Posts moved from the Football Forum (Split)

[VOLINVONORE]

Again, any of these vaccines require a functioning immune system to work. If your immune system is compromised, the vaccine will not help that person. It will help those with a healthy immune system develop antibodies and differentiated t-cells quicker and make the infection cycle faster. The same mechanism as the flu shot. I really don't understand why it would matter to you if the origin of the virus components was egg cell incubation. With the destroyed virus, there is little chance for an infection.
Kudos for using RNA in your description. COVID-19 is an RNA virus. The little bugger likes to reprogram your bodies DNA to make replicates of itself. Kinda creepy, yeah?

Again, you do not understand that different viruses react differently to vaccines. No vaccine is 100% effective in producing antibodies against any virus. DNA vaccines are the ones which have been used since the first polio vaccine back in the 50s. The vaccine against measles is more than 95% effective in preventing measles in infants and young adults. The efficy of Flu vaccine varies from year to year based upon which viruses are included in the vaccines and the Flu viruses which circulate each year. Vaccines do not provide protection against all viruses. We still do not have a vaccine against the AIDs virus. T cells are not able to protect any person from the virus. Fortunately, drug treatments have been developed to halt the progress of the disease, but not prevent or cure Aids. It is too early to determine if the vaccines being developed against the Covid-19 will prevent infection. It appears that it might, but one still does not know how long those antibodies will last if they are indeed produced by the vaccine or infection.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Do you think most of us in the south gives a damn what those real @asshats in New York and New Jersey think?

No, that's why the numbers skyrocketed in the south.

 

[sonofUT62]

What about the behavior of their citizens?

Well the 5 boroughs that comprise NYC have recorded TWICE the number of homicides from Jan 1 to July 31 as this time last year. Wanna start there?

 

[MWAVolfan]

Well the 5 boroughs that comprise NYC have recorded TWICE the number of homicides from Jan 1 to July 31 as this time last year. Wanna start there?

What does that have to do with anything we are discussing?

 

[zaqhhh]

That is about the dumbest argument I have ever seen posted here. And Luther and LG post here often.

Welcome back to the PF Z.

It wasn't even an argument. It was a response to a dumb red herring statement with another red herring.

I.e don't make some dumb comparison because I can do that too and where does that get us?

Didn't expect you to ascertain that though hog

 

[Iam4utalways]

I’m not sure why I am surprised at how scared that people get when the media tells them they need to be scared.

It’s like people live with an inherent fear of things now. What happened?

Y’all need to go change your own oil. Or go build something. Go hunt something. Go on a tough hike or a challenging float trip. Clean a gun. Chop some wood.

Good grief. Bunch of Ps off in here.

They should at least choose an activity based on their skill set.

We floated the Buffalo with a couple, the wife didn’t know how to swim. I didn’t find that out until we were in the back of the canoe rental’s truck on the way to the drop off. So she wore a life jacket the whole time. The one spot that was a challenge their canoe crashed and her life jacket got hung on the flipped over canoe holding her under. After her husband got her loose we went ahead and stoped for lunch.

My policy is that to go on a trip like that you have to know how to swim.

Go parasailing. It’s a lot like skydiving and you get to ride in a boat too.

 

[zaqhhh]

I see, it is better to not answer the question.

I will answer it for you. It is better for young healthy people to be out in society. So when they are older and less healthy, their body has acquired some additional weapons to fight such dangerous things

It is good to build up an immunity to certain common germs yes. It is not good to just risk getting a new virus that we don't fully understand the ramifications of especially when the ramifications we do understand are 160k dead.

 

[sonofUT62]

No, that's why the numbers skyrocketed in the south.

Numbers are skyrocketing in Metro A, Miami/Dade Broward and Harris County Tx (-Houston ). Definitely the demographics that Americans associate with Southerners. Strictest guidelines I’ve encountered personally are Watauga County N.C. (Boone)/

 

[OldVolMan]

No, that's why the numbers skyrocketed in the south.

Do you realize that in the US that New York is number 1 in virus deaths, and New Jersey is number 2?
But, it is us dumb southern @asshats fault.....yea ok

 

[hog88]

It wasn't even an argument. It was a response to a dumb red herring statement with another red herring.

I.e don't make some dumb comparison because I can do that too and where does that get us?

Didn't expect you to ascertain that though hog

Don't be a stranger man.

 

[sonofUT62]

What does that have to do with anything we are discussing?

You asked me what their citizens had done to perpetuate stereotypes that people have about them. Did I spell all the words correctly? I know I’m from an uneducated part of the country boss.

 

[FranklinVFL]

A vaccine is likely not going to be very effective. Still need to wait on that before living our lives normally?

Where did you get this information from?

 

[Pride85]

Again, you do not understand that different viruses react differently to vaccines. No vaccine is 100% effective in producing antibodies against any virus. DNA vaccines are the ones which have been used since the first polio vaccine back in the 50s. The vaccine against measles is more than 95% effective in preventing measles in infants and young adults. The efficy of Flu vaccine varies from year to year based upon which viruses are included in the vaccines and the Flu viruses which circulate each year. Vaccines do not provide protection against all viruses. We still do not have a vaccine against the AIDs virus. T cells are not able to protect any person from the virus. Fortunately, drug treatments have been developed to halt the progress of the disease, but not prevent or cure Aids. It is too early to determine if the vaccines being developed against the Covid-19 will prevent infection. It appears that it might, but one still does not know how long those antibodies will last if they are indeed produced by the vaccine or infection.

Last word. The viruses do not directly react to the vaccine. You are thinking more along the lines of how a bacteria reacts to a antibiotic. An antibiotic actually kills the the bacteria. A virus is not alive. It is how the immune system reacts with either antibodies to deactivate or t- cells to attack. For goodness sake, the viral vaccine is actually some form of a deactivated or seriously weakened virus directly injected into the bloodstream for the immune system to react to.
Try getting a shot of penicillin for the flu and see how well it helps.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Do you realize that in the US that New York is number 1 in virus deaths, and New Jersey is number 2?
But, it is us dumb southern @asshats fault.....yea ok

Yes, that is exactly the point. In New York and New Jersey they all broke the rules and ended up dead until the governors locked the state down. All those deaths happened early on. Since then Texas, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and many other states ignored all that and now our cases are going way up.

 

[sjt18]

I love these non-sequitor arguments.

We have been bluntly told that masks will not prevent us from getting the virus. Some mask mfr's even put warnings on to avoid liability. Then folks moralize about how we are "protecting others" by wearing a mask on the chance that we are one of the 600K or so who are currently non-symptomatic... out of 330 million. Then we have to somehow manage to spend at least 15 minutes within 6 feet of one of the 5-20% of the population most susceptible to the virus.

The occurrence you are trying to prevent with putting masks on healthy people has an incredibly low probability... meanwhile... yes, let's let people go back to restaurants, bars, and hotels where the virus is being shared AND concentrated by the HVAC system.

#1 Your mask may not be a proper fit.

So you think even 5% of those out there wearing masks have fit theirs better than I would?

#2 Even if it does do that, it is still under better protection than with no mask. Both for you and the people around you.

OK. Show me the proof for that claim. Show me the scientific study demonstrating that masks on non-symptomatic carriers will prevent them from passing the virus on to someone else... assuming they actually can.... which is not yet proven either.

When you are done doing that, I would like to see the risk assessment comparing the health costs of KNOWN illnesses and injuries from wearing masks to the potential Covid cases saved.

I'll even suggest a test that would prove the effectiveness of masks. Find a sealed 5X5 room. Sanitize the air and surfaces. Alternately place a sample of Covid patients with a range of symptoms in the room with masks re-sanitizing the room between each person. Take air samples at 15, 30, and 60 minutes. Then... do the same without masks.

If masks EVER work to prevent spread of the virus then this test is tee ball. If it won't prevent load here... then it is doing NOTHING in a place like Walmart much less outside.


Here are two references. One is obviously more extreme than the other... but both cast MORE than reasonable doubt on the effectiveness of masks as being proposed.

FWIW, I've looked for studies on masks. There is at least one peer-reviewed study that showed masks to be useless in preventing surgical infections... the owners of the article were bullied into taking it down. There are some studies that show masks can mitigate the amount of virus one puts in the air... and that some medical masks and N95 masks can protect the wearer when worn properly. The problem is that in every case symptomatic people were the test subjects.... most had the flu. None had Covid.

So if you are pushing for what some Asian cultures have done for a long time in asking those with symptoms to put a mask on if they go out... I'll be a MUCH easier sell than the idea that 330 million people without symptoms, most of whom do not have the virus, should risk their own health by wearing a mask (even if you consider that risk minor).


Blaylock: Face Masks Pose Serious Risks To The Healthy

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

 

[Rickyvol77]

It's deja vu all over again.

The virus starts up North and West, and people down South are like "No big whoop! We'll be fine!".
Now look where people are dying in droves.

Then football was cancelled up North and West, and people down South are like "No big whoop. We'll be fine!"
Guess where people will be dying in droves this Fall.

There's no fixing stupid.

Please anoint that fool Clay Travis (Betting Handicapper / Epidemiologist) as your "CV19 Hoax King" for life, sit back, and watch it all burn down.

“Dying in droves”

 

[FranklinVFL]

To my knowledge we've never made a vaccine that eradicated a coronavirus or even come close. Even the influenza vaccine was only 45% effective in the 19-20 flu season I believe. Assuming roughly the same effectiveness in the covid vaccine, this virus still be prevalent even if every US citizen gets vaccinated (definitely not going to happen).

A coronavirus vaccine has never been developed due to the risk of serious complications historically have not existed.

Coronavirus is not anywhere similar to influenza virus, so you cannot extrapolate efficacy across two totally different viral families. There are several other vaccines for viruses that are extremely efficacious (MMR, Varicella, small pox, polio as some examples).

Data so far he’s shown extremely positive results so far. Does that mean Phase III trials will continue to show extremely positive results? Not necessarily. But efficacy (or lack thereof) of other viral vaccines have no impact on current coronavirus vaccines.

 

[Sub Par SUPERSTAR]

Who is more susceptible to it tomorrow? A guy who has had it or someone that hasnt?

That's really a question you should answer considering which side of this debate you're on...I've heard you can be reinfected, and the thought is that the second infection is what does the most damage...But then again, I don't have all the facts, nobody does, but it seems foolish to put people at undue risk regardless, does it not?

 

[sjt18]

It is good to build up an immunity to certain common germs yes. It is not good to just risk getting a new virus that we don't fully understand the ramifications of especially when the ramifications we do understand are 160k dead.

You keep repeating that false 160K dead number. Covid contributed to some % of those deaths. It was the listed CAUSE of only 6%.

It would be nice if CDC would release that data. They have collected it. They have FINALLY posted but not promoted tables on comorbidities. When you look at it... you see that these were very sick people. But the data likely doesn't fit the narrative that justifies all of the radical responses you are supporting... so if it is ever released... it won't be widely known.

They also have a habit of making data they don't "like" difficult to work with.

 

[MWAVolfan]

You asked me what their citizens had done to perpetuate stereotypes that people have about them. Did I spell all the words correctly? I know I’m from an uneducated part of the country boss.

That isn't the question I asked. My question was about their behavior as it relates to the virus.

They all ignored the warnings about the virus and they died until the states shut down. Now dumb southerner types think that they can ignore the same warnings and nothing will happen to them meanwhile the survivors in New York look at us like we didnt see what happened as the cases go up and up and up all over the south. It's like history repeating itself except this history was just a couple months ago LOL

 

[FranklinVFL]

No, that's why the numbers skyrocketed in the south.

Sure. Go with that. Anyone checked about how many people in the north are vacationing in the south? Perhaps bringing the virus to the south? Or are they all just staying at home?

 

[zaqhhh]

We have been bluntly told that masks will not prevent us from getting the virus. Some mask mfr's even put warnings on to avoid liability. Then folks moralize about how we are "protecting others" by wearing a mask on the chance that we are one of the 600K or so who are currently non-symptomatic... out of 330 million. Then we have to somehow manage to spend at least 15 minutes within 6 feet of one of the 5-20% of the population most susceptible to the virus.

The occurrence you are trying to prevent with putting masks on healthy people has an incredibly low probability... meanwhile... yes, let's let people go back to restaurants, bars, and hotels where the virus is being shared AND concentrated by the HVAC system.

So you think even 5% of those out there wearing masks have fit theirs better than I would?


OK. Show me the proof for that claim. Show me the scientific study demonstrating that masks on non-symptomatic carriers will prevent them from passing the virus on to someone else... assuming they actually can.... which is not yet proven either.

When you are done doing that, I would like to see the risk assessment comparing the health costs of KNOWN illnesses and injuries from wearing masks to the potential Covid cases saved.

I'll even suggest a test that would prove the effectiveness of masks. Find a sealed 5X5 room. Sanitize the air and surfaces. Alternately place a sample of Covid patients with a range of symptoms in the room with masks re-sanitizing the room between each person. Take air samples at 15, 30, and 60 minutes. Then... do the same without masks.

If masks EVER work to prevent spread of the virus then this test is tee ball. If it won't prevent load here... then it is doing NOTHING in a place like Walmart much less outside.


Here are two references. One is obviously more extreme than the other... but both cast MORE than reasonable doubt on the effectiveness of masks as being proposed.

FWIW, I've looked for studies on masks. There is at least one peer-reviewed study that showed masks to be useless in preventing surgical infections... the owners of the article were bullied into taking it down. There are some studies that show masks can mitigate the amount of virus one puts in the air... and that some medical masks and N95 masks can protect the wearer when worn properly. The problem is that in every case symptomatic people were the test subjects.... most had the flu. None had Covid.

So if you are pushing for what some Asian cultures have done for a long time in asking those with symptoms to put a mask on if they go out... I'll be a MUCH easier sell than the idea that 330 million people without symptoms, most of whom do not have the virus, should risk their own health by wearing a mask (even if you consider that risk minor).

Again, I am not on board with your HVAC danger proposition. Working in public health, I have discussed this with several people and I have not had one who believes there would be anything more than an outlying incidence of that. Not to say you can't make your HVAC less likely to do this and I commend you for trying to take extra steps on that for the people you work with.

Do I think even 5% wear it better than you do? Given what you described, if your inhale/exhale is creating a significant gap than yes I'd say probably half of people are wearing it better.

"Bullied into taking it down." Let me guess... methodology got attacked validly and they took it down?

Here is another hint, if you can only find one study supporting your point and that study is then taken down. It probably isn't a valid point.

As for your test theory, if you want to run that and publish the results or even pitch it to a university. Do it. I'm interested to see the results genuinely. Let's see how it pans out.

 

[sonofUT62]

That isn't the question I asked. My question was about their behavior as it relates to the virus.

They all ignored the warnings about the virus and they died until the states shut down. Now dumb southerner types think that they can ignore the same warnings and nothing will happen to them meanwhile the survivors in New York look at us like we didnt see what happened as the cases go up and up and up all over the south. It's like history repeating itself except this history was just a couple months ago LOL

And I asked you if you really thought that the rest the country had no stereotypes regarding people in NY/NJ. You asked me what they were and what they had done to further those stereotypes. I’m not sure if you have short term memory loss or reading comprehension issues. Either way I would sure stow away the “dumb Southerners “ comments until you get your own house in order. Best wishes.

 

[sonofUT62]

Sure. Go with that. Anyone checked about how many people in the north are vacationing in the south? Perhaps bringing the virus to the south? Or are they all just staying at home?

There are no Northerners in Metro Atlanta or Florida. Everyone knows that.

 

[allvol123]

That's really a question you should answer considering which side of this debate you're on...I've heard you can be reinfected, and the thought is that the second infection is what does the most damage...But then again, I don't have all the facts, nobody does, but it seems foolish to put people at undue risk regardless, does it not?

We arent seeing significant rates of reinfection.