Paying Players?

#51
#51
I would say the bigger booster based teams will be able to buy the best talent. I mean without some sort of cap, and a bunch of regulators, the likes of Vandy could become a powerhouse. I would be assuming that all the doctors and lawyers would through in a mini mint. I think paying the students could cause a lot of issues. Maybe they could give them a portion of the Jersey sales? I really don't know how you could monitor the whole situation, even if you had a flat payout for all athletes. I think the NCAA does profit a hell of a lot from these athletes; however, I think the schools want students to come there for some kind of degree in a field they would rely on if football isn't around. That could be a bunch of bunk, and they may not care at all. This is hard topic to really solve IMO.
 
#53
#53
Respectable post for sure. However, athletes and students have the same needs. Parking permits, meals and such. But athletes actually make money. Students only pay money to schools. There is a difference. IMO athletes get a bum rap with that "free education crap". They have to master a sport and a major. Simultaneously. Generally speaking though, your post is hard to dispute.
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I agree with that. Student athletes work very hard for their school no doubt.

I started but failed to say that there are students who generate income in terms of program grants and by working on different projects. Plus some, not many, are in co-op programs where they attend school for a semester and then work an internship for a semester. The school benefits from those monetarily. But, by and large the AD rides on the back of the football and basketball teams.

For me, I do like that comparison to the ROTC scholarship. I got tuition, book money and a monthly stipend. Plus I got paid a wage when I went off to training camp during the summer. To keep that scholarship I had to maintain my grades, progress in ROTC and graduate. When I graduated I owed Uncle Sam 4 years. If that set up is good enough for the Army seems like the NCAA could work up something similar.
 
#54
#54
I agree with that. Student athletes work very hard for their school no doubt.

I started but failed to say that there are students who generate income in terms of program grants and by working on different projects. Plus some, not many, are in co-op programs where they attend school for a semester and then work an internship for a semester. The school benefits from those monetarily. But, by and large the AD rides on the back of the football and basketball teams.

For me, I do like that comparison to the ROTC scholarship. I got tuition, book money and a monthly stipend. Plus I got paid a wage when I went off to training camp during the summer. To keep that scholarship I had to maintain my grades, progress in ROTC and graduate. When I graduated I owed Uncle Sam 4 years. If that set up is good enough for the Army seems like the NCAA could work up something similar.

This is a good idea. May be the best answer too.
 
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#55
#55
I don't get the 70 number if you have 85 schollies to offer.

I don't know how D-I works, but in D-II 85 players are on scholarship but only 70 are on the traveling team (away games). For all intents and purposes, the other 15 are basically red-shirts or walkons. But that is D-II, so obviously scholarships don't work the same.
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#56
#56
I don't know how D-I works, but in D-II 85 players are on scholarship but only 70 are on the traveling team (away games). For all intents and purposes, the other 15 are basically red-shirts or walkons. But that is D-II, so obviously scholarships don't work the same.
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I can't remember if it's an SEC rule or an NCAA rule that limits how many can travel to in and out of conference away games but there is a limit.
 
#57
#57
The real answer to this debate is that if it were SO TERRIBLE and unbearable to be a student athlete then no one would do it.
If some kid is legitimately a future star, let him take out a few student loans to fund his shenanigans. $40,000 in student loans is cake to repay for a millionaire athlete. Those who aren't stars in the making are already being paid with a free education. They didn't make scholarship grades in high school so they can earn their education by being a top-notch athlete.
 
#58
#58
The real answer to this debate is that if it were SO TERRIBLE and unbearable to be a student athlete then no one would do it.
If some kid is legitimately a future star, let him take out a few student loans to fund his shenanigans. $40,000 in student loans is cake to repay for a millionaire athlete. Those who aren't stars in the making are already being paid with a free education. They didn't make scholarship grades in high school so they can earn their education by being a top-notch athlete.

If you "worked" in a game that made $ then you should make $. We all know what working for free is. All students spend time studying and attend class with the chance for a degree. What separates the athlete is the year round training and traveling to and participating in games. That equates to work and workers get paid. Best player or worst player.
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#59
#59
If you "worked" in a game that made $ then you should make $. We all know what working for free is. All students spend time studying and attend class with the chance for a degree. What separates the athlete is the year round training and traveling to and participating in games. That equates to work and workers get paid. Best player or worst player.
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An internship...
 
#61
#61
Colleges do pay players, they pay them however much money it takes to get a four year degree to go along with room, board, and meals. This is college football. Don't start ruining the game by paying these players. Don't tell me a free education is not enough. 90 percent of these athletes will never play pro sports, and of those the vast majority will be more than happy with a free education. For the others who do make it to the pros and literally are worth millions, then they'll get their millions when they get where they're going. Then they can thank the college for coaching them up to a professional level and allowing them to display their talents for four years with a free place to stay, eat, and for some of them, even to STUDY! (crazy I know); Because a few of them might blow out their knee their rookie year and then have a degree to fall back on. Don't tell me that colleges and universities don't take care of student athletes. That is a load of BS.

The only change I would make would be for the NCAA to get rid of some of these absolutely ridiculous rules. If an alumni really likes a player and wants to buy him a meal, then freaking let him! If a die hard fan wants to let one of his favorite players get a free tattoo from his parlor, then what's the big deal? If someone's forking out 180 grand to buy one of these players, then by all means go ahead and punish all parties involved, but this little nit picking crap is absolutely ridiculous. All it takes is a little common sense.
 
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#62
#62
Seeing as everyone feels athletes should be paid as this "free education crap" is not payment, how about we have these athletes pay their own way and then we can "Pay" them the 300.00 a month mentioned. Does that sound like a good trade off? How many of these top athletes could not even go to college if they were not given a ship? I am also of the thinking that Tennessee is giving these kids a very big stage to display their talents. That is worth something in itself. Look at the high school football scene, alot of families move and or pay alot of money so kids can play on certain high school teams. Tennessee gives these kids a 40,000-60,000.00 education and a huge stage to display their ability for a possible million dollar career. IMO, that is payment enough. Also, to those who feel these kids should be paid...if a player never makes it off the bench and does not play in games on a regular basis, should he then be forced to pay his own way? With the risk of God striking me dead for saying this, would Rod Wilkes 2 career tackles equate to a reasonable trade for a free education? I think these kids are making out just fine.
 
#63
#63
An internship...
A lot of small businesses, and some larger ones try to supplement their workforce with interns, which effectively can mean a paid worker being displaced for "free" labor. Not only does that give them an unfair advantage against their competitors in the market, but it puts someone out of a job, and takes food off their table.

It's even more prevalent in this recession. However, Federal labor laws actually forbid the usage of interns in this way. It's a clause stating that "no employer can receive any immediate benefit from the work of an UNPAID intern. " Basically, if you are using an intern in production (that translates into commercial gain), you are violating federal (and usually state) labor laws. It's a case of people trying to abuse the system for their own benefit.

What's really raw about unpaid internships is that the intern has to pay out of pocket expenses (fuel, insurance and wear and tear on their personal vehicles) to travel to an from work. That's on top of being manipulated for free labor.

I can hear the excuses, "well they get VALUABLE work experience" or they can put the work experience on their resume." Newsflash...this just in....PAID work looks even better on a resume!

This is why you see the larger companies generally having PAID internships. They know they are under the spotlight and held to greater scrutiny. Anyone who comes off with the excuse that unpaid interns are justly compensated with college credit and such have or are abusing/manipulating the institution for their financial gain, plain and simple.

Slavery was routinely excused and popular until it took a bloody Civil War to break it's clutches from a nation.
To those who state my previous analogy to slavery in comparison to the NCAA enriching itself, has no basis; well, it has one common denominator. Greed and manipulation of others for one's own gain.

It's amazing at what length people will go to and what excuses they give for that very purpose.
 
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#65
#65
And one more thing about internships that is grossly underestimated. The same companies that would use interns to displace paid workers by making the case that interns get their valuable work experience...what about the value of having a (no-strings-attached) trial run with a promising job prospect? Most internships involve a screening process just like an employment prospect. So, it's not like they are having a box of rocks imposed upon them.

They have the advantage of getting to "kick the tires" of someone they would otherwise have to hire (and pay benefits to) in order to find out for sure if they do indeed fit their needs? A paid internship is a good compromise for both the company and student/intern.

In this case, with regard to student athletes, it's simply a matter of equity. Football athletes are making the program tens of millions of dollars every year, yet their slice of the pie is pittance in comparison. If just one percent of those revenues went to compensate the athletes for their time and skill, why would that be too much to ask?

It would give kids who have lived in poverty all their lives a path to get out of it much more quickly. Again, revenue generating programs will certainly take the value of scholarships into account when considering what percentage players should receive (of commercial revenues; not donations).

If programs aren't bringing money in, then obviously the players won't get much, if anything, apart from their scholarships. That goes for women's athletic programs and all collegiate sports. If your product is in high demand, you reap the benefits. If it's not, you don't. Simple economics. No need to lump football and basketball players together with those on the tennis team or women's volleyball squad.

They aren't commercially viable within or outside of college. Why should sports that are, be penalized or restrained by those that are not? Again, if billions are being paid to watch "amateur" athletics, then how is it truly an amateur establishment? It is not.

That would be like me making $100K per year then telling uncle sam that I don't have to pay any taxes on that because my vocation is a hobby. Uncle Sam doesn't give a damn what label you put on it. If money is being passed around, He's going to get HIS cut!

With that in mind, how in the hell does the NCAA get away with sticking an "Amateur athletics" label on a commercially profitable venture? I hope the courts get flooded with lawsuits against the NCAA and the different conferences. This profiteering racket has gone on long enough. If it got before the Supreme Court, I just about guarantee that they would weigh in favor of the athletes getting more of an equitable return for their services. And it is a service they are providing. It's just a matter of compensation relative to the revenue they generate.
 
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#66
#66
Comparing compensating student athletes with college tuition,room, and board to slavery is just about the dumbest and overboard thing I have ever heard. You raise a few good points that I can't really argue with, but this is nothing at all the same as slavery or even in the same ballpark.
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#67
#67
A lot of small businesses, and some larger ones try to supplement their workforce with interns, which effectively can mean a paid worker being displaced for "free" labor. Not only does that give them an unfair advantage against their competitors in the market, but it puts someone out of a job, and takes food off their table.

It's even more prevalent in this recession. However, Federal labor laws actually forbid the usage of interns in this way. It's a clause stating that "no employer can receive any immediate benefit from the work of an UNPAID intern. " Basically, if you are using an intern in production (that translates into commercial gain), you are violating federal (and usually state) labor laws. It's a case of people trying to abuse the system for their own benefit.

What's really raw about unpaid internships is that the intern has to pay out of pocket expenses (fuel, insurance and wear and tear on their personal vehicles) to travel to an from work. That's on top of being manipulated for free labor.

I can hear the excuses, "well they get VALUABLE work experience" or they can put the work experience on their resume." Newsflash...this just in....PAID work looks even better on a resume!

This is why you see the larger companies generally having PAID internships. They know they are under the spotlight and held to greater scrutiny. Anyone who comes off with the excuse that unpaid interns are justly compensated with college credit and such have or are abusing/manipulating the institution for their financial gain, plain and simple.

Slavery was routinely excused and popular until it took a bloody Civil War to break it's clutches from a nation.
To those who state my previous analogy to slavery in comparison to the NCAA enriching itself, has no basis; well, it has one common denominator. Greed and manipulation of others for one's own gain.

It's amazing at what length people will go to and what excuses they give for that very purpose.

Thank you.
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#68
#68
Most internships involve a screening process just like an employment prospect.

They have the advantage of getting to "kick the tires" of someone they would otherwise have to hire (and pay benefits to) in order to find out for sure if they do indeed fit their needs?

If just one percent of those revenues went to compensate the athletes for their time and skill, why would that be too much to ask?

No need to lump football and basketball players together with those on the tennis team or women's volleyball squad.

Those are called summer camps and evaluation periods.

They live and eat for free as well as get an education.

Title IX says you have to.
 
#69
#69
Comparing compensating student athletes with college tuition,room, and board to slavery is just about the dumbest and overboard thing I have ever heard.
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Only from Massa's point of view is his post overboard. The field "hands" would love to be paid. Trust me, athletes earn their degree just like regular students. Where they differ from regular students is they are also playing these million dollar games for the school (who pays them nothing in return). Which happens to differs little from slavery. Except for the systematic desecration of Africans and the use of widespread rape to create the African-American race of people.
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#70
#70
Only from Massa's point of view is his post overboard. The field "hands" would love to be paid. Trust me, athletes earn their degree just like regular students. Where they differ from regular students is they are also playing these million dollar games for the school (who pays them nothing in return). Which happens to differs little from slavery. Except for the systematic desecration of Africans and the use of widespread rape to create the African-American race of people.
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So you're saying white athletes don't get taken advantage of?
 
#75
#75
Oh, so you're saying it's nothing like slavery.

I got it.

No. I think the current system is a lot like slavery. You give them room and board and then profit many times above what you spent out. Then the boss keeps the all overage. When slavery 'died' the prison system began to take over things on the free labor front and they are prospering nicely as massa did. Never ending supply of free workers to make and keep them rich. YOU said something about white athletes getting exploited. I never separated black and white athletes. They are all being used. Don't mis-qoute me. I ain't a racist either.
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