Politics and power could kill The Vols

#78
#78
The idea that a university can only be good at one thing (education or sports) is not correct thinking. Plenty of schools have top notch education programs and also nationally ranked top 10 football and basketball programs. There is no grand conspiracy or power struggle that puts our football program at risk. Occam's razor is the principle that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The simplest explanation in this case is that your head football coach has the football intelligence of a 5 year old special needs child. The only differences are Butch doesn't have a hat with his name on it and his ego is bigger than a head coach that has actually won something.

You want to fix our football program then start right there.
 
#79
#79
MWAVolfan said:
The idea that a university can only be good at one thing (education or sports) is not correct thinking. Plenty of schools have top notch education programs and also nationally ranked top 10 football and basketball programs. There is no grand conspiracy or power struggle that puts our football program at risk. Occam's razor is the principle that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The simplest explanation in this case is that your head football coach has the football intelligence of a 5 year old special needs child. The only differences are Butch doesn't have a hat with his name on it and his ego is bigger than a head coach that has actually won something.

You want to fix our football program then start right there.
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You sir are correct, 3 out of 4 of the final four are top 25 in academics..

It's not just Butch though. UT admin, admins about as well as Butch coaches... IMO...
 
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#81
#81
1truevol said:
Of course education is important...genius! It should be important at ANY academic institution! My point is...the CURRENT admin is more concerned with "Ivey League" academic prowess...not SEC/National Championships! That is FACT!
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Need some education to spell ivy, as in Ivy League.
 
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#83
#83
MWAVolfan said:
The idea that a university can only be good at one thing (education or sports) is not correct thinking. Plenty of schools have top notch education programs and also nationally ranked top 10 football and basketball programs. There is no grand conspiracy or power struggle that puts our football program at risk. Occam's razor is the principle that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The simplest explanation in this case is that your head football coach has the football intelligence of a 5 year old special needs child. The only differences are Butch doesn't have a hat with his name on it and his ego is bigger than a head coach that has actually won something.

You want to fix our football program then start right there.
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I find it no coincidence that elevating the academic standards has coincided after several years of felony arrests that have happened on and around the Knoxville campus, some involving UT athletes.

Perhaps those incidents have been disregarded and forgotten by most of us, but perhaps for those entrusted to lead the university are not in a position to do that. And perhaps their line of thinking hopes higher academic standards might result in fewer potential felons being on campus. It is by far not a guarantee of stopping on campus crime, but that may be within their mentality.

While we as fans are focused on the performance of the teams, I feel it is reasonable to assume that maybe those on the BOT, in the UT administration,and the faculty might have priorities that differ from ours. Shame on them.
 
#84
#84
TNnative said:
I find it no coincidence that elevating the academic standards has coincided after several years of felony arrests that have happened on and around the Knoxville campus, some involving UT athletes.

Perhaps those incidents have been disregarded and forgotten by most of us, but perhaps for those entrusted to lead the university are not in a position to do that. And perhaps their line of thinking hopes higher academic standards might result in fewer potential felons being on campus. It is by far not a guarantee of stopping on campus crime, but that may be within their mentality.

While we as fans are focused on the performance of the teams, I feel it is reasonable to assume that maybe those on the BOT, in the UT administration,and the faculty might have priorities that differ from ours. Shame on them.
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There is no doubt that UT wants to improve its academic standing in terms of perception but the decline of the Athletic Department has more to do with leadership than academic rigor. The ineptness of Mike Hamilton and to some degree the complacency of Fulmer his last few seasons created a turd storm and we are now eating that sandwich. However, the AD did a very poor job of handling the Fulmer dismissal and the "search" to replace him. Kiffin left UT at a very difficult time and his departure was handled nearly as poorly as the Fulmer firing. Couple that with the Bruce Pearl fiasco, the suck-fest known as the Dooley years, Donnie Tyndall, and the swiftness of the Pat Summit decline has left UT in a very poor state. Had UT been led by a competent AD during these times then we wouldn't be where we are but we weren't. The women's team has gone from great to average rapidly. The football team has made many great strides but still has a ways to go. The men's basketball team has a good coach in place but he is not the long term answer. With all that in mind, you can't blame some people for being a bit skeptical of the UT AD and not complete buy-in especially with another Athletic Director search underway.
 
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#86
#86
1truevol said:
Of course education is important...genius! It should be important at ANY academic institution! My point is...the CURRENT admin is more concerned with "Ivey League" academic prowess...not SEC/National Championships! That is FACT!
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shaking_head_breaking_bad.gif
 
#90
#90
TNnative said:
I find it no coincidence that elevating the academic standards has coincided after several years of felony arrests that have happened on and around the Knoxville campus, some involving UT athletes.

Perhaps those incidents have been disregarded and forgotten by most of us, but perhaps for those entrusted to lead the university are not in a position to do that. And perhaps their line of thinking hopes higher academic standards might result in fewer potential felons being on campus. It is by far not a guarantee of stopping on campus crime, but that may be within their mentality.

While we as fans are focused on the performance of the teams, I feel it is reasonable to assume that maybe those on the BOT, in the UT administration,and the faculty might have priorities that differ from ours. Shame on them.
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I would say that the priorities of the BOT at UT are the exact same as the priorities of the BOT of any other large state school.
 
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#92
#92
m1al said:
Unfortunate...... If true.
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True or not, there is something that is making UT athletics a circus. Just look at the men's basketball and football programs over the past ten years as prime examples. One fiasco after another.

Our administration couldn't effectively run a lemonade stand. Watching them run UT is just painful.
 
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#93
#93
EZE said:
True or not, there is something that is making UT athletics a circus. Just look at the men's basketball and football programs over the past ten years as prime examples. One fiasco after another.

Our administration couldn't effectively run a lemonade stand. Watching them run UT is just painful.
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Heck they couldn't organize a trip to the bathroom.
 
#94
#94
I was born and raised in Knoxville, an alum, and I'm a lifelong Vol.

It's been tough to watch the decline in athletics over the past 15-25 years. I remember winning the national championship in track & field 25 years ago, going to the College World Series 20 years ago, having a fantastic swimming and diving program... having a b-ball coach that beat Florida more often than not and almost held serve against Kentucky (Pearl).

Now none of the above are true, women's basketball is at an all-time low and football is at an all time low.

And I still get asked for more money EVERY month from the University. Other than my School of Business doing very well, what am I supposed to have pride in at this point? We are mediocre across the board
 
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#95
#95
EZE said:
True or not, there is something that is making UT athletics a circus. Just look at the men's basketball and football programs over the past ten years as prime examples. One fiasco after another.

Our administration couldn't effectively run a lemonade stand. Watching them run UT is just painful.
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You're preaching to the choir brother..
 
#96
#96
General Jack said:
I was born and raised in Knoxville, an alum, and I'm a lifelong Vol.

It's been tough to watch the decline in athletics over the past 15-25 years. I remember winning the national championship in track & field 25 years ago, going to the College World Series 20 years ago, having a fantastic swimming and diving program... having a b-ball coach that beat Florida more often than not and almost held serve against Kentucky (Pearl).

Now none of the above are true, women's basketball is at an all-time low and football is at an all time low.

And I still get asked for more money EVERY month from the University. Other than my School of Business doing very well, what am I supposed to have pride in at this point? We are mediocre across the board
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you are right about the steady decline in track and field, swim and diving teams, and now ladies basketball.( this is really awful). but our baseball teams have not been historically very good, coach Delmonico did a good job overall, but otherwise we've been pretty bad. the basketball program enjoyed great success under pearl and coach ? (senior moment)coach early to mid 60's. but overall our bb program while good success overall in sec history, didn't often threaten uk or make a splash on national scene.
now our football program is no where near an all time low. I'm sure you remember Dooley years, but do you recall the struggles majors had over his career here. he started out at a real all time low following bill battle terrible recruiting, and his teams seemed to go from 9 wins to 5 wins in no time. he had some great years but I often wonder if he would have lasted as long as he did if he wasn't a vol hero? don't forget the awful records we had before coach dickey came (1958-1963). no we are not anywhere near a all time low in football.
but we can all agree our athletic program overall is no where near where it should be
 
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#97
#97
Orangedogsrule said:
Ivey League?

Nope just want to be a top 25 public research university. This does not include the "Ivey League" schools. They are private universities.

According to the annual US News rankings

The Public Universities at the top 25?

California
UCLA
Virginia
Michigan
North Carolina
William and Mary
Georgia Tech
Santa Barbara
Irvine
Davis
San Diego
Illinois
Wisconsin
Penn State
Florida
Ohio State
Washington
Georgia
Texas
Perdue
Connecticut
Maryland
Clemson
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
.
and little old UTK?
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35...
.
.
100
101
102
Tennessee..we currently sit at #103 in public schools.

And because of that we lose out on lots of things, (endowments, research grants, etc..never even in the running)

Hmmmm...

Nope..the President, the Trustees, and all that..they're more interested in elevating the university's ranking to increase the revenue, where the REAL money is.

Total revenue 2017=$2,204,000,000.00

Athletic Department ...
Total revenues =$136.2 M
Total expenses =$124.0 M
Net surplus =$12.20 M

Total AD revenues is just peanuts at 6.2% of the entire university.

The muckety mucks...I personally believe some of them don't care whether we have nationally competitive sports teams or not. Hence the downfall of the track team when other schools are there every year.
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This all sounds great except that your stats aren't accurate. US News ranks UT lower than the other ranking entities. I believe we're at 75 in Forbes ranking and 49 in Kiplinger, both are far more respected than US News in the business community. Our best overall ranking is 35 and the lowest I found was 80. Our lowest categories in the rankings are "campus, diversity and safety." Not academics as you suggest.

Furthermore, your $2.2B revenue is based on the entire system, not UTK. Furthermore, it includes $530M of state subsidization which IS NOT revenue. UTK revenue is $870M including $202M of state funding. That means the athletic budget represents almost 25% of the campus budget. The "real money makers" you cite (sales, services, grants & contracts) will generate around $28M of revenue in Knoxville and right around $100M for the entire system.

Not a lot of fairly represented information in the post above.
 
#98
#98
vol9799 said:
This all sounds great except that your stats aren't accurate. US News ranks UT lower than the other ranking entities. I believe we're at 75 in Forbes ranking and 49 in Kiplinger, both are far more respected than US News in the business community. Our best overall ranking is 35 and the lowest I found was 80. Our lowest categories in the rankings are "campus, diversity and safety." Not academics as you suggest.

Furthermore, your $2.2B revenue is based on the entire system, not UTK. Furthermore, it includes $530M of state subsidization which IS NOT revenue. UTK revenue is $870M including $202M of state funding. That means the athletic budget represents almost 25% of the campus budget. The "real money makers" you cite (sales, services, grants & contracts) will generate around $28M of revenue in Knoxville and right around $100M for the entire system.

Not a lot of fairly represented information in the post above.
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He gonna be mad now....
 
#99
#99
Nocleats said:
Apparently, about 3 powerful people, don't want David Blackburn because he wont be a puppet and do as told by these Big Booster Board Members. The longer this plays out the more damage its doing. 98% of those within the situation know DB is the hands down choice for the Tenn AD spot but these few don't want him till he agrees to do things their way, you know, like they do in Cleveland... Time for fans and media to raise a grassroots groundswell for David Blackburn.. Hard to go get a splash hire at OC without an AD to ok the funds..
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You do realize Dave Hart is there until June or July right? He can approve any contract that needs approval!!!
 
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