that wants their team to win. Im just stating that theres an extra bit of optimism vs realism until the games happen. How many times have you been on here before the season and everyone agreed that we should be able to handle some team and then we get blown out or easily beaten (vice versa). Some days it just depends on which way the ball rolls when both teams are playing hard. I don't know at what level most of the people on here played football if at all but the only predictable games Ive ever participated in are the games where your playing so far below your level its a for sure win. In any other game I really dont care how bad another "tough" SEC opponent is, you cant predict four fumbles, or 2 intercetions, or a fumble when pig is reaching across the goal line that will give the other team the win in overtime. and these are the deciding factors when two teams are playing. Can UT win the line of scrimmage and maintain above average ball secuitry? We will see. Thanks for the comment.
 
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UF over USC?!? I think not..

I'd say that's a pretty decent guess. Their game is at UF. USCe drops Ark and picks up TAM this year making their West schedule tougher than before. UF has a pretty brutal schedule but they have a better roster than USCe.
 
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