Pick Freak's playoff team

#127
#127
GahLee said:
Other than the fact that you're converting free throws into field goal attempts and also giving those free throws up as possessions when Russ takes about twice as many as Curry.

Other than that...
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Why is that flawed? Your point doesn't make any sense. We are talking about scoring ability. Take away FTs and Westbrook looks even worse as a scorer. Counting FTs works in his favor. Everyone tries to find bias in my posts, but I included numbers that favor Westbrook, because that's the best number for comparing scoring ability:

TS% (counts FTs)
RW = .536
SC = .638

Effective FG% (doesn't count FTs)
RW = .455
SC = .594
 
#128
#128
It can't be argued that Curry isn't a more efficient scorer. He's as good a shooter as you're ever going to see. Those 3's carry a ton of weight.

It also helps that Curry has much better teammates and plays in an infinity better offense. But that metric you just used is nonsense.
 
#129
#129
GahLee said:
It can't be argued that Curry isn't a more efficient scorer. He's as good a shooter as you're ever going to see. Those 3's carry a ton of weight.

It also helps that Curry has much better teammates and plays in an infinity better offense. But that metric you just used is nonsense.
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Curry has been shooting an insane % his entire career.

Westbrook has been shooting an average % his entire career.

It has nothing to do with teammates.
 
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#130
#130
n_huffhines said:
Why is that flawed? Your point doesn't make any sense. We are talking about scoring ability. Take away FTs and Westbrook looks even worse as a scorer. Counting FTs works in his favor. Everyone tries to find bias in my posts, but I included numbers that favor Westbrook, because that's the best number for comparing scoring ability:

TS% (counts FTs)
RW = .536
SC = .638

Effective FG% (doesn't count FTs)
RW = .455
SC = .594
Click to expand...

Giving Curry/Golden State 8 "possessions" when in fact some of those are free throws. It's not the same.

At any rate, those stats don't take account for a multitude of things. Like having a competent coaching staff that finds creative ways to get you open for shots or a team having to gameplan for mutiple players and just geared to stop you.

Curry has some clear cut advantages over Westbrook in that regard, Curry is a an all-time great shooter and Westbrook is an athletic freak with an insane competitive drive. Russ will never be as efficient in terms of shooting percentages but to call what he does "treading water" is asinine.
 
#131
#131
BTW, this is what my original stat looks like when you don't count FTs:

RW = 20 ppg off 22 fgapg
SC = 20 ppg off 17 fgapg
 
#132
#132
n_huffhines said:
Curry has been shooting an insane % his entire career.

Westbrook has been shooting an average % his entire career.

It has nothing to do with teammates.
Click to expand...

So you don't think being surrounded by a better supporting cast nets you a better shot selection?
 
#133
#133
GahLee said:
Giving Curry/Golden State 8 "possessions" when in fact some of those are free throws. It's not the same.

At any rate, those stats don't take account for a multitude of things. Like having a competent coaching staff that finds creative ways to get you open for shots or a team having to gameplan for mutiple players and just geared to stop you.

Curry has some clear cut advantages over Westbrook in that regard, Curry is a an all-time great shooter and Westbrook is an athletic freak with an insane competitive drive. Russ will never be as efficient in terms of shooting percentages but to call what he does "treading water" is asinine.
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But so many players on the Thunder over the last few years have shot a great % with Brooks as their coach. I don't think that's an excuse. Durant shoots the lights out. Harden shot the lights out. The supporting cast shoots a pretty good %, with or without Russ.
 
#134
#134
GahLee said:
So you don't think being surrounded by a better supporting cast nets you a better shot selection?
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Yeah, but it's not the only factor involved and I don't think it's a big factor. Love went from #1 to #3 and his % came down significantly. He's getting less defensive attention, but he's also getting fewer plays drawn up for him.

Look at the other PGs in question. For CP3 and Curry, teammates have come and gone and they've always shot a high%.
 
#135
#135
n_huffhines said:
BTW, this is what my original stat looks like when you don't count FTs:

RW = 20 ppg off 22 fgapg
SC = 20 ppg off 17 fgapg
Click to expand...

It's 5 shots. I don't think Russ takes too many shots, just too many bad shots. But when Dion Waiters is the 2nd option what's a guy of his caliber to do?
 
#136
#136
GahLee said:
It's 5 shots. I don't think Russ takes too many shots, just too many bad shots. But when Dion Waiters is the 2nd option what's a guy of his caliber to do?
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If Russ took smart shots, he'd be the best PG...maybe ever. As far as all-around talent, there hasn't been anything like him, but the difference between him and the greats (Stockton, Magic) is decision-making.
 
#137
#137
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, but it's not the only factor involved and I don't think it's a big factor. Love went from #1 to #3 and his % came down significantly. He's getting less defensive attention, but he's also getting fewer plays drawn up for him.

Look at the other PGs in question. For CP3 and Curry, teammates have come and gone and they've always shot a high%.
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I'm not arguing that Westbrook is as good as Curry on offense. I've stated that it's not really up for debate.

I just didn't like the metric you used. I'm not in to all the advanced stats. As always, context matters.
 
#138
#138
n_huffhines said:
If Russ took smart shots, he'd be the best PG...maybe ever. As far as all-around talent, there hasn't been anything like him, but the difference between him and the greats (Stockton, Magic) is decision-making.
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I think part of that, this year specifically, is not having anything that resembles help, especially on the perimeter. Dion Waiters and Kyle Singler should have their asses firmly on the bench when the game matters.
 
#139
#139
I also think having better teammates has a bigger impact than you do.

Look at that OKC roster.

First, look at the bigs. Kanter and Adams, neither of them are good pick and roll players. So what do they do? Clog the lane.

Now look at the perimeter players, who's spacing the floor? Defenses will let Singler and Waiters shoot all day long.

Opposing teams entire defensive strategy revolves around stopping Russ and considering that, what he did is amazing.
 
#140
#140
Curry on the other hand has spacing to drive because just about everybody on that team can shoot.

Plus the bigs can play a better pick and roll game. I'm not trying to take anything away from Curry and his offensive prowess, dude is pretty amazing at creating his own shot but Russ had to do a lot more for his team with a considerable amount less around him.
 
#141
#141
GahLee said:
I also think having better teammates has a bigger impact than you do.

Look at that OKC roster.

First, look at the bigs. Kanter and Adams, neither of them are good pick and roll players. So what do they do? Clog the lane.

Now look at the perimeter players, who's spacing the floor? Defenses will let Singler and Waiters shoot all day long.

Opposing teams entire defensive strategy revolves around stopping Russ and considering that, what he did is amazing.
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But they did stop Russ. They forced him to shoot league average. With Durant and Ibaka out, that's probably a wash as far as shooting efficiency goes. I would say as a team they probably shoot around league average, but when you factor in turnovers, he probably should have passed more instead of forcing so much. With Durant and Ibaka, there is no reason Westbrook should be shooting more than 15 times per game.

And his % is the same, whether the D is focusing on Durant or him.
 
#145
#145
Notorious B.E.N said:
It would mellow the place out a little bit.
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I thought we were having a good conversation and that Gahlee was being cool. What do we want this forum to be? I thought we wanted a barber shop atmosphere. We could always ask Joevol to come back and do his play-by-play posts.
 
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