Politics and power could kill The Vols

[Orangedogsrule]

This all sounds great except that your stats aren't accurate. US News ranks UT lower than the other ranking entities. I believe we're at 75 in Forbes ranking and 49 in Kiplinger, both are far more respected than US News in the business community. Our best overall ranking is 35 and the lowest I found was 80. Our lowest categories in the rankings are "campus, diversity and safety." Not academics as you suggest.

Furthermore, your $2.2B revenue is based on the entire system, not UTK. Furthermore, it includes $530M of state subsidization which IS NOT revenue. UTK revenue is $870M including $202M of state funding. That means the athletic budget represents almost 25% of the campus budget. The "real money makers" you cite (sales, services, grants & contracts) will generate around $28M of revenue in Knoxville and right around $100M for the entire system.

Not a lot of fairly represented information in the post above.

Well now... let me "fairly" represent the frighteningly ill represented three pieces of data I used.

I provided it from two current sources (A&B) anyone can look up. You know, highlight and search.

A). US NEWS 2017 PUBLIC UNIVERSITY RANKINGS

1. UTK ranking is 103rd.

B) UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE 2017 BUDGET

2. Total University of Tennessee Revenues is $2,204,000,000.00 ($2.204 billion)
3. UTK Athletic Department Revenues is $136,200,000.00 ($136.2 million)

So then, (and this is the difficult part, try to follow)

(136,200,000/2,204,000,000)x100%=6.0804%

Total Revenue means TOTAL Revenue. And yes it is for the TOTAL University system for which the BOT is TOTALLY responsible, which is my point. I don't care if $523 million comes from the state; the UT Budget Office includes it in their total. Don't care what the individual campus budgets are. Don't care what % the UTK AD revenues are of the UTK budget. It is the perspective of the University of Tennessee Board of Trustees who are responsible for the total system vs the UTK Athletic Department. And it's peanuts.

The US News ranking listed is an aggregate of the catagories scored included in their algorithm, which they provide.

I did not misread the US News ranking UT 103rd in public universities. They rank high in some categories, low in others. Overall for Public Universities as computed by US News, we rank 103.

Go ahead and use Forbes, etc. as you wish to pick and choose less damning data that makes you feel better.

Now, looking further, some of you will know this, and some of you won't.

Searching

University of Tennessee Board of Trustees Athletic Committee

We read:

.."While retaining ultimate responsibility for oversight of the University's
intercollegiate athletics programs, the Board has delegated direct responsiblity for administration and control of the intercollegiate athletics programs to the Chancellor of each campus with an intercollegiate athletics program. The Board has also charged the President with general administrative oversight of the intercollegiate athletics programs and with holding the Chancellors accountable for their performance with respect to the athletics programs."...

So the BOT hands off to the BOT Athletics Committee and even they are concerned more with the whole state, and we have The President and the individual campus Chancellor responsible for the UTK Athletics.

DiPietro and Cheek, soon to be DiPietro and Davenport. And I'd be hard pressed NOT to believe the new AD decision is going to have some serious input from Davenport. As others have said, might as well settle back in a holding pattern until they settle how to go about replacing Cheek and Hart. No use getting all bunched up about it.

Dammit! Having to replace both, couldn't have happened at a more serious time for longterm effects on the football team, and maybe UTK athletics in general.

 

[Remy]

you are right about the steady decline in track and field, swim and diving teams, and now ladies basketball.( this is really awful). but our baseball teams have not been historically very good, coach Delmonico did a good job overall, but otherwise we've been pretty bad. the basketball program enjoyed great success under pearl and coach ? (senior moment)coach early to mid 60's. but overall our bb program while good success overall in sec history, didn't often threaten uk or make a splash on national scene.
now our football program is no where near an all time low. I'm sure you remember Dooley years, but do you recall the struggles majors had over his career here. he started out at a real all time low following bill battle terrible recruiting, and his teams seemed to go from 9 wins to 5 wins in no time. he had some great years but I often wonder if he would have lasted as long as he did if he wasn't a vol hero? don't forget the awful records we had before coach dickey came (1958-1963). no we are not anywhere near a all time low in football.
but we can all agree our athletic program overall is no where near where it should be

We may need to suspend your Vol card for 24 hours. That mid 60s coach you could not pull up in your CPU was the highly regarded and famous Ray Mears.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

Guys....OP is spot on. It took me some time to really look/analysis our situation...but that's exactly what's going on! Fans need to see/recognize this! Thing at UT athletics are about to be on a huge downward spiral thanks to the "powers that be" in administration. It absolutely sickens me that fans and alumni are standing around and letting this happen. I haven't missed a game since 1988...but if the admin is not committed to winning....we're doomed! You don't have this academic/athletics tug a war happening at Bama,LSU,AU,etc. It's such a shame because the football program is and has been the face of the university. Now we have an admin that is far more interested in academic prowess than anything that takes place on a football field...and people that's the truth. It's happening right before our eyes! Fans,alumni,boosters, and former players need to wake up...and IN A HURRY!!!

Thank John Schumaker!

 

[Orangedogsrule]

You do realize Dave Hart is there until June or July right? He can approve any contract that needs approval!!!

He may not can. Lame duck.

From the AP article announcing Davenport had been chosen...

..."Among her earliest responsibilities will be to name a provost, the school's chief academic officer, and a new athletic director. Davenport said she welcomes the chance to influence campus leadership.

"I can't wait to get started on filing out the Cabinet," she said. "What a great opportunity to come into a job and find out that you get to choose a large part of your team."...

So some of Davenport's earliest responsibilities will be to choose a new Provost AND Athletic Director for UTK and Davenport says she is excited about doing it.

Seems it's down to her.

But...DiPietro may intervene as it is his responsibility to oversee the Chancellors do their jobs. He also may see the situation as Davenport's alone. Thus the hiring of a search firm whi will hsve it's recommendations available ASAP.

 

[Orange&White]

Tennessee is ranked the 103rd national university according to US News. That includes Princeton, Harvard, Penn, Brown, etc.

Tennessee is ranked the 46th public university.

 

[ncvol17]

Guys, it is me who is the booster in question. My donation level makes educated admins sit up and take notice. I once got a bad candy bar at a Pilot truck stop, made me mad enough to start the rumors about the 'big 3' . OP heard it as fact and here we are, in the dumps. Darn that Snickers bar. Time for another bedtime story.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Tennessee is ranked the 103rd national university according to US News. That includes Princeton, Harvard, Penn, Brown, etc.

Tennessee is ranked the 46th public university.

You are correct for the
TOP PUBLIC SCHOOL
category, which I did believe I had by searching

US NEWS 2017 PUBLIC UNIVERSITY RANKINGS

And click on the link, and refine by filling in for UTK,
at the top of the page I get

103 in National Universities and believed it to be the National Universities in the Public Category. And even saw it again in the text.

I did not continue to drill down in the "See All Best College Rankings" link, where the TOP PUBLIC SCHOOLS link is. I Believed I was already there.

My bad.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

You are correct for the
TOP PUBLIC SCHOOL
category, which I did believe I had by searching

US NEWS 2017 PUBLIC UNIVERSITY RANKINGS

And click on the link, and refine by filling in for UTK,
at the top of the page I get

103 in National Universities and believed it to be the National Universities in the Public Category. And even saw it again in the text.

I did not continue to drill down in the "See All Best College Rankings" link, where the TOP PUBLIC SCHOOLS link is. I Believed I was already there.

My bad.

So, did you attend DeVry University?

 

[vol9799]

Well now... let me "fairly" represent the frighteningly ill represented three pieces of data I used.

I provided it from two current sources (A&B) anyone can look up. You know, highlight and search.

A). US NEWS 2017 PUBLIC UNIVERSITY RANKINGS

1. UTK ranking is 103rd.

B) UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE 2017 BUDGET

2. Total University of Tennessee Revenues is $2,204,000,000.00 ($2.204 billion)
3. UTK Athletic Department Revenues is $136,200,000.00 ($136.2 million)

So then, (and this is the difficult part, try to follow)

(136,200,000/2,204,000,000)x100%=6.0804%

Total Revenue means TOTAL Revenue. And yes it is for the TOTAL University system for which the BOT is TOTALLY responsible, which is my point. I don't care if $523 million comes from the state; the UT Budget Office includes it in their total. Don't care what the individual campus budgets are. Don't care what % the UTK AD revenues are of the UTK budget. It is the perspective of the University of Tennessee Board of Trustees who are responsible for the total system vs the UTK Athletic Department. And it's peanuts.

The US News ranking listed is an aggregate of the catagories scored included in their algorithm, which they provide.

I did not misread the US News ranking UT 103rd in public universities. They rank high in some categories, low in others. Overall for Public Universities as computed by US News, we rank 103.

Go ahead and use Forbes, etc. as you wish to pick and choose less damning data that makes you feel better.

Now, looking further, some of you will know this, and some of you won't.

Searching

University of Tennessee Board of Trustees Athletic Committee

We read:

.."While retaining ultimate responsibility for oversight of the University's
intercollegiate athletics programs, the Board has delegated direct responsiblity for administration and control of the intercollegiate athletics programs to the Chancellor of each campus with an intercollegiate athletics program. The Board has also charged the President with general administrative oversight of the intercollegiate athletics programs and with holding the Chancellors accountable for their performance with respect to the athletics programs."...

So the BOT hands off to the BOT Athletics Committee and even they are concerned more with the whole state, and we have The President and the individual campus Chancellor responsible for the UTK Athletics.

DiPietro and Cheek, soon to be DiPietro and Davenport. And I'd be hard pressed NOT to believe the new AD decision is going to have some serious input from Davenport. As others have said, might as well settle back in a holding pattern until they settle how to go about replacing Cheek and Hart. No use getting all bunched up about it.

Dammit! Having to replace both, couldn't have happened at a more serious time for longterm effects on the football team, and maybe UTK athletics in general.

Hilarious that you couldn't even get the US News part right. I never thought to double check your ability to cite your own data. At least you eere only off by a factor of >50%. At least your math was right on the budget even though your stats have no meaning.

You try to say the $2B is where the real money is, so that's where they are concentrating and that it doesn't matter that 25% of that is tax subsidies. So you're saying they are concentrating on how to raise taxes? Surely you see the idiocy in trying to correlate that to actual revenue generated in an open market.

Don't misunderstand, I think Cheek was a poor Chancellor at best. I am not arguing that he did well or had the right goal. He had the absolute wrong goal and thay I why chasing meaningless statistics like you started with is so dangerous. It sends you down a path to nothing.

 

[johnrlansford]

He may not can. Lame duck.

From the AP article announcing Davenport had been chosen...

..."Among her earliest responsibilities will be to name a provost, the school's chief academic officer, and a new athletic director. Davenport said she welcomes the chance to influence campus leadership.

"I can't wait to get started on filing out the Cabinet," she said. "What a great opportunity to come into a job and find out that you get to choose a large part of your team."...

So some of Davenport's earliest responsibilities will be to choose a new Provost AND Athletic Director for UTK and Davenport says she is excited about doing it.

Seems it's down to her.

But...DiPietro may intervene as it is his responsibility to oversee the Chancellors do their jobs. He also may see the situation as Davenport's alone. Thus the hiring of a search firm whi will hsve it's recommendations available ASAP.

He has that power still Hyams, Mike Strange bot said it on Sports Source on Sunday. He is the AD until one is hired!!!

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Hilarious that you couldn't even get the US News part right. I never thought to double check your ability to cite your own data. At least you eere only off by a factor of >50%.

Clicked on wrong tab. Oh well, makes me look foolish. As I said, my bad.

So, down at the bottom, replace 103 with 46.

I still stand by the positions I took for which I pulled out 3 pieces of data from 2 sources.

At least your math was right on the budget even though your stats have no meaning.

Yes it was right, and the UTK AD budget is peanuts compared to the university budget as a whole.

You try to say the $2B is where the real money is, so that's where they are concentrating and that it doesn't matter that 25% of that is tax subsidies. So you're saying they are concentrating on how to raise taxes?

Don't care about the tax $ one way or another. They are part of the Total Revenue figure as provided by the University of Tennessee Budget Office. It is as I posted.

Surely you see the idiocy in trying to correlate that to actual revenue generated in an open market.

Go ahead, keep playing left field.

Don't misunderstand, I think Cheek was a poor Chancellor at best. I am not arguing that he did well or had the right goal. He had the absolute wrong goal and thay I why chasing meaningless statistics like you started with is so dangerous. It sends you down a path to nothing.

You think Cheek was poor? Why?

You think his goal of raising UTK into the Top 25 Public Schools was wrong? or what? Please elaborate.

Meaningless statistics? Pshaw.. They show my point exactly.

My path is:

A. The UTK Athletic Department budget is 6% of the total UT budget across the state, so it is relatively peanuts.

Consequently, the BOT delegates the responsibility of the individual athletic departments to the chancellors of each campus, under the oversight of the university president, DiPietro.

B. Placing 46th among the Public Universities at the end of Cheeks tenure as Chancellor; while not 103rd as I incorrectly posted, is still not raising UTK into the Top 25 as was his stated goal. And so, while they have increased, we still do lose out on research grants, etc. because we're not in the running. NOW is when being 103rd among ALL the National Universities IS the right number to use in evaluating UTK's prowess.

As for Cheek leaving, I don't believe he really cared as much as he should have about sports, or if he did, he's inept at sports management.

Is there any chance he's using his opportunity as a lame duck chancellor to search for the best AD he can find given there may be resistance to Blackburn?

Or is DiPietro and Davenport stepping in with the hiring of a seperate search firm to see that we get, "The best of the Best"?

 

[jason3713]

When the OP says like it is in Cleveland. Are you talking about Cleveland TN?

There are several big boosters and skybox owners in Cleveland. I know one of them wants everything his way all the time and he has his name on a building at UT.

I could see him threatening to not donate if he doesn't get his way.

 

[CAVPUT]

Lots of melodrama in this thread. First, no matter who is hired, it's not going to "kill" the Vols. We've had politics on the hill forever. It's just more in your face in the internet era. Second, there are procedures and hoops UT must go through with this hire. Covering bases, dotting the i's and crossing the t's if you will. Until Blackburn is passed over, I choose to let the process play out.