Poker hands

#1
Fine Vol

Fine Vol

Go Vols
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Sep 15, 2006
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#1
No limit

UTG with P10s. The guy two seats after you is a maniac and has been tearing up the table. I have a supertight image and have seen one hand in the last hour. Villain has me covered.

Hero raises 600. to go. Villian calls and its folded around.
Blinds 50-!00 I have 5000. left
Flop J J 4
Hero bets 1200
Villain raises ALL IN
Hero?
 
#2
#2
You're playing tight, so he probably thinks you have at least a decent starting hand (probably caught none of the flop). If he's loose, he could be playing a bunch of stuff that you don't want to see (K-J, J-10, J-xs, 4's) or, of course, could have A-A, K-K, Q-Q. Your strong bet on the flop didn't scare him off (despite the image), so I'd have a difficult time pushing in the rest of my chips. You still have $3200 to play.
 
#3
#3
kiddiedoc said:
You're playing tight, so he probably thinks you have at least a decent starting hand (probably caught none of the flop). If he's loose, he could be playing a bunch of stuff that you don't want to see (K-J, J-10, J-xs, 4's) or, of course, could have A-A, K-K, Q-Q. Your strong bet on the flop didn't scare him off (despite the image), so I'd have a difficult time pushing in the rest of my chips. You still have $3200 to play.
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That was a good analysis, I will post results later. I could not see him pushing over the top of me with my image. It was also a big tourney so I was a lil more tight early.
 
#4
#4
Fine Vol said:
No limit

UTG with P10s. The guy two seats after you is a maniac and has been tearing up the table. I have a supertight image and have seen one hand in the last hour. Villain has me covered.

Hero raises 600. to go. Villian calls and its folded around.
Blinds 50-!00 I have 5000. left
Flop J J 4
Hero bets 1200
Villain raises ALL IN
Hero?
Click to expand...

Passes. You are looking at a bet that most likely says villain has set of jacks or fours full; if so, you have 2 outs, and if he has the set, he has the case jack as a redraw. You are not yet pot committed, and your M is high enough to pick a better place to make a stand. Actually, you would be more likely to call if there were a two flush on the board (you didn't mention suits, so I assume there wasn't,) as he might be getting over-frisky with a flush draw and overcards. I still don't think you can call with an underpair, even against a maniac.
 
#5
#5
If he had a jack, he would not push all in. Same with pocket 4's. If either of those hands, got to figure him to either just call you or to raise you a value bet, putting you on AK.

If he had Queens or Kings preflop, he'd have raised you to kill any action. He might have pocket aces, figuring he'd end up just heads up with you and that, being as you were to act first, he'd get a good bet out of you.

I'd have called. Probably lose, but I'd have called.
 
#6
#6
cotton said:
Passes. You are looking at a bet that most likely says villain has set of jacks or fours full; if so, you have 2 outs, and if he has the set, he has the case jack as a redraw. You are not yet pot committed, and your M is high enough to pick a better place to make a stand. Actually, you would be more likely to call if there were a two flush on the board (you didn't mention suits, so I assume there wasn't,) as he might be getting over-frisky with a flush draw and overcards. I still don't think you can call with an underpair, even against a maniac.
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Rainbow flop. I did not want him pushing me around but you know how it goes.
 
#7
#7
Even though he's a maniac, he's likely got your number here. Like Kid said, your tight image should have scared him off after a flop like that. He's likely got a J or rolled up 4's.
 
#8
#8
SWIL said:
Even though he's a maniac, he's likely got your number here. Like Kid said, your tight image should have scared him off after a flop like that. He's likely got a J or rolled up 4's.
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Why? If he has a set of jacks, and even if Fine has pocket Aces, Kings, or Queens, that means Fine is drawing to two outs with two cards to go. Villain would be a 9-1 favorite. Why push Fine off the hand?
 
#9
#9
lawgator1 said:
If he had a jack, he would not push all in. Same with pocket 4's. If either of those hands, got to figure him to either just call you or to raise you a value bet, putting you on AK.

If he had Queens or Kings preflop, he'd have raised you to kill any action. He might have pocket aces, figuring he'd end up just heads up with you and that, being as you were to act first, he'd get a good bet out of you.

I'd have called. Probably lose, but I'd have called.
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I layed it down but I think you read it correctly I think I should have called. :cray:
 
#10
#10
More I think about it, the more I think the guy has a pocket underpair. Maybe 7's or 8's.
 
#13
#13
lawgator1 said:
More I think about it, the more I think the guy has a pocket underpair. Maybe 7's or 8's.
Click to expand...

The only way that makes sense is if he has a humongous stack (and is committing, say, less than 20%) or a short one (which he doesn't.) With Fine's preflop and flop betting, he shouldn't be taking the chance that Fine is sitting on AA, KK, QQ, JJ, or AJ. For a tight player, the only other hands Fine is likely to be holding are AK, AQ, or TT-88. I just don't see this raise with any hand that can only beat AK or AQ in that range.
 
#15
#15
cotton said:
The only way that makes sense is if he has a humongous stack (and is committing, say, less than 20%) or a short one (which he doesn't.) With Fine's preflop and flop betting, he shouldn't be taking the chance that Fine is sitting on AA, KK, QQ, JJ, or AJ. For a tight player, the only other hands Fine is likely to be holding are AK, AQ, or TT-88. I just don't see this raise with any hand that can only beat AK or AQ in that range.
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I disagree. Fine's bet of 1200 into a pot of approximately that same amount, with that flop, smacks of Fine being concerned that he's beat. In Villain's spot, I'd have put Fine on AK and have read weakness all the way.

Reason: Fine bet six times the big blind from first position. That's a guy that doesn't want action. That flop comes out and Fine throws out a pot-sized bet. Seems like a feeler bet to me, to see if he's beat.
 
#16
#16
lawgator1 said:
I disagree. Fine's bet of 1200 into a pot of approximately that same amount, with that flop, smacks of Fine being concerned that he's beat. In Villain's spot, I'd have put Fine on AK and have read weakness all the way.

Reason: Fine bet six times the big blind from first position. That's a guy that doesn't want action. That flop comes out and Fine throws out a pot-sized bet. Seems like a feeler bet to me, to see if he's beat.
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If I push all in Flop, I only get called if I am beat.
 
#17
#17
Fine Vol said:
I turned my hand face up hoping he would show. NOPE
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Fine, if I may be allowed to criticize (and you know I will).

I don't like the preflop bet of six times the big blind by you. Reason being that if you get called and any jack, queen, king or ace comes, then you have to be worried that you are playing from behind the whole way. If some is going to call you after you raise under the gun for 600 because they have a weak ace, then why not just raise it to 300? That way, you can get away form the hand a lot easier if the flop comes out with a lot of paint.

In fact, in your position, my play would be simply to have called the BB and hope for three undercards or to spike the third ten. No one would put you on a set in that spot.
 
#18
#18
Fine Vol said:
If I push all in Flop, I only get called if I am beat.
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Exactly. See mine just posted immediately above.

Pocket tens simply isn't that great a hand and definitely not worth 6 times the BB when you got the whole table to go after you.

By betting that much, you committed yourself to at least one more stab at it. He had position, read weakness, and pushed you off the better hand, IMO.
 
#19
#19
lawgator1 said:
Fine, if I may be allowed to criticize (and you know I will).

I don't like the preflop bet of six times the big blind by you. Reason being that if you get called and any jack, queen, king or ace comes, then you have to be worried that you are playing from behind the whole way. If some is going to call you after you raise under the gun for 600 because they have a weak ace, then why not just raise it to 300? That way, you can get away form the hand a lot easier if the flop comes out with a lot of paint.

In fact, in your position, my play would be simply to have called the BB and hope for three undercards or to spike the third ten. No one would put you on a set in that spot.
Click to expand...
Ah I see, this is also something to think about. Talking like this makes everyone a better player. I love it.
 
#20
#20
lawgator1 said:
Exactly. See mine just posted immediately above.

Pocket tens simply isn't that great a hand and definitely not worth 6 times the BB when you got the whole table to go after you.

By betting that much, you committed yourself to at least one more stab at it. He had position, read weakness, and pushed you off the better hand, IMO.
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I though my image and UTG spot would yield one caller or free blinds.
 
#21
#21
Fine Vol said:
Ah I see, this is also something to think about. Talking like this makes everyone a better player. I love it.
Click to expand...


One of my buddies the other day quoted a couple of pros who all said the same thing: Avoid getting too many chips into the pot too soon in a hand. Amateurs get way too excited by pocket pairs.

How many times, when the hand comes all the way down to the last card, is it a winner with one pair? Very rarely, in my experience. Its usually at least two pair to win.

People push all the time with pocket Jacks and Queens. If you do that in early position, you are setting yourself up to get called by AK for a race or someone with a stronger pair than you.

Bet 'em light and when you do hit your set one out of 8 times, you take down a big pot.
 
#23
#23
Its possible. This constant dreary rain, combined with the usual boredom for early August, has me in the mood to just go home at end of the day and nap.
 
#24
#24
lawgator1 said:
Why? If he has a set of jacks, and even if Fine has pocket Aces, Kings, or Queens, that means Fine is drawing to two outs with two cards to go. Villain would be a 9-1 favorite. Why push Fine off the hand?
Click to expand...

Because Fine made a healthy opening bet- and villain(being a wild man) might think he will call it down no matter what due to his short stack.
 
#25
#25
Fine Vol said:
No limit

UTG with P10s. The guy two seats after you is a maniac and has been tearing up the table. I have a supertight image and have seen one hand in the last hour. Villain has me covered.

Hero raises 600. to go. Villian calls and its folded around.
Blinds 50-!00 I have 5000. left
Flop J J 4
Hero bets 1200
Villain raises ALL IN
Hero?
Click to expand...

Did someone say poker?

545b_1.JPG
 
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